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Thread: hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

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    hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

    4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, that they knew not, they and their fathers and the kings of Judah; and have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal; which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jer 19


    How do we reconcile absolute ordination of all things with this verse? And Brandan, I have already read Gills stance...hahahahaha


    Joe



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    Re: hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, that they knew not, they and their fathers and the kings of Judah; and have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 5 and have built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal; which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jer 19


    How do we reconcile absolute ordination of all things with this verse? And Brandan, I have already read Gills stance...hahahahaha


    Joe
    Joe ... Can you show me any verse in which God commanded or spake or it came to his mind that people should do the evil that is being listed here? Maybe I am misunderstanding your question and/or point here.

    Should I read Gill on this passage? hehehehe ... I really don't see the connection you are making but perhaps if I read Gill I will.

    Anyways out for another Glorious Day the Lord has made ... TAKE CARE ... Jan
    It is what it is

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    Re: hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

    Joe,

    How do we reconcile absolute ordination of all things with this verse? And Brandan, I have already read Gills stance...hahahahaha
    Perhaps you can't. When dealing with the mind of God, we often must bow to depths of mystery. That God works all things after the counsel of his will is a certainty of Scripture. (Ephes. 1:11)

    It is true, however, that, in order to baby talk us creatures, God presents his mind in terms that are communicable to us. This is called anthropomorphization. We see where God presents himself as "repenting" of an act of judgment and we see where he very clearly states that he never repents of anything. We have to subordinate the passages where he presents an anthropomorhization of himself to those passages where he makes a clear declaration of himself. God is probably speaking of himself as we would of our own intentions in your cited passage, declaring that Israel has forsaken him (when he commanded them to love him), and have estranged the Temple (when it should have been the orientation of their prayers), and have burned incense in it to other godsWhen he alone is to be the object of their worship), and filled it with the blood of innocents (when it is to be filled with the substitutionary blood of victims for their own guilt), and built the high places of Baal (when they were to be wed to God alone through his Temple), to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal (when their sons are to be consecrated to God alone through circumcision)... things which are not prescribed in the Levitical law, the ordinances, things which God would never have ordered to be done under any circumstances. The emphasis in this passage is clearly over the misuse of the Temple and the breaking of the covenant on the part of the Israelites. It is not meant to be used as a theological prooftext on the nature, character and attributes of God, but as a legal indictment of clear breach of contract on the part of the offenders... that the acts they have committed are totally the opposite from those prescribed within the provisions of the Covenant.
    J T P

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    Re: hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JoToP
    Joe,


    Perhaps you can't. When dealing with the mind of God, we often must bow to depths of mystery. That God works all things after the counsel of his will is a certainty of Scripture. (Ephes. 1:11)

    EXCELLENT POINT

    It is true, however, that, in order to baby talk us creatures, God presents his mind in terms that are communicable to us. This is called anthropomorphization. We see where God presents himself as "repenting" of an act of judgment and we see where he very clearly states that he never repents of anything. We have to subordinate the passages where he presents an anthropomorhization of himself to those passages where he makes a clear declaration of himself. God is probably speaking of himself as we would of our own intentions in your cited passage, declaring that Israel has forsaken him (when he commanded them to love him), and have estranged the Temple (when it should have been the orientation of their prayers), and have burned incense in it to other godsWhen he alone is to be the object of their worship), and filled it with the blood of innocents (when it is to be filled with the substitutionary blood of victims for their own guilt), and built the high places of Baal (when they were to be wed to God alone through his Temple), to burn their sons in the fire for burnt-offerings unto Baal (when their sons are to be consecrated to God alone through circumcision)... things which are not prescribed in the Levitical law, the ordinances, things which God would never have ordered to be done under any circumstances. The emphasis in this passage is clearly over the misuse of the Temple and the breaking of the covenant on the part of the Israelites. It is not meant to be used as a theological prooftext on the nature, character and attributes of God, but as a legal indictment of clear breach of contract on the part of the offenders... that the acts they have committed are totally the opposite from those prescribed within the provisions of the Covenant.

    I agree Jo. I am not trying to proof text anything. THe scripture stands alone in regards to God saying, "Neither entered my mind" I read it one a few years ago, and it was brought back to my eyes recently. I agree with what youre saying also. I am attempting to distinguish between the ordination of all things, Gods omniscience, all knowing, and the phrase of not coming into His mind. Thanks for your points though, they are much appreciated


    Joe

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    Re: hard scrpture for me... HELP PLEASE!!!!!!

    Joe,

    I agree Jo. I am not trying to proof text anything.
    I was speaking generally, not referring to your honest inquiry into the text. I should have made that clear.
    THe scripture stands alone in regards to God saying, "Neither entered my mind" I read it one a few years ago, and it was brought back to my eyes recently. I agree with what youre saying also. I am attempting to distinguish between the ordination of all things, Gods omniscience, all knowing, and the phrase of not coming into His mind. Thanks for your points though, they are much appreciated
    You're welcome. I hope it helps.
    J T P

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