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CarolK
05-29-06, 01:22 PM
http://members.cox.net/ckizzz/sign11.JPG

I saw this sign on the signboard outside a church down the street from me.

Really makes me sick, until I remember they are talking about a 'different' Jesus. I have tons of respect and admiration for our veterans, but good grief!!

carol

Dans la Musique
05-29-06, 08:52 PM
http://members.cox.net/ckizzz/sign11.JPG

I saw this sign on the signboard outside a church down the street from me.

Really makes me sick, until I remember they are talking about a 'different' Jesus. I have tons of respect and admiration for our veterans, but good grief!!


carol

Yeah, I find it hard to find the real Jesus out there sometimes. The anti-christ is everywhere... Im not paranoid, I swear.

Dans la Musique
05-29-06, 08:54 PM
Of course this depends on who the 'us' is.

Kneeling
05-29-06, 09:45 PM
looks like the fulfilling of rev 13 : 7-9 7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

I would say, in the day and time we are living in 99.9 percent of people on the earth believe in some sorta armimism , universal atonement or love of God, works salvation of some sort...Only the elect , those who names are written in the lambs book of life from from the foundation of the world shall be delivered. The same blessed truth is found in matt 24:24 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

lionovjudah
05-30-06, 05:28 AM
looks like the fulfilling of rev 13 : 7-9 7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

I would say, in the day and time we are living in 99.9 percent of people on the earth believe in some sorta armimism , universal atonement or love of God, works salvation of some sort...Only the elect , those who names are written in the lambs book of life from from the foundation of the world shall be delivered. The same blessed truth is found in matt 24:24 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


This is definately a pervasive tone in your mind Anne. Do you find Arminianism in the local WalMArt ads also? Like Dans said, it depends who the us are. WOuld you have liked to see the word elect instead of us? Then it would not havce been correct. No soldier died for the elect only. At times it appears you may be enjoying some big camel in your diet.

jmgipson
05-30-06, 06:27 AM
This is definately a pervasive tone in your mind Anne. Do you find Arminianism in the local WalMArt ads also? Like Dans said, it depends who the us are. WOuld you have liked to see the word elect instead of us? Then it would not havce been correct. No soldier died for the elect only. At times it appears you may be enjoying some big camel in your diet.

You are wrong Joe. This is an abonmination of a sign. The death of Christ in no way can be considered even in the same sentence. This church does not even consider the blood of Christ to be any better than a man's. Anne is correct in being disgusted with this sign. You suprise me Joe.

John

lionovjudah
05-30-06, 06:59 AM
You are wrong Joe. This is an abonmination of a sign. The death of Christ in no way can be considered even in the same sentence. This church does not even consider the blood of Christ to be any better than a man's. Anne is correct in being disgusted with this sign. You suprise me Joe.

John

I would not consider it an abomination. Arnt both statements true to some sort? Do not those in the military say those who died, died for 'us" meaning the ones here in America? They died for our freedom? I am not saying I agree with any type of God Bless America and curse the rest of the world mentality. I seriously doubt those in this church were thinking that Christ's blood is equal to a dead soldiers.

Call and ask them!!!!!

MCoving
05-30-06, 07:32 AM
Again Lionofjudah I think you missed something important here. The sign compares those who died in the war to Christ dieing. So as Dan said it does depend on the us in that sign. And the us in that sign is not referring to the elect but to all the world here is what it reads again for you: Remember our veterans and our Lord Jesus Christ, they all died for us. Now you just said that our veterans died for everyone in America correct? So then would you say that Jesus died for everyone here in America? Because that is what the sign is saying. It compares those who died over sees for us (Americans) to Christ who died for us (Americans). There is NO distinction on that sign, there is no difference! That sign is saying Christ died for all, every person elect and nonelect.. just like those veterans died for all in America every person elect and nonelect. And that doesn't even work that well because if one is comparing Christs death to veterans dieing for us, they are saying really that Christ died for Americans they kind of leave out the rest of the world. So in both cases its completely wrong, and that church in no way was thinking, they were completely ignorant of the grace of God. Like arminians are.. ignorant and blind to the truth.

