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Brandan
10-20-06, 12:27 PM
Yeah! I get to go to the World Series - I'm so excited!!!!

Saint Nicholas
10-20-06, 12:48 PM
I'm rooting for the Cardinals also !! What a great 7th game that was last night. Bases loaded, 2 outs, and the Mets biggest gun at the plate. Result STRIKE OUT.

Nicholas

Brandan
10-20-06, 01:16 PM
Nicholas - that was the greatest game I've ever seen!

Washington Kid
10-20-06, 04:09 PM
Go Cards!..........KK:)

MCoving
10-21-06, 12:57 AM
Okay I have to admit ever since meeting you Brandan I have specifically made an effort to watch the Cardinals and to have my dad tell me all about them when he watches his sports channels.

We have a little game we play for every world series where we draw numbers bet a quarter or so about the ending score. This time I'll pry be watching the world series though last few times I didn't. Just something about them Cardinals.. hehe :D

Mary

katoikei
10-21-06, 04:59 AM
It must be amazing to have baseball as a national sport. Over here it is a side order; cause it is all rugby and soccer and cricket.

This article mentions that the last time it will be featured is in Beijing in 2008 ? My only real fettish is boxing and tennis, they just get that old adrenalin pumping the heart rate somethin' furious!

I wonder if the dropping of baseball and softball in the Olympics has anything to do with the fact that the US did not quality in 2004 ?

--------------------
NBC report: click here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8504326/)
Wikipedia notes : click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Baseball)
--------------------

I hope you have a great time! :)

Greg
10-21-06, 08:04 AM
Congrats on getting to go to a few world series games Brandan.

However as much as I enjoyed game 7 I believe it's time for us to recognize something better than what we saw the other night, because something greater than baseball is here.

Welcome to the:

Rlhuckle
10-21-06, 10:59 AM
Gee whiz, am I the only one rootin' for the Tigers? What about you other ducks (Michiganders--current and former; such as myself) out there? It's okay, the Cats are out of the bag! Go Tigers!! (no offense, Brandan)

wildboar
10-21-06, 01:48 PM
Although I enjoy playing certain sports on occasion I find it difficult to watch other people play sports, so sorry for my lack of support for the Tigers. I am glad that sports stars generally only tell us what underwear to wear and shoes and batteries to buy and leave the politics to the movie stars.

Brandan
10-21-06, 09:08 PM
YEAH - Cards lead Detroit 1 game to ZERO! GO CARDS!!!!!

MCoving
10-22-06, 12:13 AM
YEAH - Cards lead Detroit 1 game to ZERO! GO CARDS!!!!!
Yeah my dad told me when I got home I was so excitied! Whoo Hoo!!

YIPEE! Cant wait for the next game maybe I'll actually be home to see it!

Mary

Washington Kid
10-22-06, 05:39 AM
Cards up 1-zip.....KK

Greg
10-22-06, 09:22 AM
Cards looked awsome last night.
Break out the brooms.
Can anyone say sweeeeep?

Brandan
10-22-06, 09:28 AM
Cards looked awsome last night.
Break out the brooms.
Can anyone say sweeeeep?

Right now, I'll be happy if we don't get swept like 2004 (last night guaranteed this won't happen!)! I'm shocked at how well they played last night.

Rlhuckle
10-22-06, 10:41 AM
Aw, shucks.....

Brandan
10-22-06, 08:08 PM
So I see now how Tigers win - THEY CHEAT!

Brandan
10-22-06, 08:33 PM
See Kenny Rogers hand... CHEATER!

Brandan
10-22-06, 09:33 PM
It's obvious Rogers cheated throughout the whole game. If the umps had any spine, they would have thrown him out immediately - it's against the rules to have any substance on the hands. They told him to wash it off. Pine tar still works even after being wiped off.

Well I'm glad the cards are leaving cheatroit. I'm still bitter after Kansas City and Don Denkinger cheating the cardinals out of the 1985 series - now I have to live with stinkin' detroit!

Tigers are losers!

Rlhuckle
10-23-06, 09:10 AM
It's obvious Rogers cheated throughout the whole game. If the umps had any spine, they would have thrown him out immediately - it's against the rules to have any substance on the hands. They told him to wash it off. Pine tar still works even after being wiped off.

Well I'm glad the cards are leaving cheatroit. I'm still bitter after Kansas City and Don Denkinger cheating the cardinals out of the 1985 series - now I have to live with stinkin' detroit!

Tigers are losers!

