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Steven
12-06-01, 10:32 PM
Hi Jak

Jak it seems brandon thinks i was trying to belittle you,sorry if it seemed that way,merely concerned for you.

Luke 3:6 And all FLESH shall see the salvation of God.

John 5:29 And shall come forth;They that have done good,unto the resurection of God; And they that have done evil,unto the rsurrection of damnation.

Jak,there are two physical resurections of Flesh.

Rev.20:4 And i saw thrones and they that sat on them(the bride) and judgement was given unto them;and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,wich had not worshipped the beast,neither recieved his mark........And they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 yrs.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand yrs. were finished,this is the first resurection.

Ok Jak,first thing I want you to notice is them that are sitting on the thrones,they are the bride of Christ(from abraham to the 1st resurection) and these are flesh,because the next group is denoted as being souls.

How do i know this is the bride of Christ?


Rev. 4:4 and round about the throne were four and twenty seats,and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting,clothed in white rainment,and they had on their heads crowns of gold.


Rev.3:21 to him that overcometh will i grant to sit in my throne with me.

Rev.3:18 I council thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,that thou mayest have riches in heaven,and white rainment that thy nakedness(sin) do not appear.....

Rev. 5:8-9 And four and twenty elders fell down before the lamb........and they sung a new song,saying thou art worthy to take the book ,and to open the seals thereof,for thou wast slain,and redeemed us to god by thy blood out of every kindred ,and tongue and people and nation.


How do I arrive at the number twenty four being representitve of the bride of christ?

Rev. 21:12 And had a wall great and high,And had twelve gaits...... and names written thereon wich are the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev.21:14 and the wall of the city had twelve foundations,and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb.

12 tribes,12 apostles,the bride = 24


Ok heres the second resurection.


Rev,20:11 And i saw a great white throne,and him that sat on it,from whose face the heaven and the earth fled away,and there was found no place for them.

Rev.20:12 and I saw the dead small and great,stand before God,and the books were opened,and another book was opened wich is the book of life,and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books according to their works.

Rev.20:13 And the sea gave up the dead wich were in it,and death and hell delivered up the dead wich were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev. 20:15 and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Jak,if this dont convince you that the flesh will be resurected just look at what job had to say!

Job 19:25-27 for I know my redeemer liveth,and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:and tho after my skin the worms destroy this body,yet in my flesh will i see God;whom i shall see for myself and mine eyes shall behold,and not another;



Steven

Odyssey
12-06-01, 11:04 PM
Steven,

First of all, Revelation was written to seven specific churches in the first century (1.4). John wrote that the things contained within that letter 'must shortly take place' (1.1) for the 'time (was) at hand' (1.3; 22.10) when he penned it. Not sometime in the future, not thousands of years away from the first century. But within a short time of John's writing. In fact, the time was so short that the angel told John, 'He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still' (22.11). In other words, there wouldn't be any time to change ones position. Judgement was already on its way.

Concerning the resurrection of the 'flesh': The passage from Job is not a very good one to use. Here's why:

26 (YLT) And after my skin hath compassed this body, Then from my flesh I see God:
26 (ASV) And after my skin, even this body, is destroyed, Then without my flesh shall I see God;
26 (BBE) And…without my flesh I will see God;
26 (AV) And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

So it looks like that the word is hard to translate. It seems that it can be either 'with' or 'without.'

Secondly, concerning Luke 3.6: This has nothing to do with the resurrection. It had to do with the ministry of John the Baptist as the previous verses plainly state:

'...there came a word of God unto John the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness, {3}and he came to all the region round the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of reformation—to remission of sins, {4}as it hath been written in the scroll of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, "A voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, straight make ye His paths; {5}every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall become straightness, and the rough become smooth ways; {6}and all flesh shall see the salvation of God" (vv.2-6).' Here, the phrase 'all flesh' would pertain to only those who heard the preaching of John. That would mean that it was limited to all of the different classes of Jews (and probably some Gentiles). This would account for the phrase. Again, it has nothing to do with resurrection of any kind, i.e., physical or spiritual.

Thirdly concerning John 5.29: This clearly refers to a spiritual judgment of people for Jesus said in the previous verses that the resurrection 'now is' (25). Furthermore, it states nothing about it being a 'physical' resurrection. You have to insert that into the passage to make it fit your view.

Lastly, you have failed to address the teachings of Paul who preached that the judgment and resurrection were 'about to' take place in his day (Acts 24.15, 25). You must address this honestly. Like Peter and I both wrote, you and Paul both can't be right.

Grace to you,

jak

Steven
12-07-01, 01:10 AM
Hi Jak

Jak,it would seem you have too many different interpretations of the bible,im surprised you believe anything and arent just totally confused,now wich one teaches what you believe,and you cant say all of them,because they all say different things.
Jak theres an old saying,and its a biblical one "much learning doth corrupt"

Jak ,I have quoted scriptures to you from the KJV bible and the scriptures I have given you from the KJV prove that the resurection of the flesh will occur,but if you dont believe the kjv tells the truth,then there isnt much point in going any further in this.




Steven

Odyssey
12-07-01, 09:07 AM
I totally agree here Steven. If you can't accept the fact that the actual Hebrew and Greek texts state other things, then, you are right, we have nothing more to discuss.

I pray that god continues to guide you on your journey.

Grace to you,

jak