PDA

View Full Version : Separation of Church and State



GRANTM
11-26-01, 02:21 PM
The Western Nations (Western Europe, North America eg) are generally considered to be the Wealthiest , they are also considered as Christian Nations. However Most have either direct or indirect laws or understandings on religions and / or religious tolerances.

However The countries that try for a relious singularity do not usually fare as well. These Include some Christtian Countries

Is It Just A coincedence?

Or is it that because all religions can interact that we can adapt much better with-out fear to grow and prosper?

What do you Think?

My feelings are toward the latter.

Andrew
11-28-01, 12:11 AM
I dont quite understand your question.

But I just want to say that most if not all religions (except maybe extreme ones likes fundamental Islam) can co-exist and interact becos their source is the same - Satan. Put it another way, they all bring people away from Jesus Christ and into the pit.

Most mature Christians will tell you that Christianity is not a religion. It is basically about a relationship with Christ Jesus. It is about freedom (non-religious/not legalistic), peace and joy.

I dont know of any Christian nation in the sense that most nations have religious tolerance - multi-religious. But I do know that where the gospel has penetrated and sprouted roots, the people there have prospered, as opposed to remaining backward, oppressed, depraved.

just some thots. :)

GRANTM
11-28-01, 12:55 PM
Greetings Andrew, How is everythig in the Lion City?


[B]{I dont quite understand your question.}

For My personal quest of trying to understand life.

I am trying to get a grasp of why all the disparities between nations. Why for (eg) Countries such as Singapore, Your area,
and mine( Canada) and others, Who Politically and with laws, encourage racial and religious tolerance, and allow the practice of many and all respected religions as long as they respect each other, seem to be much more prosperous and peaceful than Countries with No religion or are Mono-Religious.

Quote:
{But I just want to say that most if not all religions (except maybe extreme ones likes fundamental Islam) can co-exist and interact}

Singapore is a shing example of that . and I concur especially after what the country has gone through from ww2 , alliance with
Malay, sebsequet withdrawl, formal Indepepence.

Quote:
{ becos their source is the same - Satan. Put it another way, they all bring people away from Jesus Christ and into the pit.}

As a skeptic of Religion, But not God, I am also a skeptic of satan.
But believe it is mankinds insecurity that is the reason behind the radicals. that pervert religions, to act as a self-justification. for there own actions and thus their lot in life.

Quote:
{Most mature Christians will tell you that Christianity is not a religion. It is basically about a relationship with Christ Jesus. It is about freedom (non-religious/not legalistic), peace and joy.}

Do You mean by that the concept of Christianity is like an Umbrella whereby Catholicism, Anglicanism (Episcopalian) Baptists Etc are its religions ?

Quote:
{I dont know of any Christian nation in the sense that most nations have religious tolerance - multi-religious. But I do know that where the gospel has penetrated and sprouted roots, the people there have prospered, as opposed to remaining backward, oppressed, depraved.}

I disagree, I think that Compared to the number of world Countries there are , truly Multi-Religious are very Few. eg Many of the poorest countries Eg Some South American Coutries, Predominately Cathloic with only lip service paid to other ideals and then under strict controls and then we look at some mid- east countries
Under Islamic rule the same applies. or for even more extreme example, Afghanistan. the more ruthless the Dictatorship the more ruthless the cosequences.


Quote:
{just some thots.}

Just keep those thoughts Coming,
Thank you for your Input.

In Singapore, with reference to the" 5 Harmonies" ( I think I have it right if not please correct A very good Document/ philosophy) Is this a part of the Constitution of Singapore?

Corbin
11-28-01, 07:59 PM
But I just want to say that most if not all religions (except maybe extreme ones likes fundamental Islam) can co-exist and interact becos their source is the same - Satan. Put it another way, they all bring people away from Jesus Christ and into the pit.

So you believe that "satan" is the source of all these other religions?