I'm ashamed of them; I'm glad God is in control no matter what happens. My condolences to the Cards' fans.

Now, I think every single player should be tested for steroids and performance enhancing drugs.

Brandan
10-23-06, 09:32 AM
I'm ashamed of them; I'm glad God is in control no matter what happens. My condolences to the Cards' fans.

Now, I think every single player should be tested for steroids and performance enhancing drugs.

Thanks Roger. I agree - I don't think the Tigers are on the up and up at all. Rogers cast disrepute upon the whole organization. Today on ESPN, the main story is about Rogers cheating. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2635618

Saint Nicholas
10-23-06, 09:56 AM
I do not know the official "rule" pertaining to this clear and obvious cheating on Roger's part. But he should have immediatly been TOSSED from the game none the less.

Nicholas

Brandan
10-23-06, 10:20 AM
I do not know the official "rule" pertaining to this clear and obvious cheating on Roger's part. But he should have immediatly been TOSSED from the game none the less.

Nicholas
Agreed - and even MLB rule states that there are no foreign substances allowed under any circumstances and that he should immediately receive a ten game suspension. The umpires simply did not do their job and they allowed Rogers to make a mockery of this series.

Rlhuckle
10-23-06, 10:54 AM
Thanks Roger. I agree - I don't think the Tigers are on the up and up at all. Rogers cast disrepute upon the whole organization. Today on ESPN, the main story is about Rogers cheating. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=2635618

I happened to tune in the game at the bottom of the second inning (my kids had a concert) and all I caught was some of the commentators talking about it. I thought it strange that neither La Russo nor Leyland would discuss the issue during their between-inning interviews. As the ESPN article indicated, Rogers should have been inspected and ejected if anything remiss was discovered.

If all this secrecy was intended to somehow "protect the integrity" of this series, they failed tremendously. This cloud will not go away and until everybody comes clean; I hope the media and fans keep nagging at those responsible. Integrity demands it!

ugly_gaunt_cow
10-24-06, 08:28 PM
Isn't that the old Toronto BlueJays logo??? :confused:

;)

MCoving
10-24-06, 10:49 PM
WOW! SO cool the Cards won tonight! Hey Brandan did you watch it?! What was it like being there?

Mary

Brandan
10-25-06, 05:26 AM
WOW! SO cool the Cards won tonight! Hey Brandan did you watch it?! What was it like being there?

Mary

Angie had to work last night - so I had to watch it on TV. I'm going tonight and tomorrow, but it looks like it's gonna get rained out.

Saint Nicholas
10-25-06, 08:02 AM
Red Birds up 2 games to 1............way to go Cards!!!

jmgipson
10-25-06, 10:45 AM
If you need anymore New Hampshire help in taking the series, let me know!!!!!:D

John

wildboar
10-25-06, 07:54 PM
I think every ticket buyer should be tested for drunkeness for being willing to spend so much money to buy a ticket and wanting to have these players paid so much to play a game. I just think our priorities are way off. There are people involved in jobs where they at times risk their lives and save other people's lives and yet they make less money than people who play a children's game.

ugly_gaunt_cow
10-25-06, 08:50 PM
I think every ticket buyer should be tested for drunkeness for being willing to spend so much money to buy a ticket and wanting to have these players paid so much to play a game. I just think our priorities are way off. There are people involved in jobs where they at times risk their lives and save other people's lives and yet they make less money than people who play a children's game.

I agree, Chuck.

Just think of it...

We pay an average of seven dollars an hour to the people who clean up our filth. Talk about about debased minds...

Rlhuckle
10-25-06, 09:43 PM
I agree, Chuck.

Just think of it...

We pay an average of seven dollars an hour to the people who clean up our filth. Talk about about debased minds...

Do most day care centers pay their workers that much to take care of America's children?

MCoving
10-25-06, 11:15 PM
Do most day care centers pay their workers that much to take care of America's children?

Yeah I used to work in a day care and min wage is 7.50 here. I was getting 9.50, and average is like $8. Teachers are under paid too! And what would this world be without them!?? Can we get the pay that baseball players get? haha lol

Mary

Brandan
10-26-06, 04:43 AM
I think every ticket buyer should be tested for drunkeness for being willing to spend so much money to buy a ticket and wanting to have these players paid so much to play a game. I just think our priorities are way off. There are people involved in jobs where they at times risk their lives and save other people's lives and yet they make less money than people who play a children's game.

Charles, you sound like a communist.

