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Christ_†_Alone
10-20-01, 07:59 PM
This issue touches me and my family deeply, so we have created a website HERE (http://members.tripod.com/~Carla_B/halloween.html) for those who may be dealing with their own concerns over it, as well.

Word Walker
10-24-01, 02:18 PM
I've read in a few places that there are some Christians who have a problem with Halloween. I thought I'd post part of a message I've read from the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry on this subject. http://www.carm.org

This portion of the message was found at: http://www.carm.org/questions/halloween.htm if you're looking for more information then try going here.

_________________________

Can the Christian celebrate Halloween?

The answer is simple: Yes and No. Let’s look at the negative first.
The Christian is not to be involved with or support the occult, witchcraft, demonism, or any other thing that uplifts the occult. To do so is to contradict God’s word, dabble in demonic spirits, and invite judgment from God. If a Halloween celebration is centered on demons, devils, spirits, etc., I would say don't have anything to do with it.
On the other hand, it isn't wrong to dress up in a costume and go door-to-door saying 'Trick or Treat." Provided that the costume isn't demonic, I can't see anything wrong with this. It's just fun for the kids.
Take a look at the Christmas tree. It was originally an ancient fertility symbol. Yet, it has become a representation of Christmas and the place where gifts are placed. Are the Christians, then, paying homage to an ancient pagan fertility god? No. Not at all. They do not consider it pagan at all and are simply joining in on a cultural event and giving no honor to anything unbiblical.
In the Bible in 1 Cor. 10:23-33, Paul speaks about meat sacrificed to idols. This meat was often sold in the meat market and the question arose, "Should a Christian each such meat?"
Paul said in verse 25, "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for conscience' sake." This is most interesting. He says it is okay to eat the meat bought in the market place even though that meat may have been sacrificed to idols.
Then in verses 28-29 he says, "But if anyone should say to you, 'This is meat sacrificed to idols,' do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" (NASB). Paul is saying that if you find out the meat was sacrificed to idols, don't eat it -- not because of you, but because of the other person. In other words, eating that meat won't affect you. But, it may affect the attitude of another who does not understand the freedom the Christian has in Christ.
Is it any different with Halloween (or Christmas)? No. Even though Halloween has pagan origins, because of your freedom in Christ, you and/or you kids can dress up in costumes and go door-to-door and just have fun. However, if you are not comfortable with doing this, then you should not. If you know of a person who would be stumbled by doing it, then you shouldn't either.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, what this is saying is, it's not what someone in the past has done on this day or what it meant to them but rather what you bring to it and what it means to you.




__________________
Your Brother in Christ,
Walker

Word Walker
10-25-01, 04:43 PM
....On halloween day.

Taken from: http://www.victorious.org/chur40.htm

______

.........The move toward reformation began to emerge on the eve of All Saints Day, October 31, 1517, when Martin Luther announced a disputation regarding the indulgences of the church. He stated his argument in 95 theses which he posted on the north door of the Castle Church in Wittenburg — an act not especially unusual as the church doors were often used as a notice board.........

_________

jpd
10-20-02, 09:29 PM
I tend to doubt that children who have fun with costumes and pumpkins during halloween have anything more to do with the occult and witchcraft then the secular world has to do with celebrating Christ's birth when they promote Santa Claus and presents during Christmas.

Brandan
10-21-02, 05:28 AM
5solas.org has its very own article on Halloween....

http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=193

countrymouse
10-31-02, 10:52 AM
I'd like to add to these an article I received by e-mail yesterday:


Holidays and Holy days


(What every Christian should know about Halloween)
Gal 4:8-11 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? YOU ARE OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS AND MONTHS AND SEASONS AND YEARS! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. EZEKIEL 44:23 "AND THEY SHALL TEACH MY PEOPLE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HOLY AND THE PROFANE, AND CAUSE THEM TO DISCERN BETWEEN THE UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN." THE FESTIVAL OF DEATH
Even as far back as 300 years before the birth of Jesus, the Celtic civilization celebrated the Festival of Samhain on October 31st. Samhain is their God of Death and their most powerful god. Every year on this day, they believe, the old year dies and the new year begins. It is the Celtic New Year, as well as the Festival of Samhain, the Festival of Death. He is particularly honored on this day, but more especially on this night; and the great climactic moment will come at midnight. Darkness, fear and death prevail; many human sacrifices are to be presented to Samhain, and midnight is the high moment of the year for divination, spiritism and sorcery of all kinds. Darkness is deepest, and death more sovereign tonight than at any other time of the year, and midnight is the climax. THE BIRTH OF HALLOWEEN
In the eighth century the Pope, in an attempt to get the people to abandon the festival of Samhain and all its occult, idolatrous practices, established All Saints Day on November 1st. This was never a Christian holiday, but a Catholic holiday to worship and pray to the Saints who were dead, which is idolatry, even though they were honoring those who had been martyrs in the terrible Roman persecutions. He apparently hoped that the similarity of meaning would cause the people to accept All Saints Day as a substitute and abandon the Festival of Death. But it didn't work. As a matter of fact, this attempt to end Samhain follows us and causes trouble to this day, because its location on the calender has led many people to believe that Samhain is a Christian observance. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This is how it evolved:
In the British Isles:
All Saints Day came to be called "All Halloweds" since it was a day to worship all the "hallowed ones", the Christian dead. Since Samhain always occurred the evening before All halloweds, it came to be called "All Halloweds Evening" or just "Halloweds E'en." From this it evolved to "Hallows E'en" and, finally, to "Halloween" as we know it today. Because of the relationship in the names, and the adjacent dates, many today entertain the completely unfounded idea that Halloween is somehow a Christian holiday. This has made it much easier for the ungodly festival to move right into the churches each October and flourish there, spreading its occult poison.
In the Middle Ages.
In the midst of the darkness that prevailed during the Middle Ages there was a mighty revival of witchcraft and Satanism. During this time there developed the belief that on October 31st witches traveled to their covens flying on brooms, guided by evil spirits in the form of black cats. There was a great outpouring of satanic power, and as all the old practices continued, some new ones developed; the Festival of Death continued without interruption as the most important day (night) of the year for witches and all Satanists, deepening the darkness that already covered the Earth, as a corrupted weakened Church was ineffective in opposing it.
In the New World.
When our Puritan ancestors came to the New World in the seventeenth century, they strictly forbad all such occult practices and pagan festivals. Among the Puritans there was no Festival of Death, there was no Saturnalia, there were no May poles, no Midsummer Night, nor any such things; they were well aware of the satanic origins, nature and dangers of them. They may have been harsh, but at least they nourished no vipers in the bosom of the Church.
Then in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, there came a flood of Celtic immigrants to the New World, mostly from the British isles, and they brought with their folk beliefs and pagan superstitions; they brought with them Samhain, the Festival of Death.
The Jack-o-lantern: Hundreds of years before Christ, on Halloween night each Druid dressed in hooded robes and has slung over his shoulder on a cord, a large, hallowed-out turnip with an oil lamp burning inside. Carved into the side of the hollow turnip is as face, the likeness of the demon spirit that dwells inside. This spirit is the Druid's spirit guide, his personal little god, who directs and empowers his life.
When the Celtics immigrated to the New World they found pumpkins, much easier to hollow out and carve than turnips. Among the English-speaking Celts the hollowed turnip or pumpkin was known as "Jock (or Jack) of the Lantern." referring to the spirit guide (Jock or Jack) who lived in them. Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Utterly abhor and detest it, for it is set apart for destruction. Deu 7:26
"Trick or Treating":
The Druids of old adhered to strange dietary restrictions, and on the night of the Festival of Death they go from home to home demanding these peculiar foods. If the people comply, they pass on in silence; if their demands are not met, the people and their home are cursed with trouble, sickness and death.
The wearing of masks and costumes also came from the Druids. During this night of rituals they sacrificed animals (and sometimes humans). Often they wore the skins of these animals. Dressed in this way, they would engage in fortune telling. Villagers also dressed in hideous masks and costumes in an effort to disguise themselves from the spirits.
Bobbing For Apples:
Since Samhain was the beginning of the new year, much divining was done concerning the coming year, and many things were done to invoke "good luck" (which meant finding favor with the evil spirtits) for the coming year. A very popular form of this was to kneel around a tub of water with apples floating in it, and the first one who could get one out without using hands or teeth would have good favor with the spirits in the coming year. Then each woud peel his (or her) apple, trying to get the peel off in one piece (which gave the peeling particular power, and gained special favor with the spirits).
Bonfires originally came from these nights of human and animal sacrifices where they would throw the remains of the bodies into the fire. The next morning all that was left were the ashes and bones. Thus the name of these fires were called "bonefires".
The Conclusion.
Halloween is and always was the devils holiday! There never was nor has there ever been anything Christian about it, but he has somehow duped many Christians into embracing it and accepting it as our own!
Remember a war is never one by compromise. The Bible says a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough. We should not even attempt to have some sort of a "substitute" that mimics what they do, by calling it a harvest party, celebrating it on or next to the actual date, dressing up and doing what the pagans do and calling it by another name. Deu 12:3 "Break down their alters, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asheral poles (in America we call them May Poles) in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places. YOU MUST NOT WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD IN THEIR WAY." We celebrate the harvest and give thanks to the Lord every November which is called "Thanksgiving". The Bible says to "deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him." If we can't deny ourselves celebrating Satan's Holiday then how can we make it through persecution and the trials that the Bible says we will have to endure. It is not "legalism" to love the Lord and not want to grieve him by going against what he says in the Scriptures. To teach our children to imitate the practices of witches and Satanists is to give glory to Satan and what he stands for by reenacting what they do. It will also teach our children to compromise and to be like the world which the Bible says NOT to be like. We cannot serve two masters (Luke 16:13). Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." We have a great responsibility in raising God's children. They are His and we will be answerable to Him regarding this. Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves." Remember, though God is forgiving and loves us greatly. 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Chr 7:14 says, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will for give their sin and will heal their land." and 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." And finally, John 8:32 says, "Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" The scriptural denunciation of all such pagan practices is so overwhelming that I have just included a small percentage of what the Word says about it. In light of the facts and the following scriptures you need to make a decision: ". . .Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve. . .But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15 Additional Scriptures: Deu 18:9-13:
When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to IMITATE the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord, and because of these detestable practices the Lord your God will drive out those nations before your. You must be blameless before the Lord your God.
1 Cor 10:20-21:
I say the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.
Gal 4:8-11:
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
1 Pet 4:1-3:
Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
Eph 5:6-11:
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Rom 13:12:
The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.
Joshua 7:11-13 (Amplified):
Israel has sinned; they have transgressed My covenant which I commanded them; they have taken of the things devoted (for destruction); they have stolen, and lied, and put them among their own baggage. That is why the Israelites could not stand before their enemies, but fled before them; they are accursed (devoted) things among you. Up, sanctify yourselves for tomorrow; for thus says the Lord, the God of Israel. There is an accursed thing in the midst of you, O Israel; you can not stand before your enemies until you take away from among you the thing devoted (to destruction.)
Gal 6:7-8:
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked, a man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
1 John 2:3:
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Titus 2:12:
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age. .
1 John 2:6:
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did. This page may be reproduced in its entirety for circulation as "freeware".

