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Brandan
11-13-01, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Word Walker
The Jews are a special race in the eyes of God. They were chosen by God as special and will always remain so.

I take issue with this statement. Your ideas about the literal Jews stem from your theology which appears to be Dispensationalism..

The Old Covenant Jews are just a picture, or shadow of the people of God but not the believing people of God. The reason they are no longer "special" in the eyes of God today is because, as the people of God, they were rejected by God.

Deuteronomy 31:14-29, (NASB)

14 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him." So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting.
15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent.
16 The Lord said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 "Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ' Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?'
18 "But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.
19 "Now therefore, write this song for yourselves, and teach it to the sons of Israel; put it on their lips, so that this song may be a witness for Me against the sons of Israel.
20 "For when I bring them into the land flowing with milk and honey, which I swore to their fathers, and they have eaten and are satisfied and become prosperous, then they will turn to other gods and serve them, and spurn Me and break My covenant.
21 "Then it shall come about, when many evils and troubles have come upon them, that this song will testify before them as a witness (for it shall not be forgotten from the lips of their descendants); for I know their intent which they are developing today, before I have brought them into the land which I swore."
22 So Moses wrote this song the same day, and taught it to the sons of Israel.
23 Then He commissioned Joshua the son of Nun, and said, "Be strong and courageous, for you shall bring the sons of Israel into the land which I swore to them, and I will be with you."
24 It came about, when Moses finished writing the words of this law in a book until they were complete,
25 that Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 "Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.
27 "For I know your rebellion and your stubbornness; behold, while I am still alive with you today, you have been rebellious against the Lord; how much more, then, after my death?
28 "Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, that I may speak these words in their hearing and call the heavens and the earth to witness against them.
29 "For I know that after my death you will act corruptly and turn from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days, for you will do that which is evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking Him to anger with the work of your hands."

Matthew 8:5-12, (NASB)

5 And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,
6 and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented."
7 Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."
8 But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.
9 "For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it "
10 Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;
12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Lts
11-14-01, 08:58 PM
kermie,
If you do as you stated believe God has not still set aside Jews and the nation of Israel for a specific purpose even now then please explain just how in 6 days the Israeli's defeated 3 arab countries and not only retained the land but one took more land and wiped out the Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian military with such force. All this is 6 days?

Brandan
11-14-01, 09:17 PM
Don't you get it? God's kingdom is not EARTHLY! It's a Spiritual kingdom, and the citizen of Israel is no more a jew than the Hindu down the street. We are the true heirs of God's Kingdom. We are the Spiritual Jews.

Now, as for Israel whooping up on the weaker countries in the Middle East... big deal. The U.S. bombed Afghanistan into oblivion, little ole' Germany about conquered the world, and the Sioux Warriors took out General Custer (or is that custard)!!!!

To base your theology on anything other Scripture is dangerous to begin with! If a man walked up to you, lightning shot out of his eyes, and said that Jesus died for all mankind, I assume by your logic above that you would think he's a "prophet" too... What would you say if all of Israel was blown away in a nuclear holocaust? Would your theology change?

Do you think the Jews were a special people in God's eyes when they were slaughtered by the millions? Do you think the Jews were a special people when Rome marched into Israel and destroyed the temple?

SOLA SCRIPTURA!!!

Lts
11-14-01, 09:33 PM
"Do you think the Jews were a special people in God's eyes when they were slaughtered by the millions?"

Yes I do the world did try to wipe them out and look they not only are still here but have thier own nation


"Do you think the Jews were a special people when Rome marched into Israel and destroyed the temple? "


Once again yes, see you see physical evidence that God still is with the Jews and still has a bigtime purpose for Israel. You have shown by your own posts the times the world has tried to wipe them out yet I look at a map and here again is Israel.

You said "Now, as for Israel whooping up on the weaker countries in the Middle East... big deal."

Well weaker in what way the had larger armies more equipment more abilities to deliver thier weapons along with many many many more devices of mass destruction can you elaberate on how weaker these countries were?

Well if Israel is blown apart by a nuclear attack I would see what came of it first just as I can see what came of the 6 day war of hitlers attempts to destroy the jews and of romans destruction of the temple.


Please think on these things God did give you eyes to see His workings please look :)

Brandan
11-15-01, 04:13 AM
Yes, God gave me eyes, and He told me what ALREADY happened in His Word.