Greg
10-26-06, 07:25 AM
Charles, you sound like a communist.I was thinking the same thing!

Brandan
10-26-06, 08:56 AM
Charles' comment was very insulting to me - personally. I purchased season tickets this year and I'm going to two world series games. I guess I'm just a drunk idiot to him! Well Charles, I'm not drunk - although I did have a couple beers last night waiting for a good game that never came because of the rain. But I had a great time. Baseball for me is a passtime - it's something that brings joy to my life, and I thank the Lord for it!

People spend money to go listen to their favorite musicians sing live. Why? Because they enjoy it - period. Sure, they could save hundreds of dollars and purchase the CD (which they probably already have), but they don't. They go to concerts, and have a great time. My wife and I spend money occaisionally and go listen to live jazz music. But why waste money on a CD when they could give the money to the poor, right?

As far as baseball tickets go - the reason they are so expensive is because of supply and demand - it's not because ballplayers are making millions of dollars. People WANT to see baseball. People that want to see it the most or have more money get to see it. That's the nature of the free market. It has nothing to do with "being drunk."

I suppose I could say people should be questioned for dropping their kids off at daycare! I won't do it because I don't trust anybody with my son! I have the wonderful situation where I don't have to drop my kid off at daycare, and I am very thankful that I am not forced into such a situation. I don't look down on anyone that has to drop their kids off at daycare.

As for teachers, I don't feel sorry for them either. They went into their profession knowing what kind of money it involved. Same way with fire fighters and those that risk their lives to save others. They knew the cost of their profession - but they went into it irregardless. Instead of joining the local firefighter unit, they could have studied baseball, developed their talent, and could be making millions if they really wanted to do it.

I am very thankful that I live in a country where men can make millions by playing a game. I thank the Lord EVERY DAY FOR THAT! This is America, and it's the land of opportunity and freedom. If you don't like it, then quit your whining and stop begrudging those who want to celebrate their freedom by going to a world series game! Charles, your comment was out of line, and it is typical of self-righteous liberal socialists. You sir ought to be ashamed of yourself for making that comment!

Judas complained when the Lord enjoyed luxuries....

Brandan

lionovjudah
10-26-06, 09:34 AM
As for teachers, I don't feel sorry for them either. They went into their profession knowing what kind of money it involved.


If I had to do it over again I would be a teacher. I have no clue why they complain. They work 180 days a year. Full benefits. increase every year. The public arena is what os put of whack.

Washington Kid
10-26-06, 02:50 PM
Baseball players pay and what people are willing to pay to watch them is representative of our great free-market society. I lived in the Philippines for two years: a land whose market is dominated by Popery: most of the people live in total poverty right next to magnificient buildings Popery calls a "church".....I'll take the free market, and baseball, and apple pie......and the good old USA........GO CARDS!........KK:)

Brandan
10-26-06, 03:16 PM
Thanks Craig.

What I don't understand now is if Charles really meant to try and offend me. In this thread, it is evident that I was going to the World Series, yet he had the nerve to call all those who bought tickets drunks.

This is what he said:
I think every ticket buyer should be tested for drunkeness for being willing to spend so much money to buy a ticket

What a hypocrite. I'm sure at some point Charles has spent money on a luxury - maybe he's taken a vacation. Maybe he has power windows in his car and padded the wallets of some fat cat oil executive. Maybe he drives a car instead of walking. I don't know.... Maybe he doesn't - maybe he doesn't spend any of his money on himself and selflessly gives it all away to those who have more need of it than him. It's not my call to make whether or not he spends what money has been allotted to him wisely or not!

Rlhuckle
10-26-06, 04:21 PM
Yeah I used to work in a day care and min wage is 7.50 here. I was getting 9.50, and average is like $8. Teachers are under paid too! And what would this world be without them!?? Can we get the pay that baseball players get? haha lol

Mary

Yep, my point was that those whom we entrust with educating and caring for our children during the most important time of their lives are not paid in line with the responsibility that parents give them. There is something wrong with the values (duh).

This said, I regret EVER putting our children in day care. My wife and I used to own a small business that took up ten hours a day six days a week and we put both our children in day-care for a time. We are still dealing with developmental issues that I believe are directly related to that experience in their lives. I thank God we no longer own the business and He gave us opportunity to homeschool.

Public school is another issue which I do not care to delve into very seriously. Teaching (scripturally) is a calling that I have the utmost respect for. I believe that good teachers should earn at least a hundred thousand a year--but only if they have a solid Christian foundation and do not teach in the public school.....:) --'nuff said 'bout that.