Jesusislove
11-13-02, 08:16 PM
I have often suspected that bobbing for apples was corrupting our youth. Thank you for this article. Next time little Timmy wants to dress up like Spider-Man, he's going to get the backside of my hand!

Nevermind that Christmas, Easter, and Valentine's Day are based on pagan holidays...this Halloween is evil! EVIL!!!

Fledge
11-13-02, 11:39 PM
Oh, now that's a good, lovely attitude you are exhibiting.

countrymouse
11-14-02, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Jesusislove
I have often suspected that bobbing for apples was corrupting our youth. Thank you for this article. Next time little Timmy wants to dress up like Spider-Man, he's going to get the backside of my hand!

Nevermind that Christmas, Easter, and Valentine's Day are based on pagan holidays...this Halloween is evil! EVIL!!!

Interesting communication techniques you have, JIL. I found the article informative, and passed it on as information that others might like to have. It had never before occured to me to wonder where bobbing for apples came from. We do and say many things without having any idea why.

As for Christmas, Easter, and Valentine's Day: Halloween and it's trappings are not quite the same as C or E. The church tried to divert the peoples' attention from the celebration of Samhain by instituting All Saint's day, not a day to pray to the Saints, but a day to remember and be grateful for those who had gone before. It's unfortunate that it didn't quite work.

As for commemorating the coming of the Messiah at the darkest time of the year, how appropriate! For He surely came to deliver His people from the darkness of sin and death.

Easter? I think the bunny and eggs are for the pagans. I know that some have come to associate the name with the pagan goddess "Ishtar," but what of Esther, who typified Christ by risking her own life, rescuing her people?

Valentine's? I know next to nothing about its background, and it's not celebrated in my church or in my home. Goes by without notice.

Personally, I'd prefer not to participate in Halloween celebration, but I'm not your mother, and you can do as you please.

-cm

disciple
11-14-02, 11:24 AM
i've thought about this one a bit and have went back and forth several times over the past years (since having children). i think i've come to the conclusion that it is just another day and while it can be dangerous that it's harmless to let your kids dress up and go around the neighborhood and collect candy. what other day is there in the year that can you ring someone's doorbell and expect them to give you stuff?! ;) i read a really balanced article (i think this was it-http://www.wilstar.com/holidays/hallown2.htm) a week or so before this past halloween from a non-Christian perspective and it was quite good. quite unlike many fundamentalist Christian railings i've read against (prohibiting) involvement in the "holiday." i think as long as the church doesn't embrace it as a religious holiday that there is nothing wrong with it. but that's just my opinion and i'm sure others here have their own lists and opinions as well. i just thought i'd throw mine into the pot :D

countrymouse
11-14-02, 11:32 AM
Glad you jumped into the discussion, disciple! :)

I went back and forth about it quite a bit over the years. Our kids put on costumes and went trick-or-treating; I didn't quite feel ok about it but it was something the rest of the family just expected (husband, my parents), and something all their friends were doing.

The year we carved the Jack-o-lantern and lit it, though, I honestly felt as though I was doing something pagan. And a church we used to attend does the bonfire thing, and that didn't feel right either. I still don't like thinking about either one of those.

I'm hoping that my kids won't perpetuate the practice with theirs. But that's just my 2 cents on the subject.