Brandan
11-15-01, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by Lts
"Do you think the Jews were a special people in God's eyes when they were slaughtered by the millions?"

Yes I do the world did try to wipe them out and look they not only are still here but have thier own nationWell looky there. The U.S. tried to wipe out the Native American, and they're still here and have their own sovereign land. What's your point? Remember... Sola Scriptura!



"Do you think the Jews were a special people when Rome marched into Israel and destroyed the temple? "

Once again yes, see you see physical evidence that God still is with the Jews and still has a bigtime purpose for Israel. You have shown by your own posts the times the world has tried to wipe them out yet I look at a map and here again is Israel. Hmmm, yet again, the American Indian is still around, and still have their own sovereign land and government. I guess by your logic, the Native Americans are God's chosen people too..... SOLA SCRIPTURA!


You said "Now, as for Israel whooping up on the weaker countries in the Middle East... big deal."

Well weaker in what way the had larger armies more equipment more abilities to deliver thier weapons along with many many many more devices of mass destruction can you elaberate on how weaker these countries were? They were beat up by Israel, thus, they were weaker militarily..... What's your point? SOLA SCRIPTURA!


Well if Israel is blown apart by a nuclear attack I would see what came of it first just as I can see what came of the 6 day war of hitlers attempts to destroy the jews and of romans destruction of the temple.Would you base your theology on it? hmmm, I'm thinking you probably would. SOLA SCRIPTURA!


Please think on these things God did give you eyes to see His workings please look :) God gave you a Bible. Use it... SOLA SCRIPTURA! (Scripture ALONE is the standard by which all things are to be judged.)

Lts
11-15-01, 06:02 AM
Kermie,
Thats good but what about the questions up there you seem to dance around them.
Kermie we can go into scripture about this but you will interupt scripture the way that best suits your belief, right now in this post I am asking you directly about events that have happened, that all can see the results of, that can not be mis-interupted.

The questions still remain above but also having read your rules this might be considered "harassing" and if it is just tell me you do not wish to continue and hey we will walk away from this topic.

:)

Brandan
11-15-01, 06:05 AM
"Unless I am overcome with testimonies from Scripture or with evident reasons -- for I believe neither the Pope nor the Councils, since they have often erred and contradicted one another -- I am overcome by the Scripture texts which I have adduced, and my conscience is bound by God's Word." - Martin Luther, Interrogation at Diet of Worms - 1521

Open my eyes, that I may behold Wonderful things from Thy law....I will bow down toward Thy holy temple, And give thanks to Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and Thy truth; For Thou hast magnified Thy word according to all Thy name....You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them; and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (Psalm 119:18; Psalm 138:2; II Tim. 3:14-17)

Brandan
11-15-01, 06:07 AM
LTS, I would like it if we focused on Scripture, and not current events for this discussion. Yes, Israel is a nation. I wonder you think the United States is probably Babylon too.... Let's stick with Scripture, ok?

questian
11-15-01, 02:32 PM
As a former Messianic Jewish congregant, I have to say this is the most anti-Semitic discussion I've seen in a while. I'm also a little perturbed that my earlier post in this thread was removed, so I'll say it again: Why don't you ask a Jew if God still thinks they're special? Every Christian ought to know that everything in the OT is taught under Judaism. It's THEIR bible, also called the Tanakh. Kermie, your nonsensical concept of Sola Scriptura disregards those who rely solely on the books of the OT as their means of understanding God. A Jew's idea of Sola Scriptura is not at all contradictory to this particular statement of Martin Luther. I won't even get into what Luther REALLY thought about the Jews. Your mantra response shows a lot less willingness for building bridges of understanding than the Pope himself has offered Israel. Instead of waving flags trying to prove who's more "special" (recalls the disciple's argument about who gets the right hand seat) why not see what can be done to bring people together? This is nothing but vain conceit and something you should be ashamed of. I seem to recall something about "the first shall be last".

Brandan
11-15-01, 04:29 PM
First of all, QUESTIAN, I don't think the Jews are any different than any other people group. I just don't think they should be elevated to "SPECIAL" status. Second, WHY do you care, when you are an Atheist?

I'm saying the Jews at ONE time were a picture of God's people, and not the true people of God. Today, the CHURCH is the true people of God. If the Church is God's chosen people group, then the Jews cannot be it. I really don't CARE what Luther thought of the Jews.