Now, if we really want to judge each other on stewardship issues, I think we might as well just put egg on our own faces and see who looks the silliest!
@ @
| >|
\__/ Brandan, I hope you enjoy/enjoyed the game.

MCoving
10-26-06, 04:45 PM
Thanks Craig.

What I don't understand now is if Charles really meant to try and offend me. In this thread, it is evident that I was going to the World Series, yet he had the nerve to call all those who bought tickets drunks.

This is what he said:

What a hypocrite. I'm sure at some point Charles has spent money on a luxury - maybe he's taken a vacation. Maybe he has power windows in his car and padded the wallets of some fat cat oil executive. Maybe he drives a car instead of walking. I don't know.... Maybe he doesn't - maybe he doesn't spend any of his money on himself and selflessly gives it all away to those who have more need of it than him. It's not my call to make whether or not he spends what money has been allotted to him wisely or not!

Yeah I wasn't really shocked by his comment.. his character has proven to be that much on this forum, it is often I read posts from him that belittle other people. Though just like you I was upset at that comment.. I just shrugged it off. But its really not called for.

Also just so you know I wasn't trying to complain about teachers pay or how baseball players or any pros get alot of money. Its how it is and how its going to be, You are right Brandan that people choose the careers they are in. And very often it is because of their likes not about the money, that is very true. I'm sure if i tried I could have studied and trained for professional sport team. Just didnt want to... :) So no I wont complain....

Though there could be a little more pay or some more respect for certain teachers. Any not just elementary or high school what not. But I've been working in the special education center as well. I would argue for more pay for the instructional assistants not the teachers there. They do alot, and work alot of one on one with high need students. I love working in that classroom.. someone to show those students love and attention, and to understand their needs some parents are too busy to really understand or take the time for their child. But yeah instructional assistants get $11/hr and let me tell you they do all. Just with subbing I have alot of respect for them. Not complaining just talking.. sorry I like to talk.

Anyways back to those Cards!! Too bad it was rained out!! :( Glad you enjoyed yourself though! If Oregon had a pro baseball team I'm sure me and my dad would be there alot! :D

Well off for a nap... then dinner, and work as a server. Take care

Mary

lionovjudah
10-26-06, 06:45 PM
Yeah I wasn't really shocked by his comment.. his character has proven to be that much on this forum, it is often I read posts from him that belittle other people. Though just like you I was upset at that comment.. I just shrugged it off. But its really not called for.


What I don't understand now is if Charles really meant to try and offend me. In this thread, it is evident that I was going to the World Series, yet he had the nerve to call all those who bought tickets drunks.


C'mon Mary and Brandan. Just like "All" doesnt mean all in the writ, I am sure Charles didnt mean 'every' single person head for head either. And just becasue his name is Charles, lets not give him the "Charlie Brown" complex" of "Why's everybody always pickin' on me!!!!!!"

IF I had to write everytime I am insulted on here becasue of serious theological opinions of some, my post count would double. [ If i am asked to be specific, I will]

Now I like sports, but I also do not believe these jacked up atheletes deserve the money they get. It is a sick fruit. But I watch them anyway.

Brandan
10-27-06, 07:38 AM
C'mon Mary and Brandan. Just like "All" doesnt mean all in the writ, I am sure Charles didnt mean 'every' single person head for head either. And just becasue his name is Charles, lets not give him the "Charlie Brown" complex" of "Why's everybody always pickin' on me!!!!!!"

IF I had to write everytime I am insulted on here becasue of serious theological opinions of some, my post count would double. [ If i am asked to be specific, I will]

Now I like sports, but I also do not believe these jacked up atheletes deserve the money they get. It is a sick fruit. But I watch them anyway.It's obvious that Charles meant it - he did not apologize - I have suspended him from posting for two weeks.

Dorcas
10-27-06, 12:48 PM
It's easier to judge than to cuddle up to the little green monster ENVY...

Enjoy the games, Darth. More power to ya!

For me, there is NO utility in sports, although my husband rather enjoys them --which means I must occasionally (reluctantly) drag myself over to Angel Stadium or Arrowhead Pond.

However, I recently received a snide comment about a wonderful vacation that I am going on in a few weeks. It seems that a dear lady I know can't possibly understand how I could spend that much MONEY to travel overseas for several weeks --unless I was going for missionary purposes.

Ha!