-cm

disciple
11-14-02, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by countrymouse
Glad you jumped into the discussion, disciple! :)
thanks glad to share my opinion.


I went back and forth about it quite a bit over the years.
me too. at first i was adamantly against it saying it was evil and that my kids WILL NOT participate in this pagan holiday. but recently i've just thought that while some of it's practices are evil and such, that the day is really what you make it. i think one needs to be extremely careful to communicate to your children about it, to protect them from the scarey costumes and images and vandalism, and be sure to curb the greed and carnality that can result. so i'm not trying to be flippant about it as if it's a non-issue but i think that it is one of those very gray areas that each Christian needs to decide for himself and have his reasons but not judge other Christians if their beliefs/practices in this area don't match up.

Brandan
11-14-02, 11:45 AM
All I want to know by those who believe halloween is an accepted practice for Christians is this...

How does celebrating halloween glorify God? How does letting "your kids dress up and go around the neighborhood and collect candy" glorify Him?

To me, I believe that teaches your kids that it's good to go around TAKING candy from the lost... that it's easier to just walk around and get things by looking cute rather than working hard.

To me, I believe that teaches your kids to set their minds on the things of this world rather than the things of God.

No, there isn't anything wrong with receiving a gift of candy or enjoying an activity... But when that activity takes their eyes off of Christ, it is no longer an activity of Christian liberty, but one of sin.

I wonder what's next? Will we teach our children about Santa Clause also?

disciple
11-14-02, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by kermie
How does celebrating halloween glorify God? How does letting "your kids dress up and go around the neighborhood and collect candy" glorify Him?
i don't think it does. but does everything you do glorify God? do you play video games? do you enjoy an occasional movie? do you have hobbies? do all these things glorify God? probably not but maybe. glorifying God is not merely the act but the heart. eating and drinking does not glorify God in and of itself but the attitude and heart is what is important when you eat or drink or whatever you do, making sure you do all to the glory of God.


To me, I believe that teaches your kids that it's good to go around TAKING candy from the lost... that it's easier to just walk around and get things by looking cute rather than working hard.
that's why i said you need to communicate with them and curb the greed and carnality that can result. it is a great opportunity for the parent to teach their children and apply God's principles within the milieu of life. i don't think the two are mutually exclusive (receiving a gift and working hard). anytime someone receives a gift, the very nature of the exchange is that you did not work for it.


To me, I believe that teaches your kids to set their minds on the things of this world rather than the things of God.
perhaps. that is why i think open communication and much instruction from God's word in the milieu of life is crucial. we've made it a family affair with some friends of ours where we the moms stay home and make caramel corn while the kids get dressed up and go out with the dads. then we all come back and eat the caramel corn, have cider, and enjoy each other's company.


No, there isn't anything wrong with receiving a gift of candy or enjoying an activity... But when that activity takes their eyes off of Christ, it is no longer an activity of Christian liberty, but one of sin.
and one can do this while eating and drinking and that is why paul gives his admonition in 1 co 10:31. it is assumed that one might not glorify God in their eating and drinking. this applies to anything a Christian does. it's not the act but the heart.


I wonder what's next? Will we teach our children about Santa Clause also?
i don't see this as the necessary outcome of letting your kids get dressed up and collect candy on halloween.

countrymouse
11-14-02, 12:05 PM
For what it's worth, I'll share what I told my kids about Santa Claus. When they wanted to know whether he was real, I said, "yes." But I told them that the suit and the North Pole stuff and reindeer and all that was made up. I told them the story of St. Nicholas giving gifts to children because God gave us Jesus, and how all the pretend stuff was added to that to get people to go out and buy lots of gifts for their kids at Christmas. And that yes, just like most other parents, their mom and dad had gone along with it. But then I got them involved in our church's angel tree. We get names of kids from our local schools who need things such as food and coats, who won't otherwise get anything for Christmas. Then families in our church "adopt" these children and provide food and gifts that their moms or dads can come and pick up. We always include at least one toy as well. Then there are wealthier families who provide the more expensive items, such as bicycles.

I also recall one year when we were homeschooling, and they had both been particularly difficult as the holiday season approached. Realizing this, they both came to me and said, "I don't deserve anything this year." I told them they were right, they didn't! But I also told them that we didn't give them gifts at Christmas because they deserved them, but because we love them, and that God didn't give us Jesus because we deserved Him, but because He chose to out of love for us.

To sum up, now it's not so much about what they get, but about giving from the heart to honor Christ.

disciple
11-14-02, 01:00 PM
here's that article:

http://www.historychannel.com/cgi-bin/frameit.cgi?p=http%3A//www.historychannel.com/exhibits/halloween/hallowmas.html

Havoc
02-02-03, 01:22 AM
Unfortunately Christians don't seem to have a lot of good information of the origins and history of Halloween. Just a couple off the top of my head,

There is no Celtic God named Samhain. Samhain is a Gaelic word which means "Summers End". Samhain is the name of a Day of celebration.