I KNOW the Jews think God thinks they're special. I've spoken to many Jews, and they all think that it seems. I'm telling you that I don't think God favors the Jewish people any more than joe blow down the street.

Questian, you're not even a Christian, nor do you subscribe to Christian philosophy. So, if you don't mind, I ask that you kindly leave this thread.

1. The nation of Israel is called the people of God. Romans 9:1-5, Exodus 3:7-10, 2 Chronicles 7:14

2. The nation of Israel, as the people of God, are rejected by God. Matthew 8:5-12, Deuteronomy 31:14-29

3. Tearing out the branches (Israelites) from the vine (the people of God) does not make much sense if the Israelites were as a whole the true people of God. John 15:1-9

4. The same description of the Israelites as the people of God is given to the believers in the New Covenant era. They are the true people of God. 1 Peter 2:4-10

Hebrews 3:7-4:2

1. The redemption that Israel experienced by crossing through the Red Sea was only a picture of true redemption. They were, as a whole, rejected for their unbelief.

2. The Israelites under Moses had the gospel preached to them and they rejected it.


2 Corinthians 3:7-18

1. The Mosaic Covenant is described as the ministry that brought death.

2. The Israelites are described as having the veil of unbelief over their faces whenever they read the Old Covenant (Mosaic Law).


Romans 11

1. Only a small portion (remnant) of the nation of Israel were really believers.

2. It was prophesied that Israel would never, except for the remnant, be a believing people. Isaiah 6:8-13 (quoted in Matthew 13), Deuteronomy 39:1-4 (quoted in Romans 11)

If the OC is with literal Israel, and the NC is again with literal Israel, what covenant does Jesus have with the Church?

God chose the Jewish people and formed them into a great nation. He did not choose them because they were either many or mighty for in reality they were both weak and few in number. He chose them because He set His sovereign love upon them.

God gave the Jewish nation special privileges that no other nation had, a specific covenant that bound them to Himself in a special way, and preached the gospel unto them in types and shadows. When Moses wanted to humble Israel by reminding her of her unique place before God he said: "What other nation is so great as to have their gods so near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today (Deut. 4:7, 8)."

Israel was indeed the "Apple of God's eye." They were truly in every sense of the word God's "chosen" nation.

Just as God sovereignly chose to bring this nation to Himself, He chose to harden their hearts and bring salvation to the Gentiles (Ex. 4:21; Isa. 63:17; John 12:39; Rom. 9:11-33).

Romans 11:17-21, (17) But if some of the branches [some Jews by birth] were broken off, and you, being a wild olive [Gentiles], were grafted in among them [became true Jews, or the true circumcision, as Paul says in Romans 2:26-29] and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree [the root of the olive tree is the covenant God made with Abraham and his true descendants, and to become a partaker of this root is to became a beneficiary of salvation, the promise made to Abraham and his descendants that he would be their God and they would be his people; if you are grafted in -if you become a part of true Israel - that's yours], (18) do not be arrogant [you Gentiles] toward the branches [the natural Jews]; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. (19) You will say then [you Gentiles], "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." (20) Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief [so we see that faith is what makes you a Jew or not, which, in view of 2:26-27, means the essence of Law - keeping it in faith], but you stand by your faith [you have a part in this rich root of the promise of God to be your God if you believe in the Messiah, Jesus Christ, as Paul said in Galatians 3:7, "It is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham" - you stand only by faith; that's the essence of being a true Jew and part of the Israel of God]. Do not be conceited, but fear; (21) for if God did not spare the natural branches [Jews have been broken off and condemned for unbelief], He will not spare you either [you can be as deceived as they were about being a true Jew if you try to cling to this tree without the Spirit changing your heart].

Jep
11-15-01, 05:02 PM
Hmmm.....interesting here that everyone is a little right. But Kermie is the one nailing this to the wall. It’s very true, the Jews were God’s chosen people up until the time that they rejected Him in His fleshly manifestation. The church was then grafted in to assume that position.

Paul’s writings in the 11th chapter of Romans (as Kermie pointed out) teach his Gentile readers that they are grafted onto (or into) the tree or root: Romans 11:17 “If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, ‘Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.’ 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.”