Greg
10-27-06, 11:40 PM
Congrats Brandan, 4 and 1 Cards win.

So much for the cheater Rogers:

MCoving
10-27-06, 11:47 PM
Congrats Brandan, 4 and 1 Cards win.

So much for the cheater Rogers:

SWEET!!! I just found out the Cardinals won!! THAT IS SO AWESOME!!! Aren't you just jumping out of your seat Brandan? Whats it look like in St Louis tonight??!! haha :D

Mary

Brandan
10-28-06, 01:09 AM
SWEET!!! I just found out the Cardinals won!! THAT IS SO AWESOME!!! Aren't you just jumping out of your seat Brandan? Whats it look like in St Louis tonight??!! haha :D

MaryI'm having such a great time! IT WAS AWESOME!!! I am soooo happy!

Brandan
10-28-06, 06:38 AM
:)

Saint Nicholas
10-28-06, 07:13 AM
The Cardinals....2006 World Champions. 4 games to 1. Kenny Rogers, where are you ? I'm trying to find an invisible pine tar for next year.

Rlhuckle
10-28-06, 07:21 AM
Congrats Brandan, 4 and 1 Cards win.

So much for the cheater Rogers:

I thought it ironic that pitching errors were their downfall. Fitting.

Brandan
10-28-06, 08:01 AM
This is the first time since 1912 (Red Sox) that a team has clinched the WORLD SERIES at HOME IN A BRAND NEW STADIUM!!! I was there - I saw it! There is an AWESOME VIDEO over at http://www.redbirdcentral.com

I remember 1982 as a kid - but had to go to bed that night. They won. I didn't understand the gravity of the situation. In 1985 I cried myself to sleep after the umpires robbed the Cards. I'll never forget when Vince Coleman got run over by a tarp - and who can forget losing the series in 1987 to a team that played in a dome?

1996, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2005 - HEARTBREAKERS!

2006 - YES!!!! I only needed one and I'll forever remember this moment as I stood with my Dad in the first year that we had season tickets on one of the most memorable nights of my life. Baseball isn't just a game - it's a measuring stick - it's something people talk about, and it's something that I enjoy very much.

lionovjudah
10-28-06, 11:05 AM
Baseball isn't just a game - it's a measuring stick - it's something people talk about, and it's something that I enjoy very much.

i would have never guessed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

next year the pinstripes will wear the ring!!!!!!!!!!

Brandan
10-30-06, 05:49 AM
Here is an awesome article on LaRussa and cheating... In hindsight, I can agree with it - but at the time I was livid!


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/9E3358765CE6C84F862572170023224D?OpenDocument

For La Russa, this trophy doesn't have any smudges
By Bernie Miklasz
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
10/30/2006

After an exhilarating parade and ceremony at Busch Stadium, baseball's champions had some private time with family members and loved ones.

In the home team clubhouse, Cardinals players posed for photos with the World Series trophy. The smiles and the warmth filled the room. The sweetest scene was rookie closer Adam Wainwright, sitting on the floor with his wife, Jenny, and their seven-week-old daughter, Baylie Grace, the trophy before them. This will be quite an addition to the family album.

The afterglow of winning the World Series was still there, but as much as manager Tony La Russa enjoyed the day, other thoughts filled his mind. As he ran errands on Sunday morning, La Russa began thinking about the only controversy of the 2006 World Series: Game 2, and the stain on the left hand of Tigers pitcher Kenny Rogers.

La Russa replayed how he approached the situation, by asking the umpires to handle it on their own, rather than to specifically request that they search Rogers for contraband. If La Russa had really pushed hard, he might have gotten the umpires to inspect Rogers, with a possible ejection to follow. But Rogers quickly wiped off the hand and shut out the Cardinals for eight innings for Detroit's only World Series victory.




I wanted to know if La Russa had any second thoughts about what he'd done, and if he felt vindicated. His team won by beating the Tigers on the field not by having Rogers removed from the field.

"You hit the rawest nerve in retrospect," La Russa said. "I was thinking about this for quite a while today. I felt at the time that I had no regrets. After challenging myself on it, and it's not because we won, but I absolutely have no regrets that I should have done something different."

Since the firestorm after Game 2, La Russa's friends and colleagues have told him about irate fans and talk-show hosts calling for his dismissal or resignation. They believed La Russa failed his team by backing off from a stronger, more aggressive response to apparent cheating by Rogers.

"To those people, if we would have lost, who said we could have won (by getting Rogers ejected), then that's their problem," La Russa said.