Trick-or-treat is not a Druidic tradition it's a Christian one. It derives from the custom of the Cathoolic church that believes one can lessen the time spent by loved ones in purgatory by praying for them. On All Saints Day the poor would go door to door begging for food in exchange for praying for the dead of the wealthy. The food items were known as "soul cakes".

Brandan
02-02-03, 02:45 PM
I would consider "catholic" tradition to be "non-christian" tradition. So to me, either way, it's still bad.

Havoc
02-02-03, 06:20 PM
And undoubtedly Catholics would consider you to be nonChristian as well.

But the problem is that misinformation is dangerous. It leads to a variety of injustices and problems, no the least of which for Christians would be commission of the Sin of False Witness.

disciple
02-02-03, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Havoc
And undoubtedly Catholics would consider you to be nonChristian as well.

But the problem is that misinformation is dangerous. It leads to a variety of injustices and problems, no the least of which for Christians would be commission of the Sin of False Witness.

the problem with tracing the origins of a holiday such as halloween is that in america it is a brand of its own taking on flavors from a plethora of different traditions due to the immigrating of all different cultures here early on in the nation's history. this complicates things making it very difficult to trace. much of it, on all sides, is speculation b/c it's not like one person kept a meticulous record on how it progressed and evolved into what it is today. one must attempt to recreate and reproduce a faithful history or representation of the facts with very sketchy details.

perhaps you think you've got the complete and fully factual history of it but i'm not so sure that you wouldn't be basing your "opinion" of it on someone else's research (who would have had to try and sort all all the sketchy details of it). i think we should be aware of what we're dealing with and that we should be honest with the level of ignorance we all have on a study such as this one. i'm not arguing for any particular view of the history of halloween...just saying that we should be gracious about it and not assume we possess the sum of all knowledge on the subject (even if one is a practicing Celtic witch ;))

here is a fair and balanced article IMHO. please tell us if you think the history channel is committing the "Sin of False Witness." remember there is such a thing as sensationalism in the opposite direction. we need to make sure that we're being fair and treating this in an even-handed fashion.

http://www.historychannel.com/cgi-bin/frameit.cgi?p=http%3A//www.historychannel.com/exhibits/halloween/hallowmas.html

here's an example of the speculatory and syncretistic nature of the issue (excerpts from above):


"On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth...

It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday...

The American tradition of "trick-or-treating" probably dates back to the early All Souls' Day parades in England. During the festivities, poor citizens would beg for food and families would give them pastries called "soul cakes" in return for their promise to pray for the family's dead relatives...

The tradition of dressing in costume for Halloween has both European and Celtic roots...

As the beliefs and customs of different European ethnic groups, as well as the American Indians, meshed, a distinctly American version of Halloween began to emerge...

disciple
02-03-03, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Havoc
There is no Celtic God named Samhain. Samhain is a Gaelic word which means "Summers End". Samhain is the name of a Day of celebration.
here are a couple of websites about this:

http://members.tripod.com/~TaraMiller/halloween.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm

just an FYI - i would venture to guess that much of the stuff that comes out of Christian circles about this is due to ignorance and zeal rather than evil motives or malice and probably the majority of misinformation comes from reading someone else's research (i.e., compiling information and research from multiple places to write a position paper) and just perpetuating (unintentionally) the error that someone else made. so i wouldn't be too quick to impugn all Christians with evil motives in this regard havoc. just like Christians should be careful on their end, so should you be careful from yours.

ron2t
03-28-03, 05:57 PM
as a former catholic i let my children do halloween but after I repented and Jesus saved me, i saw the real meaning of halloween. now i attend a baptist church and i believe the bible is the inspired, infallable inerrant word of God.:)

AbsoluteBubba
06-23-03, 09:12 AM
Hi all,

Since I have seen several give their $.02, I'll give mine too. Maybe we can come up with a dime. Since becoming a Christian, my children (5 & 7) do not celebrate Halloween, for much the same reasons that I have seen given in this thread. Of course, my our families thought we were going off the religious deep-end. Here is an article that we found to be very informative.
A Pastoral Word on Halloween (http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/halloween.htm)
Oh, and our Children also know about St. Nicholas the Wonder-worker, on whom Santa Claus is fashioned. Thank you Countrymouse for mentioning that.

Grace & Peace,
Absolute Bubba

Havoc
09-04-03, 07:57 PM
Unfortunatly Bishop Kyril seems to be drawing from the same erroneous material as most other Christians. Once again there was no Samhain, God of Death etc.

Most of the rest of his descriptions of Celtic society are just as innacurate.

Bottom line is Samhain (halloween) is a Pagan celebration. Christians are forbidden to practice other religions or participate in their days so they should not celebrate Halloween. The fact that it's another religion is enough, it's not necessary to make up tales of how "evil" other religions are. That is false witness.