Hope that spelled it out more for you and those who didn't see the sign as completely trash.

Mary

MCoving
05-30-06, 07:34 AM
Oh and the sign would have been better if it just simple said Remember our veterans and our Lord Jesus Christ. They could have just left off the last line. But of course they didn't because I am sure they believe in universal atonement.. Jesus died for all just like soldiers died for all.

Mary

lionovjudah
05-30-06, 07:54 AM
Again Lionofjudah I think you missed something important here. The sign compares those who died in the war to Christ dieing. So as Dan said it does depend on the us in that sign. And the us in that sign is not referring to the elect but to all the world here is what it reads again for you: Remember our veterans and our Lord Jesus Christ, they all died for us. Now you just said that our veterans died for everyone in America correct? So then would you say that Jesus died for everyone here in America? Because that is what the sign is saying. It compares those who died over sees for us (Americans) to Christ who died for us (Americans). There is NO distinction on that sign, there is no difference! That sign is saying Christ died for all, every person elect and nonelect.. just like those veterans died for all in America every person elect and nonelect. And that doesn't even work that well because if one is comparing Christs death to veterans dieing for us, they are saying really that Christ died for Americans they kind of leave out the rest of the world. So in both cases its completely wrong, and that church in no way was thinking, they were completely ignorant of the grace of God. Like arminians are.. ignorant and blind to the truth.

Hope that spelled it out more for you and those who didn't see the sign as completely trash.

Mary

Mary McCoving: I understnad exactly wat the sign said. But it does not create much ire for me. I have seen much worse. Recently there was a sign at the Salvation Army location which read "Like Jesus, help those who can't help themselves" Now I find this 100% true doctrinally. Christ came to help those who CANNOT help themselves. But I know the SA preaches falsehood. My point being is Carol lives near the church, if it bothered her or you so much, then call them.

jmgipson
05-30-06, 08:09 AM
Mary McCoving: I understnad exactly wat the sign said. But it does not create much ire for me. I have seen much worse. Recently there was a sign at the Salvation Army location which read "Like Jesus, help those who can't help themselves" Now I find this 100% true doctrinally. Christ came to help those who CANNOT help themselves. But I know the SA preaches falsehood. My point being is Carol lives near the church, if it bothered her or you so much, then call them.

You are kidding me right Joe? I am not even looking at the "for us" arminian crap. I speak of comparing the death of Crist even remotely equal to the death of human worms. I would hope this would irk you. You can not even think of these in the same sentence. I think it is tasteless along with apostate.

John

MCoving
05-30-06, 08:17 AM
Mary McCoving: I understnad exactly wat the sign said. But it does not create much ire for me. I have seen much worse. Recently there was a sign at the Salvation Army location which read "Like Jesus, help those who can't help themselves" Now I find this 100% true doctrinally. Christ came to help those who CANNOT help themselves. But I know the SA preaches falsehood. My point being is Carol lives near the church, if it bothered her or you so much, then call them.

You know Carol was just sharing something that we all know to be true.. that there are many churches out their preaching false doctrines. This sign proves that to a tee. She was just pointing out the sign, and people here were just agreeing with how ridiculus it was. Sure she could call them but why bother? I know what they would say.. they wouldn't accept a word she said and thus she'd waste her breathe. And no it doesn't bother me to the point where I need to call them.. I dont care. Gods Will will be done with or without me calling them. I was just agreeing that the sign is teaching a false doctrine, as most churches today do. So I dont see why you must argue with people here.. don't you agree that the sign teaches a false doctrine? Well hopefully.... then leave it at that and stop trying to make some thread about a church sign into some big deal. Geesh she was only pointing out a sign that was written poorly to us.