"I would have survived it personally. I don't know if I would have survived it professionally or not. But as it turned out, it worked out OK. I would have survived it because I was taught to have philosophies. And one of them is the integrity of the competition."

To clarify, this is what La Russa means when he speaks about the integrity of the competition: Take your players, put them against the other team's players, and may the best team win. Don't try to get an advantage by turning the competition into a circus.

La Russa explained that baseball wise men Sparky Anderson and Paul Richards taught him the difference between having a strategy and having a philosophy. The strategy is all about baseball; what's the best approach to winning a game? But forming a philosophy is something deeper and more meaningful. The philosophy represents your core baseball values.

"So in that situation, I have about five minutes to make that call (on Rogers)," La Russa said. "And I was thinking, I had the luxury and the good fortune of teachers who taught me the difference between philosophy and strategy. Because in that situation, I might have strategized, 'Hey, I can get this guy thrown out of the game.'

"Strategies have their place, but they don't replace philosophy. Because philosophy is what you represent, and what you want your team to represent. You're talking about the most prestigious and highlighted competition you can have in Major League Baseball. This is the World Series.

"What if I say something? What if I say nothing? What if I ask the umpires to go to the mound? What if I do nothing? What if I do something in between? And I was really weighing everything against this when it's over, which of those responses fits what you've been taught and what you try to teach a ballclub about the way we're supposed to compete."

And for La Russa it came down to is this: Rogers was pushing the rules and the ethical line, which he believes all teams do. So nudge him back to the correct side of the line. But don't wimp out of competing against Rogers by having him tossed out.

"We want to win within our philosophy," La Russa said. "And part of that philosophy is abhorring BS baseball. I don't like it. And in my opinion, coaches, managers, organizations that resort to (that), their success is short-term. Because you will build a long-term disrespect over the way your team goes about it, the way your organization goes about it, the way you personally go about it.

"You may win a couple of games, you may win a championship, but you can't BS the competition. I believe in the beauty of the competition. Let's play the game. We get ready, they get ready. You play as hard as you can, and there's a winner and a loser. I feel better because we won, but to me winning the right way was winning within the integrity of the competition."

In Game 2, La Russa remembered all of his baseball lessons, all of his teachers, and remained true to his core values. He stayed on the high road, and it led to a World Series championship. La Russa won it the way he wanted to win it.

And that World Series trophy didn't have any leftover residue from Kenny Rogers. It was as clean as the Cardinals' triumph.

Rlhuckle
10-30-06, 07:45 AM
Yep, the article sounds good and the world will like his explanation of his actions; but he is merely promoting worldly relativistic philosophy instead of a worldview based on truth.

Could it be that if he really based his worldview on truth, he (and every other manager in baseball) would have to admit that quite a few of their players cheat by taking performance enhancing drugs? I am about through with America's professional sports. I believe they have all lost their integrity and the competition is a sham.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I remember a time when a man could be taken at his word and compromise wasn't even close to being included in a definition of integrity. Yeah, we caught Rogers cheating; I think La Russo and Leyland let it go because cheating is the name of the game. So, let's all cheat within 'acceptable' limits of 'integrity.' It is really easy to have integrity when one re-defines what it means.

Brandan
10-30-06, 09:16 AM
Yep, the article sounds good and the world will like his explanation of his actions; but he is merely promoting worldly relativistic philosophy instead of a worldview based on truth.

Could it be that if he really based his worldview on truth, he (and every other manager in baseball) would have to admit that quite a few of their players cheat by taking performance enhancing drugs? I am about through with America's professional sports. I believe they have all lost their integrity and the competition is a sham.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I remember a time when a man could be taken at his word and compromise wasn't even close to being included in a definition of integrity. Yeah, we caught Rogers cheating; I think La Russo and Leyland let it go because cheating is the name of the game. So, let's all cheat within 'acceptable' limits of 'integrity.' It is really easy to have integrity when one re-defines what it means.I don't think Larussa was promoting cheating - he even admitted that Rogers cheated in an interview. He wanted to win the world series without the world saying he won it because he had Rogers ejected. Anyway, Rogers SHOULD have been ejected and it wasn't LaRussa's responsibility to make sure it happened. The umpires and MLB should have ensured it. It's not a manager's job in my opinion to keep the other team "straight." I know Tony doesn't promote cheating on the Cardinals and has called suspected cheaters out of the game before. Tavarez was one that got caught cheating - and the cards made sure to let him go... The cardinals do not like cheaters.