Oh BTW, you probably shouldn't celebrate Easter, Christmas, or May day either.

countrymouse
09-17-03, 10:11 AM
Well, with fall approaching and the holiday season about to begin, I've been thinking about all this, off and on. Thanks, Havoc, btw, for setting us straight about Samhain.

When my parents put my brother and me in costumes and either took us or allowed us to go trick-or-treating, it was nothing to them but a cultural (American) affair. They did it because everyone else did. Not the best reason to do any particular thing, mind you, but they didn't know anything about the roots of the holiday, and as Baptists, neither did they connect it with All Saints' Day, since our church didn't celebrate that. How culpable were they, then, being ignorant?

Something occured to me, too, as interesting. Kind of ironic, actually. Not that I'm advocating that any of us celebrate Halloween, of course, but who else besides those who are in Christ have any reason to laugh at death?

My dad's family has buried two members within the last week and a half; Dad's youngest living brother, and the husband of one of his sisters. Although we already miss them, it was a profound experience to see so large a family (14 siblings and/or their offspring) affirm so unanimously the assurance that these two are now more alive than they ever were before and that we will eventually be reunited with them. They may not be perfect, and they may not be studied or accredited theologians, but their faith is real. I've seen too much to have any doubt about it. Some (probably most) of these people will be taking the kids or grandkids trick-or-treating, having chosen to ignore all the fuss about where the practice came from. I really don't think their salvation stands or falls on it.

Christ_†_Alone
09-20-03, 08:56 AM
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Each has to ask himself, is he "careful to maintain good works"?

Is participation in a festival that glorifies evil, fear, and violence, maintaining good works?

If participation is modified, not to dress in fearful or gory attire, is that okay? How about changing the name to a fall festival, or holding the event in a church? Or is that simply making provision to continue participation?

I'm all for Christian liberty - but like all things we do, say, and get involved with, each of us has to ask ourselves, "does this please God, and/or glorify Him in any way?"

God bless you as you consider this issue...

GraceAmbassador
09-20-03, 10:05 AM
Christ_†_Alone states:


I'm all for Christian liberty - but like all things we do, say, and get involved with, each of us has to ask ourselves, "does this please God, and/or glorify Him in any way?"

I say: Great word and thought provoking question!

My scripture to sustain your point is 1 Corinthians 6:12 in the "Miltonian" translation (Milton is my first name...)

1 Corinthians 6:12

ALL THINGS ARE OKAY WITH ME BUT NOT NECESSARILY CONVENIENT TO ME. ALL THINGS OKAY FOR ME BUT I WILL NOT LET MYSELF TO BE DOMINATED BY ANY OF THEM.

As someone who has seen the dreadful results of so called INNOCENT involvement in cults, I would not recommend ANYONE for participating with a feast that started with the Druids.

Churches organize what they call HALLELLUYAH parties during the halloween season, Christian Web sites in free servers allow Halloween products to be advertised and so on and so forth.

These apparent innocent involvements become the "small shot" of alcohol that made a seemingly normal dude into a "well known notorious drunk" alluded to as an "alcoholic ANONIMOUS". One can trigger a downfall just as the other.

Let us not be legalistic. We live in Grace. But LET US NOT allow ourselfves to be doing the very things that the Grace of God delivered us from.

Churches have plenty of time to hold Hallelluyah parties. This is certainly NOT THE TIME. I quesstion the wisdom of it!

Finally brethren, let us not do as Saul, who stripped himself of his royal robes, put on a disguise and went to see the medium. Remember how he was recognized, because what you put on does not cancel out what you ARE. God and the devil know who you are. The devil told the sons of Skeva: "I know Jesus and Paul, but who are you?" He knows God's servants but has no idea whom his own servants are. He does not care for those who are already serving him. But he will know the servants of God when they come against him. So let us not as servants of God give him a victory by going in his favor by participating in festivals that are not promoted by God's word.
Embarassment, humiliation and shame to the name of true Christianity may befall us when we strip ourselves of OUR ROBES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS by partipating in festivals not sanctioned by the Bible. We have been called OUT not "in". Paul says that we have been "translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son". We are here but at the same time we are not! Let's act and proceed as someone who already IS IN THE KINGODOM OF HIS DEAR SON.

I know this sounds "preachy" but perhaps someone can use it to help someone or just ignore it and go "trick or treating", which is in a very plain sense a damaging LIE since no one cannot trick anyone in trade of a treat.

Thanks!

Milt

ron2t
09-20-03, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by GraceAmbassador
Christ_†_Alone states:
thank you for the good explanation.


I say: Great word and thought provoking question!

My scripture to sustain your point is 1 Corinthians 6:12 in the "Miltonian" translation (Milton is my first name...)

1 Corinthians 6:12

ALL THINGS ARE OKAY WITH ME BUT NOT NECESSARILY CONVENIENT TO ME. ALL THINGS OKAY FOR ME BUT I WILL NOT LET MYSELF TO BE DOMINATED BY ANY OF THEM.

