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Hitch
11-12-01, 04:23 PM
I was wondering what the latest FP(full-preterist) explanation of John 5 and 6 are. They have as much trouble here as they do at the empty Tomb.

Parousia70
11-12-01, 08:26 PM
Hi again Hitch,

Any particular verses you need addressed here or just the both chapters as a whole?

I see no difficulty in either Chapter with the preterist position.

Specifically in John 6, I see plenty of support for the preterist position. For instance:

John 6:4 "Now the Passover, a feast of the Jews, was near."

Does the futurist interprate this to mean the passover was 2000+ years away?

No?

Then why does the futurist interprate verses such as
"James 5:8 "You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near." to mean 2000+ years?

on now to John 6:15
"Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were ABOUT TO come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone."

"About to come and take Him" there's that Greek word again "mello" meaning, as correctly translated here, "about to" just the same as pointed out by odessey and myself in the other thread.
What do you know?, as scripture bears out, Jesus was right, they were at that point "about to"come and take Him just as he percieved. When the Bible says something is "about to happen" , it can be trusted!

As for the "empty tomb", preterists have no trouble with it at all. The preterist knows that tomb is empty for the same reason the futurist uses to explain why Christs "Glorified" body still retained His "Mortal" wounds.

Peace in the Present Christ,
Peter

Hitch
11-13-01, 12:53 AM
Well Pete the point of most of your question escapes me.

But back to John 5 anyway....

In 24 Jesus tells us that when we believe we pass from death into life. this is the same as being translated from darkness into His Kingdom. So notice in v29 Jesus is telling the same folks that even though the believers among them have passed from death unto life there is still resurrection awaiting them, just as there is for those who have done evil.

On to chapter six.

And four times Jesus states plainly that the Resurrection will occur at or on the 'last day'.

Its hard to imagine a statement more plain. But I 've noticed DFs (Dispensational/Furturists) and FPs going to great lengths to avoid a simple straight forward understanding of v39,40,44&54. While there is nothing here that could be considered 'symbolic' there is every reason ,from the local text and context, to expect an face value or normal understanding of our Lord's Word just as you expressed WRT the term 'near'

Hitch
11-13-01, 01:22 AM
If you have answered a post of mine and I havent responded it is because of my lack of technical abilities, I do have trouble finding my way around

Odyssey
11-13-01, 11:51 AM
Even though 'Hitch' has been banned, I thought I would answer his questions and comments anyway, for the sake of others who might want answers to the same questions.

Concerning the 'last day': Both futurists and preterists agree that this even will happen or did happen on the 'last day.' The furturists see this as the 'last day' of the universe. While preterists, on the other hand, see this as the 'last day' of the OC 'heaven and earth.' The problem for the furturist is the clear time statements throughout the NT that the 'last day' was soon approaching. In fact, it had become the 'last hour' (1John 2.18). Therefore, this resurrection must have taken place before that OC world was destroyed in AD 70.

Grace to you,

jak