I seriosly doubt that "satan" is the reason for anything. Don't you think it's far more probable that these religions were developed to bring the people together, and explain the things they did not know? I think that's a far more reasonable explanation for these religions, yours included.



Most mature Christians will tell you that Christianity is not a religion. It is basically about a relationship with Christ Jesus. It is about freedom (non-religious/not legalistic), peace and joy.

So how exactly do you explain that several buddhists, (some of which I know) also claim that they have a relationship with their god(s)? I mean, several religions all claim the same things. How are we supposed to distinguish between one of these relgions, and christianity? You are not making any really unique claims or anything.

As far as freedom goes, I believe that you are not as free as you should be. You base your life around things you cannot see, hear, or touch. And why? Because you don't wish to go to "hell".

GRANTM
11-28-01, 11:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Corbin

Greetings Corbin:

Finished shovelling the driveway yet , We're supposed have freezing rain Tomorrow, ah well

Quote:
{So how exactly do you explain that several buddhists, (some of which I know) also claim that they have a relationship with their god(s)? I mean, several religions all claim the same things. How are we supposed to distinguish between one of these relgions, and christianity? You are not making any really unique claims or anything.}

Please consider this, It is the same God, only seen through different eyes. This is why when we throw off the Dogmas and trappings , the Basics come out. Peace Love Understanding and a
further appreciation of our fellow Man. And therefore God.

An offense or crime against anyone because of religious beliefs
no matter by whom or to whom is against God.

How are you to make your distinction? you ask That is to look inside yourself. and find the positives that will lead you. Which path you take, is up to you, nobody can make it for you, For you see through your eyes.

The biggest problems that arise with religion , is when one proponent tries to "show up" another religion for what that person feels it has not got, this is the negative side. These start off like little spats, But religions, being predominatly based on faith, Get more people involved ect, and so forth that in the end we have lost all rational thought, Wars start.

Whereas I believe that When you meet Your Fellow travellers in life on their path wich crosses yours hold your lantern high, showing the positives of the path you choose, for when you cast negative light you have only dimished your light on your path. Which only you can travel.

Brandan
11-30-01, 08:44 AM
http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=133

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36)

In this explanation Jesus makes it clear that there is a definite separation between His kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. The fact that Jesus had not allowed His disciples to defend Him was evidence enough of this fact. Christ's kingdom is heavenly and seeks the reconciliation of the sinner to God, but civil and world governments are of this earth and seek for power and supremacy.

The separation of church and state is also taught in 2 Corinthians 5:20 where the Christian is referred to as an ambassador - "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ." An ambassador is one who represents one country to another. He does not become involved in the government of the other country but seeks the welfare of his own. Likewise, the Christian does not become involved in the affairs of earthly governments but represents the heavenly kingdom to them. He is in this world but is not of this world (John 17:16). His work is spiritual, not political. His responsibility is to help the people of this world to give their allegiance to the heavenly kingdom of Christ.

A key passage of Scripture in helping us to understand the relationship of the church to the state is Romans 13. It is significant that in this chapter there is no instruction given to the Christian concerning his involvement in the affairs of the state. Neither is there any teaching given to the state for the Christian to follow. This Scripture is solely given to the believer to instruct him in his obligation to and his attitude toward the civil authorities over him. He is taught to pay taxes, to honor, and to obey.

The purpose of the state, as taught in Romans 13, is seen to be in conflict with the teachings of Jesus to His disciples. In verse 4 we read, "For he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." In contrast, Jesus told His disciples, "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). When the soldiers came to John the Baptist and inquired concerning what they must do to repent, he said, "Do violence to no man" (Luke 3:14). In Romans 12:19 we read, "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." With purposes so diverse, it is impossible to be consistent while serving in both capacities. God is calling the church to be separate from the state.