As someone who has seen the dreadful results of so called INNOCENT involvement in cults, I would not recommend ANYONE for participating with a feast that started with the Druids.

Churches organize what they call HALLELLUYAH parties during the halloween season, Christian Web sites in free servers allow Halloween products to be advertised and so on and so forth.

These apparent innocent involvements become the "small shot" of alcohol that made a seemingly normal dude into a "well known notorious drunk" alluded to as an "alcoholic ANONIMOUS". One can trigger a downfall just as the other.

Let us not be legalistic. We live in Grace. But LET US NOT allow ourselfves to be doing the very things that the Grace of God delivered us from.

Churches have plenty of time to hold Hallelluyah parties. This is certainly NOT THE TIME. I quesstion the wisdom of it!

Finally brethren, let us not do as Saul, who stripped himself of his royal robes, put on a disguise and went to see the medium. Remember how he was recognized, because what you put on does not cancel out what you ARE. God and the devil know who you are. The devil told the sons of Skeva: "I know Jesus and Paul, but who are you?" He knows God's servants but has no idea whom his own servants are. He does not care for those who are already serving him. But he will know the servants of God when they come against him. So let us not as servants of God give him a victory by going in his favor by participating in festivals that are not promoted by God's word.
Embarassment, humiliation and shame to the name of true Christianity may befall us when we strip ourselves of OUR ROBES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS by partipating in festivals not sanctioned by the Bible. We have been called OUT not "in". Paul says that we have been "translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son". We are here but at the same time we are not! Let's act and proceed as someone who already IS IN THE KINGODOM OF HIS DEAR SON.

I know this sounds "preachy" but perhaps someone can use it to help someone or just ignore it and go "trick or treating", which is in a very plain sense a damaging LIE since no one cannot trick anyone in trade of a treat.

Thanks!

Milt

countrymouse
09-22-03, 09:23 AM
Carla,

As always, I greatly appreciate that you pray for me. Rest assured that I do not celebrate Halloween or advocate that anyone else should. I'm just not going to ask at family get-togethers who did and who didn't, or look down my nose at Christians who do.

Ron, did you intend to just copy and paste?

GA, using all caps is considered rude; it's called shouting. For emphasis you can use italics instead. There are instructions available through the F.A.Q. link at the top of the page.

cm

GraceAmbassador
09-22-03, 12:11 PM
Dear Brother Countrymouse:


GA, using all caps is considered rude; it's called shouting. For emphasis you can use italics instead. There are instructions available through the F.A.Q. link at the top of the page.

After 52 years of age and 35 of ministry and writing practically online since the internet was instituted, it is the first time that someone reads one of my posts and does not have any harsh criticism or anything else, good or bad, to say about what I write other than the fact that I used caps.

I do know the rules and have posted in other threads if you are really monitoring here and no one paid attention to it. However, your condescendence is probably even worse than anything I could use here or any internet etiquete I might have infringed.

At least I rejoice in the fact that, after all these years and two continents of ministry experience, no one criticized the thrust of my writing and that is probably a first and will go into my history as a first. I just hope and prayed that I did not "messed up" the kindergarden playground... nor soiled the robes of the novices...
:D

I did not mean to be rude and understand the rules very well. Sorry if this was so sensitive to you.

wildboar
09-22-03, 12:16 PM
Why would we want to celebrate Halloween when we can celebrate Reformation Day?:D October 31st is the day Martin Luther nailed the 95 theses on the church in Wittenburg. Many Lutheran and Reformed churches have special services or lectures. And if you really want to get into it, nail some theses on some doors of some apostate churches:p

Christ_†_Alone
09-22-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by countrymouse
I'm just not going to ask at family get-togethers who did and who didn't, or look down my nose at Christians who do.


Mouse,

this topic, more than any other, leaves me perplexed. Folks who read my posts so often come away feeling like I'm looking down my nose at them, as you suggested, and it's so far from being accurate, it just blows me away.

It is because I myself struggled with this issue for so long, that I totally and completely empathize with those who are also having issues with it. To look down my nose at other believers who are still involved in it, would technically make me a hypocrite of the worst kind! Ugh... may God never let that be true, I so hate hypocrisy!

I dont make a big deal out of this issue at family get-togethers, all my family members know we dont participate, and they respect that. I know some of them do, and I dont say anything to them - I dont need to - I've already said my piece, and I left it at that.

You should read some of the email I've been sent over the years, from folks who've read my testimony, found at the site in the parent note here. Some of it's been great, encouraging and supportive, but the majority of it, has been so vile, so hateful, and so cruel... and it's from Christians who are offended by testimony.

I think there is something more going on here... something maybe rooted in pride, or rebellion? The tone in these emails implies far more than just someone offended by my little opinion... it has to be more than that. I hate to even suggest that, because whenever I do, it tends to create even more hate-mail, or cries of "how dare you judge me!?!"