Paul is using an analogy to communicate that many of the Jews were cut off from the tree and the believing Gentiles were then grafted into their place, Note that Paul is not saying that the Gentiles were grafted into the Jews or the Jewish nation, or even the Jewish faith. To understand what Paul is communicating in these passages of scripture is first to understand from what (what tree--what root) the Jews were cut off. From that understanding we can grasp what the Gentiles were grafted into since they were grafted into the very place from whence the Jews were cut off. Were the Jews cut off from other Jews?

No, they continued to live with other Jews. Were they cut off from the Jewish nation? No, they continued to live in Judea. Were they cut off from the Jewish faith? No they continued in their faith. Indeed what they were cut off from was the kingdom of God offered them through their Messiah Jesus Christ. They were cut off from the new covenant.

What then, are the Gentiles grafted into? Neo-Messianic Jews believe they were grafted into the Jewish nation, faith, or Jewish heritage. However, what the Gentiles were grafted into has nothing at all to do with Jews, Judaism, the nation of Israel or anything else with a Jewish flavor. The Gentiles were grafted into exactly the same thing the Jews were cut off from: the kingdom of God. Nothing more, nothing less.

Today it matters little whether one was a Jew, Gentile, Democrat, Communist or cannibal before they accept Christ as their Savior. They are grafted in if they accept him, the branch is cut off if they do not. Why weren’t all the branches cut off? Because today I have many Jewish brothers who accept Christ as Messiah.

JesusFreak2K1
11-15-01, 05:44 PM
Just one question.....did God abandon the jews while they were slaves for 400 years to the egyptians?? NO...Moses, with God's blessing.....rescued the Jews. God will rescue the jews again....it is my opinion that while He may turn away His eyes, He is still their God and they are His people. His plan is greater than that. I believe that God is going to bring the "jews" back into the fold in due time. If you rule out the "jews", then you may as well give up on the gentiles too. God is not that fickle.

Just one girls opinion.........love ya'll!!!!!!!!!!:D

Lts
11-15-01, 07:23 PM
-- New King James
Romans 11:25-26 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

Jep
11-15-01, 07:33 PM
LTS:

LOL....You beat me to that scripture. No fair...Good one though. Paul says that all of Israel will be saved. How will this happen? I have no idea, but it will.

Brandan
11-15-01, 08:26 PM
The question is... WHO is Israel? It certainly isn't the modern day Israel, I tell you for sure. Who is Israel? Israel is the true people of God who live by faith - Abraham's seed.

Galatians 3:7, (NASB), Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

The point is, Chuck... Israel is not a "literal" nation, but a Spiritual nation which the gentiles were grafted into.

As Paul said in Galatians 3:7, "It is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham" - you stand only by faith; that's the essence of being a true Jew and part of the Israel of God

Oh, believe me... Israel is alive today, and STILL the apple of God's eye. But it's not that shadow of a nation that resides in the middle east. It's His glorious Church which encompasses the world and spans all redemptive time.

The Whyman
11-15-01, 09:05 PM
Romans 11 is quite explicit concerning Israel:


I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Now if the fall of them the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

"But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal. " Gods covenant with Israel remains because of the remanant that remain loyal.

[B]I highly reccomend these articles concerning this subject: http://www.shema.com/romans11.htm and http://www.shema.com/14facts.htm

Lts
11-15-01, 09:07 PM
Brandan anyone that accepts Christ as thier Savior is saved if you want to call that "Israel" fine with me. I am not saying that Israel (the nation) gets into heaven first what I am stating is the nation of Israel still has a purpose in God's plan today and that is evident in that He is preserving both Jews and thier nation He has always left a reminent and they have a purpose in God's plan yes even today.

In Revelation it even refers to the tribes of Israel
Also in Revelation it describes the 12 gates in heaven each having the name of one of the 12 tribes of Israel written on it

And

-- New King James
Romans 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


But brandan you still take scripture and turn it to mean what you want just like the other topic about woo and drag your own version translated "elko" as draw yet you say it indeed is not draw but drag the question is there as here draw drag we know to have 2 seperate meanings but you chose not to accept the translation in your own version so the very same thing does not stop you with the Israel either you will just take and apply the meaning that best suits your belief.

This is why I asked you about the 6 day war this is tangable thing it can not be denighed that Israel who was the least as far a a military force in this war so decisively beat 3 other countries in just 6 days and gained more land from it. From a military stand point this could never have happened yet it did why?