Mary

lionovjudah
05-30-06, 09:22 AM
You know Carol was just sharing something that we all know to be true.. that there are many churches out their preaching false doctrines. This sign proves that to a tee. She was just pointing out the sign, and people here were just agreeing with how ridiculus it was. Sure she could call them but why bother? I know what they would say.. they wouldn't accept a word she said and thus she'd waste her breathe. And no it doesn't bother me to the point where I need to call them.. I dont care. Gods Will will be done with or without me calling them. I was just agreeing that the sign is teaching a false doctrine, as most churches today do. So I dont see why you must argue with people here.. don't you agree that the sign teaches a false doctrine? Well hopefully.... then leave it at that and stop trying to make some thread about a church sign into some big deal. Geesh she was only pointing out a sign that was written poorly to us.


Mary

Settle down Mary :eek: .. I agree it is wrong. But let me ask you this. If you saw this sign outside of a church that professes the 5 points of calvinism. Or if brandan wrote this on this forum, I am not saying he would, but if he did, would you be as upset? Was the sign thought out? I dont know. But i honestly do not believe they were equating the death of Christ with service men as being equal. I will call them and ask.

GraceAmbassador
05-30-06, 10:02 AM
I guarantee you: this post won't help this thread at all!!!

"Church" signs are often stupid one liners of the sermon the preacher intends to preach. As Anne, Mary, John and others said (the ones here, not the ones in the Bible:cool: ) it is a disgusting phrase that DOES indicate a serious error. But it can also be a speech "hook" to make people wonder what the "idiot" is going to preach about next Sunday. I would not be surprised if anyone would call the "preacher" and he would say that he was mocking those who elevate the veterans to a position of dying for "all of us", as Dan pointed out, instead of remembering Jesus who REALLY died for His people.

A famous Portuguese preacher of the past, responsible a great deal for the spreading of the Gospel in the Portuguese speaking world, from many centuries ago had a sermon themed as this (as told by one of my teachers): (I even cringe to repeat) "Accurssed be the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". People came in by the droves to hear his message. He was preaching about the devilish and subtle ways in which satan attempts to lie about the doctrine of the Trinity that however "slight" they may be, they are nothing but a cursing of the Biblical revelation of the Trinity as the Three in One. His point was that in any which way one may tries to water down the doctrine of the Trinity, they are in fact rejecting it and accursing it in chorus with demons. So, hook up phrases is nothing new. They are sheer stupidity and attempts to draw people to the "sermon" and not to the One the sermon should be about!

I expect NOTHING from "churchianity" other than stupidity. This sign does not surprise me. I have very little, if any, tolerance for some of these signs but I expect a liar to lie, a killer to kill, heretics to proclaim heresy, a donkey to neigh and "churchianity" to be stupid and heretical.

I am appalled, however, that some watch these things as if they were not predicted and warned by Jesus. When Jesus said: "You shall know them by their fruits" it was in context of false teaching. The elect will detect false teaching and, as we concluded in the other thread, they will desire the truth because God programmed them so. Pslam 37:4 says that "He [God] will GIVE the desires of our hearts" (vs. 4). The idea here is not that God will give us desires, or be a santa claus God who will grant our every wish, but that He will program us to desire His desires.

So, be not dismayed seeing that some will not detect the heresy of these "church" signs. We know that some will never desire the truth; "they will be ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 3:7).

LionofJudah is not saying that the sign is correct, but believe me, calling the preacher will be the biggest exercise in futility one can engage in. They have made up their minds that "attracting" people to the sermon is equal to attracting people to Jesus because MOST PREACHERS, with rare exceptions, believe that "sermons" are key and the one and only attracting way to draw people to whatever they say with a southern draw: "The Lord".:eek: I have to withhold my comtempt for these "churchians" lest I sin.

Milt

Brandan
05-30-06, 02:04 PM
I'm glad these churches put these signs out - that way I know without a doubt that I need to avoid them! Yes, their signs are blasphemous - but to God be the Glory in their everlasting shame!