I like Boar's idea... get a hammer, a handful of nails, and go tack some lists to local churches, instead. :p

Bottom line..... pray about it, read the Scriptures given about it, and let the Lord lead you (anyone, not just you) exactly where He will...

countrymouse
09-22-03, 02:42 PM
Carla,

My response was not meant to be sarcastic or to imply that you look down your nose at anyone. I took your response to my post to be one of genuine concern, and I do understand where you're coming from. I remembered reading your posts last year about how you came to the position you did. Please forgive me, for I in no way intended to be flippant! I only wanted to make sure that you got the message that I don't condone Halloween. I wasn't sure that you understood that.

I can sympathize with how you feel about receiving hateful emails. I have gotten hateful responses to posts at times, but not by email - can't remember, but maybe my email address is not included in my profile.

One of the thlings I like best about you is that you refuse to be politically correct! I like that because I won't be, either - but you knew that. But I can't recall that you've been rude about it.

Brandan
09-22-03, 05:25 PM
Hi Milton,

I don't think Countrymouse (Dianne) was trying to be condenscending. I've known her long enough to know that she isn't that way. She truly is a sweet lady. I also think I know you well enough to know that you were not intending to be rude. It is considered improper netiquette not to use ALL CAPS because to some webbys like myself the practice is considered shouting. But knowing your character, I'm sure you just intended to emphasize your point rather than shout your message down our throats (and by the way, I heartily agree with your message and it SHOULD BE SHOUTED from the rooftops). And I also think Dianne recognized you weren't "shouting" because she suggested you use italics instead for emphasis.

So brethren, please do not take offense at each other; and my advice to everyone is to think the best of each other before you assume the worst.

In Christ,
Brandan

ron2t
09-22-03, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by GraceAmbassador
Dear Brother Countrymouse:

I'm doing some thing wrong aren't I?

After 52 years of age and 35 of ministry and writing practically online since the internet was instituted, it is the first time that someone reads one of my posts and does not have any harsh criticism or anything else, good or bad, to say about what I write other than the fact that I used caps.

I do know the rules and have posted in other threads if you are really monitoring here and no one paid attention to it. However, your condescendence is probably even worse than anything I could use here or any internet etiquete I might have infringed.

At least I rejoice in the fact that, after all these years and two continents of ministry experience, no one criticized the thrust of my writing and that is probably a first and will go into my history as a first. I just hope and prayed that I did not "messed up" the kindergarden playground... nor soiled the robes of the novices...
:D

I did not mean to be rude and understand the rules very well. Sorry if this was so sensitive to you.

Christ_†_Alone
09-23-03, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by countrymouse

One of the thlings I like best about you is that you refuse to be politically correct!

Politically correct...... UGH, may God forbid it! :(

I think we understand each other pretty well. :D

And Brandan...

can we just assume the other has pie, he is not willing to share, instead of assuming the worst? Oh wait... what can be worse, than a pie-hoarder? :eek:

Nevermind...

disciple
09-23-03, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by grebel
So brethren, please do not take offense at each other; and my advice to everyone is to think the best of each other before you assume the worst.
Amen brother! I think this is the most important thing here. I think this is where Romans 14 comes into play once again. When we interact on such emotionally charged discussions where it is up to us to decide what is right and wrong (for us and not for everyone else) and it involves the conscience and we are to walk by faith, we tend to think the worst of those who don't agree with our position. I think Brandan's advice can be applied to not only the exchange between CA and GA with the all caps but also to the whole area of celebrating Halloween. So please, think the best of each other before you assume the worst.

And remember, unity does not necessarily mean we all agree or that we all have the exact same conscience.

countrymouse
09-23-03, 12:37 PM
Milton, please forgive me for offending you. I meant to be helpful, not condescending. I have not spent very much time on the board for the last several months, for personal reasons. And I had no way of knowing how much experience you already had on the web. I would have made the same suggestion to anyone else.

Wildboar, I like your suggestion! Reformation Day is exactly what I celebrated last year, only, since my husband and teens are not much into church history, I celebrated it alone. Even so, it was wonderful!

Doug, thank you so very much for your post. You are so right!

And thanks, Brandan :)

Joy to all,
Dianne

countrymouse
10-22-03, 07:06 AM
There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the history of halloween; here is a link to a well-researched presentation of the facts and exposes the myths (some of which are apparantly deliberate). We want to be sure that we base our decisions and opinions on the truth.

-Dianne

disciple
10-22-03, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by countrymouse
There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the history of halloween; here is a link to a well-researched presentation of the facts and exposes the myths (some of which are apparantly deliberate). We want to be sure that we base our decisions and opinions on the truth.

-Dianne
no link...

countrymouse
10-22-03, 07:10 PM
oops!

http://www.illusions.com/halloween/hallows.htm

(sorry 'bout that)