The separation of church and state is not an Old Testament doctrine. God separated Abraham from his own people to make of him a great nation (Genesis 12:2). As a nation, God gave His people laws concerning the restraining of evil and the punishment of the evildoer. He placed a sword in their hand and commanded them to use it in bringing judgment upon other ungodly nations (Deuteronomy 20:17). Israel's civil law demanded life for life, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth (Deuteronomy 19:21). God also charged Israel with a spiritual ministry. He worked through them to reconcile other peoples to Himself. In this sense, the Jewish nation embodied both the responsibility of an earthly kingdom and the responsibility of the heavenly kingdom.

In the change of covenants the role of church and state have been separated. No longer is it the responsibility of God's people to wield God's sword of vengeance against His enemies. No longer is it the responsibility of the state to be the standard bearer of truth. There are now two entities with diverse goals and interests. Failure to see this difference between the two covenants leads to confusion and misapplication of this vital New Testament doctrine.

The separation of church and state reaches into the practical expressions of everyday life. For example: Should the Christian participate in the military when Jesus has commanded him to love his enemies? Should he be an officer of the law when he is commanded not to resist evil? Should a Christian hold political offices and vote when he is an ambassador of another country? Should the Christian seek to coerce his government for rights by lobbying or various forms of protest when his concern is the salvation of souls? The consistent answer is no. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18).

Click here (http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=133) to read the rest of this article....

Andrew
11-30-01, 09:00 AM
Hi GRANTM,

Everything's fine in the Lion city. Sorry for the late reply. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

Firstly, Singapore enjoys peace and prosperity becos of good government. it's as simple as that. of course, i thank God that he gave us a good and honest government that came to power and has remained in power after we were kicked out of Malaysia.

The govt believes very strongly in religious and racial harmony, and will not tolerate any disruption to that law. the old guard has been through tough and scary times of racial riots, and will do anything to never allow it to happen again.

the second thing is that the govt is very committed to progress and economic development. it has no choice, becos we are such a tiny nation and have no natural resources whatsover. so the emphasis is on good education, meritocracy and economic development.

but beyond all this, i also must add that becos Christianity has been allowed to flourish here (within laws of course) Singapore is blessed. put it simply thousands of Christians have and continue to pray for Singapore's peace and prosperity, for eg during rallies like the Festival of Praise.

as for countries with no religion, as you mention, it wld mean to me no Christianity also, which wld mean God/Jesus is ignored, which wld mean the blessings cannot come or are very limited.

as for countries with only one religion, i believe strongly that if it is true Christianity, it wld be extremely peaceful and prosperous.

--------------
Do You mean by that the concept of Christianity is like an Umbrella whereby Catholicism, Anglicanism (Episcopalian) Baptists Etc are its religions ?
---------------
no i mean when you become a born again Christian, its not so much abt attending church, praying five times a day, reading 10 chapters of your Bible a day, etc, etc, giving this up, giving that up etc etc that's religion or religiosity (what religions of the world are abt) buts its simply about getting to know Jesus Christ in a very personal way. As that relationshiop develops, your behaviour/lifestyle will take care of itself effortlessly by the power of the Holy Spirit in the believer.

multi-religious countries. you said there arent many. what abt the US, Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Argentina, etc...basically any country that does not impose a one-religion rule and where the people are allowed to practise their own religion, as long as it does not violate the laws. taht's my definition

5 harmonies? dont know anything abt that. just that we have the religious and racial harmony bill here.

God bless

Andrew
11-30-01, 09:17 AM
Corbin,

--------------
So you believe that "satan" is the source of all these other religions?
----------------
Yes of course. It's very simple. That which is of God will point to Jesus and glorify him. If it points to Syed BaBa, Buddha, Prophet Muhammed, Goddess of Mercy, Mary etc...then it's not of God. It's either God or Satan. there's no sitting on the fence. Any true-blue born again mature Christian will tell you the same thing.

-------------
So how exactly do you explain that several buddhists, (some of which I know) also claim that they have a relationship with their god(s)?
---------------
Simple. they dont. i live in Singapore in the suburbs, where Buddhism and Taoism is strong. in the apartment block that i'm staying in, where there are abt say 100 units, i wld say that 90% of them are either Bhuddists or Toaists. every other block is basically the same. and during the ghost festival, almost everyone is burning something to pacify the demons. if there's any relationship, its a relationship with demons, and a fearful relationship. if you wld look at the some of the idols they have you'd wonder why they wanted to have any relationship with such an ugly/scary thing.

------------------
As far as freedom goes, I believe that you are not as free as you should be.
--------------
OH boy you have NO IDEA!! and I honestly wish to God you'll experience the freedom in Christ yourself someday.

------------
You base your life around things you cannot see, hear, or touch. And why?
--------------
Absurd. I base my life around things i can see touch and hear too. Like my wife! But life's just 100-fold better with Christ in you!

----------
Because you don't wish to go to "hell".
-----------
Do you? *LOL

:D

GRANTM
11-30-01, 12:30 PM
Thank You Kermie For this Input.

Quote:
{... but civil and world governments are of this earth and seek for power and supremacy. }
A rather cynical view of Gov't Though. a variation then of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly

Quote
... "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ. ... His work is spiritual, not political. His responsibility is to help the people of this world to give their allegiance to the heavenly kingdom of Christ...

Kermie, maybe I'm Reading more into this than I should, but How can this be possible? Eg. as an Ambassador for Christ and what follows, Is that not playing the Political game and therefore thrying to Influence governmental policy say as an example in the U.S.A the lobby for prayer in School. or other doctrines . Where do you feel is the line.?( Eg) The firced enslavement of peoples in the new world under the name of religion ( Which by the way I fell was the perversion of religion by the heads of state at that time to justify their actions,) And The pressure on Totalitarian governments To allow for more religious freedoms.

key passage of Scripture in helping us to understand the relationship of the church to the state is Romans 13. It is significant that in this chapter there is no instruction given to the Christian concerning his involvement in the affairs of the state. Neither is there any teaching given to the state for the Christian to follow. This Scripture is solely given to the believer to instruct him in his obligation to and his attitude toward the civil authorities over him. He is taught to pay taxes, to honor, and to obey.

Great point .


Quote:
{The purpose of the state, as taught in Romans 13, is seen to be in conflict with the teachings of Jesus to His disciples. In verse 4 we read, "For he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." In contrast, Jesus told His disciples, "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). When the soldiers came to John the Baptist and inquired concerning what they must do to repent, he said, "Do violence to no man" (Luke 3:14). In Romans 12:19 we read, "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." With purposes so diverse, it is impossible to be consistent while serving in both capacities. God is calling the church to be separate from the state.}

I just wish it Universally accepted That the State should stay out of religion as well and not use religion as a cause celebre to justify its actions, or use as a scapegoat.

Quote:
{The separation of church and state is not an Old Testament doctrine. God separated Abraham from his own people to make of him a great nation (Genesis 12:2). As a nation, God gave His people laws concerning the restraining of evil and the punishment of the evildoer. He placed a sword in their hand and commanded them to use it in bringing judgment upon other ungodly nations (Deuteronomy 20:17). Israel's civil law demanded life for life, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth (Deuteronomy 19:21). God also charged Israel with a spiritual ministry. He worked through them to reconcile other peoples to Himself. In this sense, the Jewish nation embodied both the responsibility of an earthly kingdom and the responsibility of the heavenly kingdom.

In the change of covenants the role of church and state have been separated. No longer is it the responsibility of God's people to wield God's sword of vengeance against His enemies. No longer is it the responsibility of the state to be the standard bearer of truth. There are now two entities with diverse goals and interests. Failure to see this difference between the two covenants leads to confusion and misapplication of this vital New Testament doctrine.}


I'M wondering if this has more to do with civilization changing
and religion adapting.

Consider that at that time populations were more nomadic most Peoples, were of a tribal or clan orientation , the limited trade with Neighbours was mostly on a barter system. so when times became tough drought, lack of food and shelter, it would definatly be necessary to protect yourself, or cause war for your very survival.

Quote:
{The separation of church and state reaches into the practical expressions of everyday life. For example: Should the Christian participate in the military when Jesus has commanded him to love his enemies? Should he be an officer of the law when he is commanded not to resist evil? Should a Christian hold political offices and vote when he is an ambassador of another country? Should the Christian seek to coerce his government for rights by lobbying or various forms of protest when his concern is the salvation of souls? The consistent answer is no. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:17, 18).}

This requires a little more pondering on my part part, but I will reserve my right to asK you about it Latter if you don't mind.




lick here (http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=133) to read the rest of this article.... [/B][/QUOTE]

GRANTM
11-30-01, 01:22 PM
Greetings Andrew:

Quote;
{Everything's fine in the Lion city. Sorry for the late reply. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.}

Hey Andrew, I wish all I had to day all day was to chat on the net but realities are that I can't Either.

Quote:
(Firstly, Singapore enjoys peace and prosperity becos of good government. it's as simple as that. of course, i thank God that he gave us a good and honest government that came to power and has remained in power after we were kicked out of Malaysia.

The govt believes very strongly in religious and racial harmony, and will not tolerate any disruption to that law. the old guard has been through tough and scary times of racial riots, and will do anything to never allow it to happen again.}


the second thing is that the govt is very committed to progress and economic development. it has no choice, becos we are such a tiny nation and have no natural resources whatsover. so the emphasis is on good education, meritocracy and economic development.}

This is exactly What I am trying to understand, why after WW2 counties such as Singapore are floutishing with such energy, and yet other countries, that really have greater advantages, (Size,
Natural Resources, etc. are not, Especially in your corner of the World.

Your Governments have had many choices, to go and as you indicated have tried a few( Federeation with Malaya) And maybe I am off on the wrong tangent, But when I look at a country such as Indonesia and their Constant Turmoil, or Malayasia, Which in my opinion outside of, Kuala Lumpour , is hurting, How did the
Government make the "right choices" so as not to be in constant turmoil elsewhere in your region,


Quote:

but beyond all this, i also must add that becos Christianity has been allowed to flourish here (within laws of course) Singapore is blessed. put it simply thousands of Christians have and continue to pray for Singapore's peace and prosperity, for eg during rallies like the Festival of Praise.

as for countries with no religion, as you mention, it wld mean to me no Christianity also, which wld mean God/Jesus is ignored, which wld mean the blessings cannot come or are very limited.

as for countries with only one religion, i believe strongly that if it is true Christianity, it wld be extremely peaceful and prosperous.}


Hence my endevour,Is it Christianity or the combination of relions that effect the right choices.?



--------------
Do You mean by that the concept of Christianity is like an Umbrella whereby Catholicism, Anglicanism (Episcopalian) Baptists Etc are its religions ?
---------------

Quote:
no i mean when you become a born again Christian, its not so much abt attending church, praying five times a day, reading 10 chapters of your Bible a day, etc, etc, giving this up, giving that up etc etc that's religion or religiosity (what religions of the world are abt) buts its simply about getting to know Jesus Christ in a very personal way. As that relationshiop develops, your behaviour/lifestyle will take care of itself effortlessly by the power of the Holy Spirit in the believer.


Thank You for the Carification. It helps a lot toward a better understand and appreciation of where a person is coming from
rather than assuming that that is what he meant.


Quote:
multi-religious countries. you said there arent many. what abt the US, Canada, Australia, Malaysia, Argentina, etc...basically any country that does not impose a one-religion rule and where the people are allowed to practise their own religion, as long as it does not violate the laws. taht's my definition


Great Definition, Alas I fear that the majority is just Llip-Service
to Local or tribal religions; I hope I am wrong but as of now my count is 30 % True religous diversity, and 70% mono-religious or none, or although they say they are on paper but in practice not even close.

Quote:
5 harmonies? dont know anything abt that. just that we have the religious and racial harmony bill here.

Great Law! to bad that their had to a necessity for it.

Andrew
11-30-01, 07:53 PM
Dear GRANTM,
---------------------
Hence my endevour,Is it Christianity or the combination of relions that effect the right choices.?
----------------------

As a Christian, i wld have to say neither actually, but God's grace. The Bible does say that all authority is ordained by God, that includes governments, and that we shld submit to these authorities over us, be they our boss, the traffic cop or our govt.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Now u might ask me abt what govts like the Taliban. Well, when Paul wrote this, he was still under the Roman rule, in chains, under kings/soldiers that killed Christians. but let's no go into that. (the context of this passage is more about obeying laws and authorities for our own good, lest we end up heavily fined, in jail, canned or hanged!)

My point here in response to your question is that beyond what we see as physical governments/pol parties, there is the spiritual side to authorities in power over nations God.

so where Singapore is concerned, the ruling party wld not be there in the first place if not for God, who ordained them to be there as Rom 13 says. and it wld not have been ruling with wisdom if God did not give that wisdom, if God did not send missionaries to our land a long time ago, and set up churches, that was given the wisdom of God by God to pray for their leaders as instructed in the Bible, etc, etc. ie it is all God's grace.

Speaking of praying for our leaders, this is a high priority and most mature Christians in Singapore know that. that's why prayers and blessings are always said for our leaders in rallies,praise festivals and even in churches. (notice in the verse below that it is listed first and that the purpose is simple: to live quietly in peace)

1 Tim 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

God bless

GRANTM
12-01-01, 12:46 PM
Greetings Andrew:

[QUOTE]

{as a Christian, i wld have to say neither actually, but God's grace. The Bible does say that all authority is ordained by God, that includes governments, and that we shld submit to these authorities over us, be they our boss, the traffic cop or our govt.}

I have to agree it is by Gods grace, For when it comes to duty as a citizen to vote I ask for Gods Help in detereming what exactly the Issues are and mean and study these issues, Then I cast My Vote,

Quote:
{Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Now u might ask me abt what govts like the Taliban. Well, when Paul wrote this, he was still under the Roman rule, in chains, under kings/soldiers that killed Christians. but let's no go into that. (the context of this passage is more about obeying laws and authorities for our own good, lest we end up heavily fined, in jail, canned or hanged!)}

I agree new Friend that is for someplace else at another time


Quote:
{My point here in response to your question is that beyond what we see as physical governments/pol parties, there is the spiritual side to authorities in power over nations God.}

Agreed, I feel that there has to be. Hence my endevour For effects and affects.

Quote:
{so where Singapore is concerned, the ruling party wld not be there in the first place if not for God, who ordained them to be there as Rom 13 says. and it wld not have been ruling with wisdom if God did not give that wisdom, if God did not send missionaries to our land a long time ago, and set up churches, that was given the wisdom of God by God to pray for their leaders as instructed in the Bible, etc, etc. ie it is all God's grace.

Speaking of praying for our leaders, this is a high priority and most mature Christians in Singapore know that. that's why prayers and blessings are always said for our leaders in rallies,praise festivals and even in churches. (notice in the verse below that it is listed first and that the purpose is simple: to live quietly in peace)

1 Tim 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;}

Amen to That , May Singapore always be a beacon of light toward racial tolerance and understanding and thuslyto the one true peace of Body and Spirit.

Andrew
12-02-01, 10:54 AM
Thank you! you are truly polite, sincere and diplomatic, and understanding. i normally get insulted in a thread by the third or fourth reply. then i'd get frustrated and do the same, but not so with you *LOL :D

God bless you too.

GRANTM
12-02-01, 09:17 PM
Thank-you Andrew, for those remarks. It proves that when two peoples paths cross, and they treat each other with respect , regardless of beliefs, Good things can happen.