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Thread: Good vs Evil...

  1. #41
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    well obviosly he was wrong, but what I am saying is, how could god put so much blame on him. Mistakes are man's greatest ways of approving his awareness....should that not be encouraged?
    CoWbOy CoRbY

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    Corbin:

    A mistake is a mistake. No Disobedience should not be encouraged. Again if kids were told to stay inside and not go outside to play. The ydo it anyways. Do you encourage this or discipline them? Also why is awareness so good? I would love to have not been made aware (by my own sins) some of the things I am aware of now. Awareness is not all that it is cracked up to be.
    blackhaw

  3. #43
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    What about when your child touches the red burner on a stove.

    He percieves the round burner to be a ball. All the red, round things hes seen have been bouncy balls. Should she be HARSHLY punished for touching the red burner? Not really, in my oppinion anyways. Burning your hand will teach you enough of a lesson not to do it again. The child's awareness is expanded, and now he knows something new.

    The only possible situation in where you cannot learn from your mistakes is scuicide. There is nothing to learn from that. Once you take your life, you are not given any oppurtunity to learn from that.

    For god to punish all of mankind for the disobedience of one man, well, how can you really justify that?
    CoWbOy CoRbY

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    corbin:

    "What about when your child touches the red burner on a stove.

    He percieves the round burner to be a ball. All the red, round things hes seen have been bouncy balls. Should she be HARSHLY punished for touching the red burner? Not really, in my oppinion anyways. Burning your hand will teach you enough of a lesson not to do it again. The child's awareness is expanded, and now he knows something new.

    The only possible situation in where you cannot learn from your mistakes is scuicide. There is nothing to learn from that. Once you take your life, you are not given any oppurtunity to learn from that.

    For god to punish all of mankind for the disobedience of one man, well, how can you really justify that?"

    First of all your example is off. The child in your example would have to have been told not to do it before hand. God told them not to do it. They did it and got burned. See it is not really God punishing us as much as we are getting the fruits of our actions. Adam's actions deserved death. that was the just consequence. God just did what was just. Really God is being merciful. At that moment Adam deserved to be gone. He deserved to be wiped off the face of the planet. He brought in evil to the world. now God instead of wiping Him out had mercy and let man stick around. He in fact gave Jesus as a sacrifce so that man would not have to spiritually die. See it is about God being merciful not God handing out harsh judgements.

    Also man is not ounished just becasue of one mans mistake. We sin also. Plus we have a sickness but the cure is right there within our reach. We just have to grab it. we just have to receive Him. if we do not want to take it that is our fault. Just like it is not the doctor's fault if i won't take my medicine.

    Does this make sense to you?

    blackhaw

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    Originally posted by kermie
    Romans 14:23 says, "Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." This is a radical indictment of all natural "virtue" that does not flow from a heart humbly relying on God's grace.

    In other words, all of you who think you are doing "good" by helping the old lady across the street just sinned. Do you know why? Because you did it for selfish reasons. When you give your money to the poor, do you give because you love God and want to glorify Him, or do you give because you want to feel good about yourself?
    I usually help people because they need it, not because I expect something in return or to feel good about myself. It's called benevolence. Besides, how would that person feel if in thanking me I just told them, "I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for someone else." I wouldn't be surprised if what I gave them they threw back in my face.

    What is sin? Anything that does not proceed from faith in the Living God. Let's not himhaw around this point. So, in the eyes of God, you are guilty before you are born. Why? Because you are born outside of faith. You are totatally depraved, and live in total rebellion against your Creator. You hate God. You are a sinner.
    A newborn baby cannot hate, let alone rebel against something it knows nothing about. These are learned emotions. I don't know about you, but when my children were born, "depraved" was the last thing I would describe them as. I had tears of joy at the beauty of life every time. "Depraved" is a term I save for people who are self-righteous know-it-alls that only do good for people when there's something in it for them (i.e. God's approval, heavenly crowns, saved from hell, etc.) and spout doubletalk about the world being totally worthless while claiming "life is precious".

  6. #46
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    Originally posted by questian
    I usually help people because they need it, not because I expect something in return or to feel good about myself. It's called benevolence. Besides, how would that person feel if in thanking me I just told them, "I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing it for someone else." I wouldn't be surprised if what I gave them they threw back in my face.
    Well the Bible says that anything you do outside of faith is Sin. Period. End of story. Why? Because God said so.

    A newborn baby cannot hate, let alone rebel against something it knows nothing about. These are learned emotions. I don't know about you, but when my children were born, "depraved" was the last thing I would describe them as. I had tears of joy at the beauty of life every time. "Depraved" is a term I save for people who are self-righteous know-it-alls that only do good for people when there's something in it for them (i.e. God's approval, heavenly crowns, saved from hell, etc.) and spout doubletalk about the world being totally worthless while claiming "life is precious".
    "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies." (Psalm 58:3)

    "Surely I have been a sinner from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" (Ps. 51:5)."

    "The intent of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Gen. 8:21).

    "And without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Heb. 11:6).

    "To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and conscience are defiled" (Ti. 1:15).

    "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting, and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these things proceed from within and defile the man" (Mk. 7:21-23).

    "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3).

    "Who can say, 'I have cleansed my heart, I am pure from sin' " (Prov. 20:9).

    "There the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was very great on the earth, and that every intent of the thought of his heart was evil continually (Gen. 6:5).

    "There is none righteousness, not even one; There is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God; All have turn aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, there is not even one" (Rom. 3.10-12).

    "And He was saying, 'For this reason I have said to you, that no can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father" (Jn. 6:65).

    "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" (Rom. 6:23).

    "The hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives . . . (Ecc. 9:3).

    "Can the Ethiopian change the his skin? Or the leopard his spots? Then you also cannot do good who are accustomed to do evil (Jer. 13:23).

    "Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! (Job 14:4).
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  7. #47
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    Originally posted by universe
    Does the bible actually say that people are all evil? Where?
    Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

    Who are the wicked? US... unregenerated man, is wicked.

    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies

    Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    Isaiah 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

    Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    This is us, before being born again by the Holy Spirit.
    This is us, in our "first nature".

    So yes, the Bible does say, all people are evil, in their natural state.
    "SOLA SCRIPTURA… GRATIA… FIDE… CHRISTUS… DEO GLORIA" Scripture alone, being our final authority, teaches us that salvation is by grace His grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for the glory of God alone.

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