Baseball and cheating has been going on since baseball started. I've been watching the Ken Burns documentary on baseball - and boy - the cheating used to be much worse in my opinion.

What's funny is at one time the curve ball used to be considered cheating and was not allowed. Harvard's baseball team won a championship back in the 1800s and the Dean of the college wrote that he was ashamed of them winning because it was said the pitcher won by "deceiving" the other team with a curve ball.

I would have no problem with pine tar being used IF all pitchers were allowed to use it. Some of the rules are ridiculous. A bit of pine tar shouldn't hurt the game.... In the "dead ball" era of baseball - there used to be a lot more movement because pitchers used foreign substances regularly. In fact, the same ball was used throughout the entire game. It was spit upon, scuffed, scraped, and pine tar was used regularly. It wasn't until someone was killed after being beaned in the head was the baseball changed (they could be hit out of the infield finally!) and scuffs or foreign substances were completely banned.

I was upset that Detroit was allowed to use Pine Tar in the cold weather and the Cards pitchers were not. If everyone is "secretly" using pine tar, that would be alright if it was simply accepted by all teams, players, and umpires. The problem is, it hurts the integrity of the game, and if someone is caught breaking the rules on the big stage, then yes, it looks very bad.

Baseball is very peculiar. I'm not excusing Kenny Rogers at all - I think he should have been suspended - but I'm glad that the Cards beat him without him being ejected. He was not allowed to pitch game 5 here in St. Louis because of the jeering and unbelievably harsh environment he'd have to face. He could have won game 5 for Detroit and then made it easier for the less experienced pitchers to win back at home in Detroit. But instead - he did not get to pitch game 5, and the Tigers lost the series. It just goes to show you, cheating will come back to bite you - so don't try it.

If I were a Detroit Tigers fan, I'd be very ashamed of the organization. It's one thing if your main pitcher gets caught cheating on National TV in such a large event. It's another thing to not do anything about it. The Detroit Tigers management FAILED their fans who have followed them all year. Detroit could have held their heads high had they lost the world series after punishing Rogers. But instead, the Tigers can only hang their heads in shame after losing Game 5 in St. Louis. They are losers - and it's not because they lost 4 baseball games - but because they lost it while cheating!

Rlhuckle
10-30-06, 03:15 PM
I don't think Larussa was promoting cheating - he even admitted that Rogers cheated in an interview. He wanted to win the world series without the world saying he won it because he had Rogers ejected.

Agreed; it appears he was more committed to what the world might have said about the win instead of the truth--dunno.


Anyway, Rogers SHOULD have been ejected and it wasn't LaRussa's responsibility to make sure it happened. The umpires and MLB should have ensured it. It's not a manager's job in my opinion to keep the other team "straight." I know Tony doesn't promote cheating on the Cardinals and has called suspected cheaters out of the game before. Tavarez was one that got caught cheating - and the cards made sure to let him go... The cardinals do not like cheaters.

Agreed, LaRussa's (sorry for previous mis(s?:))pelling) responsibility is his own integrity and that of his team and how their actions impact the game.


Baseball and cheating has been going on since baseball started. I've been watching the Ken Burns documentary on baseball - and boy - the cheating used to be much worse in my opinion.

Cheating is a shame--which was really my point in the first place--it ruins the game. In my opinion, the level of cheating is probablythe same now as it was back then, only now it is in different areas that are harder to detect.

I'm not trying to make a 'good old days' argument anyway--I shouldn't have premised my previous remarks as I did regarding 'remembering a time.' In all ages, men are known by keeping their word and walking in integrity or they are not. It ebbs and flows but over time probably remains more constant than we tend to think it does. I think I remember a post by Milt regarding the concept of 'true competition' in regards to world soccer and American sports (I think comparing soccer to American football) and I remember thinking his comments were very sage at the time.


What's funny is at one time the curve ball used to be considered cheating and was not allowed. Harvard's baseball team won a championship back in the 1800s and the Dean of the college wrote that he was ashamed of them winning because it was said the pitcher won by "deceiving" the other team with a curve ball.

Yes, when definitions of terms begin to change, there is always some difficulty accepting the new definitions. Over time, we become inured to the changes and adopt them as culture dictates. Imagine having a discussion about the gay-nineties with a teenager today; not to mention those claiming enlightenment who cannot even agree on a coherently stable meaning of the term 'hyper-calvinism'--or "common grace," for that matter.