Also as a side note you used native american indians as a comparison but unfortunitly they lost all they had thier land thier culture many of the exsisting tribes no longer even exsist as a people the rest live on reservations set up by the government.


You are so right in all your posts about God's word but God shows us everyday by circumstances, situations and events of just how importian His word is.

Anyway knowing how intense your getting with this I will end the discussion on this topic at this.

Odyssey
11-16-01, 11:54 AM
Kermie is right.

The title of "God's people" was first given to the nation of Israel (see Deuteronomy 27:9; 11 Samuel 7:24) and yet, because they did not keep the covenant, God told Hosea to name his son (who was symbolic of Israel) "Lo-Ammi," which means "not my people." Under the inspiration of Holy Spirit, however, Paul wrote that Christians are the people of God. In II Corinthians, he wrote, "For we are the temple of the living God . . . and I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (6:16, NASV). And in his letter to Titus, he wrote, "(Jesus Christ) gave Himself on behalf of us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity and cleanse for Himself a special people, zealous for good works" (2:14).

Not only was the nation of Israel the people of God, but they were the "chosen" people of God. That is to say, out of all of humanity God chose them to be his people, for no other reason than for His good pleasure. "Jehovah your God has chosen you to be His own treasure, out of all the people on the face of the earth. Jehovah did not set His love on you or choose you because you were more in number than any people, for you [were] the fewest of all peoples. But because Jehovah loved you" (Deuteronomy 7:6-8; cf Deuteronomy I 0: 15; 14.2; Isaiah 43:20-2 1). Nevertheless, because of their disobedience, they were rejected. "Refuse silver, they will call [Israel], for Jehovah rejected them" (Jeremiah 6:30). And '~Because you (Israel) have forsaken the Lord, He has forsaken you" (11 Chronicles 24:20, NASV; see also Deuteronomy 31:17; 11 Kings 17:20, Psalm 78:59). However, in the New Covenant Age, Christians are called "the chosen people of God" (Colossians 3:12). And Peter wrote, "But you are an elect (or chosen) race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession ... who [were] then not a people, but now [are] God's people" (I Peter 2:9-10).

Christians are also called the wife or bride of Christ. In 11 Corinthians 11:2, Paul wrote, "I Joined you to one husband, a pure virgin to present to Christ." In his letter to the Ephesians, within the context of husbands and wives (5-22-33), he wrote, " 'For this shall a man leave the father and the mother of him and cleave to the wife of him, and the two shall be for one flesh.' This mystery is great, but I say as to Christ and as to the church" (vv. 31-32). At one time Israel had this name (see Isaiah 54:5-6; Jeremiah 2-2; Ezekiel 16-32; Hosea 1:2), but because of her "adulteries," God said, "And I saw, when all the causes for which the apostate Israel committed adultery I sent her away and gave a writ of divorce to her" (Jeremiah 3:8). And in Hosea, "(S)he [is] not my wife, and I [am] not her husband" (Hosea 2:2).

Lastly, Christians are also called the "children of God." This is clear in Paul's letter to the Galatians. There he wrote, "Know then that those of faith, these are the sons of Abraham" (3-7). Later, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (3:26). And later still, in contrasting the people of both covenants, he wrote, "But, brothers, we are children of promise, according to Isaac" (4:28). Again we know that Israel had this name (see II Chronicles 20:7. Psalm 105:61 Isaiah 41:8), but, because of their disobedience, they lost that privilege. Just as it is written "For they are not all Israel who are from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham's seed ... it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children Of Promise are regarded as seed" (Romans 9:6-8; NASV). Paul also wrote that the physical Jew wasn't really a Jew, but that the Christian was. "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code" (Romans 2:28-29, NIV; cf. Philippians 3:31; Colossians 2:11). What Paul meant in these passages is that the Christians have not replaced the nation of Israel (as some teach), but in every aspect they are in reality the people of God because they are in Christ, the true 'promised seed' (see Galatians 3:16).

With this information we can see that God's people are no longer just one nation. But in the New Covenant Age of Christ, "There is not Jew nor Greek, is not slave nor free, is not male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28-29; cf. I Corinthians 12:13; Colossians 3:11).

Grace to you,

jak

Brandan
11-16-01, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Lts
Anyway knowing how intense your getting with this I will end the discussion on this topic at this.

Crack me up Chuck! I don't think I'm getting intense, but if you think I am, you really don't know what INTENSE is.