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View Full Version : Should Pastors / Elders be paid a full time salary?



Brandan
12-05-01, 09:13 AM
I believe all sorts of problems arise when churches begin to pay their elders and pastors full time salaries. A very well written article by Darryl Erkel outlines these here: Should Pastors Be Salaried? : A Closer Look At A Popular Tradition (http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=88)

Why don't you read the article and post what you think here? :D

Odyssey
12-05-01, 02:33 PM
Kermie,

I couldn't agree more.

Grace to you,

jak

Liamsdad
12-05-01, 04:35 PM
:)

UH OH!! Here we go again!!

Should pastors be bi-vocational then? Should they not provide for thier families? Should they starve to death?

In order for a shepherd to properly study, visit the sick, the elderly, home bound, a pastor needs time. I know from personal expierence it is hard for me to study and to do it well, while working at the same time. Plus I spend time with my wife and son.

BUT, WAIT, let me recant I havent read the above article, maybe I should.

I do disagree with congregations buying their pastors huge fancy vehicles, and big fine homes, I also disagree with pictures of pastors and their families in the foyers of their churches. OY I have seen them.

I believe in a modest salary, not super duper "preacher package with all the bells and whistles". Not some $85,000 a year deal, laugh if you like I know of them. Modest, yes, but not near millionares.

Liamsdad
12-05-01, 04:39 PM
Okay, so I read the article, and I agree with it.

But I am still in favor of modest salaries, not huge contract deals.

If a pastors heart is in the right place, he will pastor despite the pay.

Odyssey
12-05-01, 04:49 PM
And this brings up another issue. I have seen, time and again, how a person, claiming that god has 'called' them to a 'church' and then, because of some quarrel with the deacons, they leave. I have seen them leave because they don't get a salary. All the time claiming that god 'called' them to that place! Go figure.

Grace to you,

jak

Andrew
01-04-02, 01:49 AM
I believe that it is their right/priviledge.

I Cor 9:4 Do we not have the right to our food and drink?
5* Do we not have the right to be accompanied by a wife, as the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?
7* Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
8 Do I say this on human authority? Does not the law say the same?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?
10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of a share in the crop.
11* If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
12 If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.
13* Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
14* In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

:)

Brandan
01-04-02, 07:18 AM
How does this justify paying a full time salary to an elder? This passage says those who wander and proclaim the gospel are entitled to support, but no reference is made to those sheperding the local church.

frog4ever
01-04-02, 08:41 PM
well... my dads an elder at our church.. he doesn't get paid, and neither do the other 6 or so. I dont think he wants to be paid or needs to be. I think he looks at it as more of an honor.. and not a job..

Andrew
01-06-02, 04:50 AM
kermie,

I do not limit the ox in verse 9 and the verse 14 (Those who proclaim the Gospel) to only travelling evanlgelist.

to me the ox is a type of servant of the Lord. I count pastors in.

also I leave the choice to the pastors.

God bless

Brandan
01-06-02, 08:39 AM
Well you DO limit it to a degree! Since you apparently seem fine to include pastors in those who "proclaim the gospel", could we not include all people who proclaim the gospel as well. After all, I proclaim the gospel in my daily life and through this website. Am I not a "full time" Christian worker? I believe I am! Yet, I don't ask you to pay me a salary. Why don't you offer to pay me?

Brandan

Andrew
01-06-02, 09:34 AM
kermie,
----------
Well you DO limit it to a degree!
----------

to a degree? so who decides evangelists get paid but pastors don't? is there some authority/body? maybe those who are against tithing?

Jesus just said "THOSE who proclaim" and I'll leave it at that. it also says "their LIVING" so it wld seem like those who are in full-time ministry, so you needn't worry abt "could we not include all people who proclaim the gospel as well". i dont ask for money just becos i share Christ with a colleague. i think u get the point.

if u want to limit it then why not just limit it to apostles? then again many dont even believe apostles exist anymore.

Paul worked for a living while he preached. yet he said that he had the right to financial/material support. yet he chose not to exercise his right.

if you feel that you are proclaiming the gospel as a living ie full-time, you have every right to ask for financial support. the choice is yours. who knows? many here might just send in donations.

Brandan
01-07-02, 07:22 AM
Money corrupts. That's all I gotta say about that.

Andrew
01-07-02, 08:03 PM
You mean the LOVE OF money.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

money in itself is neutral.

fredbvalani
01-08-02, 07:07 AM
I say they should be paid a salary cause if there is no fixed salary some may receive too much while some will starve to death.

How do you pay pastors of a denomination that has branches in both towns (or cities) and villages. Depending on support from the congregation. They don't choose where to pastor (city or village), they have to be allocated by the supreme council (or whatever it may be called) of the denomination.

Some will have cars, and too much money and property while others will starve to death.

Debbiek
01-08-02, 07:27 PM
As Andrew pointed out, the Bible demands the leader of the church be paid. Now we define the leader & church. 1Cor. defines the order of the church, in order. 1Cor. 12:28-"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles,secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." The apostle is the leader of the church. Today we call him: pastor, preacher, priest, minister,father. etc. No scripture in the Bible indicates to me that the part timers are to be paid. Elders are at the bottom of the list anyway. In today's churches, the apostle position is usually the only full time position. As to the definition of a church, no scripture indicates a church has to have 2 by 4's. Therefore this could be called a church, but only if it falls within the guidelines of order. Kermie could be the apostle if he followed the scripture for apostles. If he feels the call, & if he is appointed by God, by meeting Biblical criteria of an apostle, Kermie could then charge his salary & we would be obligated to pay. But then Kermie would have to come over to my house to minister to me when I needed him. So Kermie would probably be the "teacher" (3rd position) of our assembly in fellowship, not church. @@@ Acts 5:1-11 speaks of the death of Ananias & Sapphira for not properly paying the church.