I would have no problem with pine tar being used IF all pitchers were allowed to use it. Some of the rules are ridiculous. A bit of pine tar shouldn't hurt the game.... In the "dead ball" era of baseball - there used to be a lot more movement because pitchers used foreign substances regularly. In fact, the same ball was used throughout the entire game. It was spit upon, scuffed, scraped, and pine tar was used regularly. It wasn't until someone was killed after being beaned in the head was the baseball changed (they could be hit out of the infield finally!) and scuffs or foreign substances were completely banned.

Yes, the only real way to combat cheating is to change the rules (or definitions of terms) to make it legal for everyone. Pretty soon, gene-altering therapy will engineer our athlete's athletic abilities and the competition will really be among the best chemists.


I was upset that Detroit was allowed to use Pine Tar in the cold weather and the Cards pitchers were not. If everyone is "secretly" using pine tar, that would be alright if it was simply accepted by all teams, players, and umpires. The problem is, it hurts the integrity of the game, and if someone is caught breaking the rules on the big stage, then yes, it looks very bad.

Not only does it look bad, it is morally reprehensible! Winning is the name of the game and when millions of dollars ride on it....; now, might there be some legal basis for a fraud charge?


Baseball is very peculiar. I'm not excusing Kenny Rogers at all - I think he should have been suspended - but I'm glad that the Cards beat him without him being ejected. He was not allowed to pitch game 5 here in St. Louis because of the jeering and unbelievably harsh environment he'd have to face. He could have won game 5 for Detroit and then made it easier for the less experienced pitchers to win back at home in Detroit. But instead - he did not get to pitch game 5, and the Tigers lost the series. It just goes to show you, cheating will come back to bite you - so don't try it.

Agreed. However, I believe the Cards would have won regardless--their players delivered when the time came. And still, the question remains: was the incident truly handled with integrity? In my opinion, no--but that still does not take anything away from the Cardinal's achievement as a team--nor add anything to it. It merely relfects the nature of the game today. In the future, the incident will probably be remembered more for what wasn't done. It will be interesting to see what happens to the umpires involved. I haven't seen a story on that yet (not that I have been looking very hard).


If I were a Detroit Tigers fan, I'd be very ashamed of the organization. It's one thing if your main pitcher gets caught cheating on National TV in such a large event. It's another thing to not do anything about it. The Detroit Tigers management FAILED their fans who have followed them all year. Detroit could have held their heads high had they lost the world series after punishing Rogers. But instead, the Tigers can only hang their heads in shame after losing Game 5 in St. Louis. They are losers - and it's not because they lost 4 baseball games - but because they lost it while cheating!

Agreed! However, the disease remains. This year it was the Tigers, in 1924 it was the 'Black Sox.' The '68 Tiger stars Mickey Lolich's and Denny McClain's off-field endeavors belied their 'integrity.' Pete Rose, well, nuff said. Babe's and Hank's accomplishments have been eclipsed by chemically engineered athleticism.

I recall a few years ago that baseball's support was really in the toilet. Some might be justified in claiming that the only reason baseball has enjoyed it's current rise in popularity is the advent of performance enhancing drugs and the resultant 'performances' of the recent crop of steroided athletes.

While justice was done in this instance and Detroit will have to deal with the reality of publicly losing their integrity, I'm glad you had a chance to participate in history and that you had such a great time. As you said, it was time for some payback and the Cards delivered. As fans, we all need to keep after those responsible and demand a level of integrity (obviously, it cannnot be complete integrity anymore) or stop supporting the game.

Washington Kid
10-30-06, 06:10 PM
I think LaRussa is a class act. He really knows the game of baseball. He makes the most of situations (small ball- moving the runners, sacrifice, etc.). He didn't rush into the situation and do sometihing that he may have later regretted. I think that's called maturity. Wildboar you mentioned previously that people like firefighters, policemen, etc. ( I think that's who you meant) should get paid more than ballplayers. Well bro- that's not the players fault! If one feels that, then they need to elect local officals who will boost their pay, etc. That's done on the political field, not the baseball field. I'm not being critical of your concern; just giving you my 2 cents worth. Sports keep alot of kids who have parents that don't care for them off drugs, teaches them values, etc. Hey WB jr. might be a future baseball player! Also bro- about it being a child's game: ever try to hit a baseball "sizzling" at you @ 100 mph (they do make a sizzle sound coming in) with a bat? God gifts these players for some of us to enjoy! If you don't like it- don't play and don't pay- that's free market bro!!!!!!........KK:cool: