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Thread: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador
    Sorry, I pushed the wrong button... I pushed "edit" rather than "quote"... So please, do not find it strange that it seems as if I edited Bob's note...

    Bob is exactly right! I wonder if this guy, other than to mock and scoff, can sometime crack a good laugh in plain fun or wholesome pleasure...

    Milt
    I think that if he took "Darth" seriously that he best not underestimate the power of the "force"

    greetings and salutations el rana

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    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Here is my currently in progress composition to Phil Johnson... I should be finished with it sometime this week. I decided not to make it too long in hopes that he will respond and that some serious dialogue might occur.

    -- Brandan

    http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=404
    This is my signature.

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Here is my currently in progress composition to Phil Johnson... I should be finished with it sometime this week. I decided not to make it too long in hopes that he will respond and that some serious dialogue might occur.

    -- Brandan

    http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=404
    Good my brother! Keep at it!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    I made this a private document. If you would like to read it, the username and password private / private.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    I made this a private document. If you would like to read it, the username and password private / private.
    Thanks!

    I did read it already!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Well, I have read the reply and congratulate you Brandan in your courageous endeavor to establish dialog! I have often given the reasons why I do not wear the 'hyper-Calvinist' label myself; wanting to disassociate myself from the bold heresies of 'conditional time' people who also wear the 'hardshell' label proudly (for VERY different reasons)--though I passionately wear the 'supralapsarian' label (equally condemned by Phil) proclaiming in a formal manner that God's work of grace is infinitely greater than all our sin!

    If Phil were truly honest, he would come here and dialog with us--because we are uniquely distinct from any other internet community in this respect: we will bow to arguments of scripture that are genuinely presented according to recognized standards of gospel hermeneutics! 'Radicals' (boy, aren't we?) anywhere else will never do that--we KNOW it is true.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Here is my currently in progress composition to Phil Johnson... I should be finished with it sometime this week. I decided not to make it too long in hopes that he will respond and that some serious dialogue might occur.

    -- Brandan

    http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=404
    Darth! That is quite a lid you got there From what I read you have faithfully presented a sound argument. Christ is forefront and center. By the way , do we know what confession Johnson is bound by?

    greetings and salutations, el rana

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ray kikkert
    Darth! That is quite a lid you got there From what I read you have faithfully presented a sound argument. Christ is forefront and center. By the way , do we know what confession Johnson is bound by?

    greetings and salutations, el rana
    I clicked on the Grace Community Church link on Phil's webpage and then found where their doctrinal statement can be found:

    http://gracechurch.org/home/doclib.a...=1&dlyear=2004

    It is a 19 page .pdf document at the bottom of the "document downloads" I didn't read it and just sorta skimmed over it. Perhaps you would like to look it over Ray. I am not sure if it was put together by John MacArthur or exactly who wrote it. Although it appears to me that John MacArthur is the author. That is pure speculation on my part.

    I think it is pretty standard for most evangelical churches to not have a standard confession or a church government per say. Again I could be in error and don't mind being corrected if I am wrong.

    Well ... outta here for now ... Jan
    It is what it is

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Brandan,

    Excellent reply in my humble opinion. It will at least be interesting to see if Mr Johnson chooses to engage you. If not you can at least defend yourself by posting the response where a person could find it easily.
    It is what it is

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Friends, I just uploaded my "officially near final" rough draft to the website. I would appreciate it if some here would consider prooftexting it and pointing out grammatical errors or any errors in general. Have I left anything out? Am I too harsh toward Phil? Thanks...

    http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=404

    I hope to be able to e-mail him the letter tomorrow or this weekend.

    Brandan
    This is my signature.

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by doctr of grace
    I clicked on the Grace Community Church link on Phil's webpage and then found where their doctrinal statement can be found:

    http://gracechurch.org/home/doclib.a...=1&dlyear=2004

    It is a 19 page .pdf document at the bottom of the "document downloads" I didn't read it and just sorta skimmed over it. Perhaps you would like to look it over Ray. I am not sure if it was put together by John MacArthur or exactly who wrote it. Although it appears to me that John MacArthur is the author. That is pure speculation on my part.

    I think it is pretty standard for most evangelical churches to not have a standard confession or a church government per say. Again I could be in error and don't mind being corrected if I am wrong.

    Well ... outta here for now ... Jan
    Jan , thanks for the link , they call it a doctrinal statement. I tried to download it , but alas I do not have an Adobe Reader, so I could not look at it.

    greetings and salutations, el rana

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ray kikkert
    Jan , thanks for the link , they call it a doctrinal statement. I tried to download it , but alas I do not have an Adobe Reader, so I could not look at it.

    greetings and salutations, el rana
    Ray,

    Click here to download it, its free.

    Martin

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeuos Eleos
    Ray,

    Click here to download it, its free.

    Martin
    I am of dutch descent and it is free... Hmmmmmmmm . Alright, thanks Martin




    greetings and salutations, el rana

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ray kikkert
    I am of dutch descent and it is free... Hmmmmmmmm . Alright, thanks Martin




    greetings and salutations, el rana
    Since I have a 56k modem it will take over 9 hours to download. This is not right. Maybe Martin I will take a look at Darth's polemic , thanks , but that download is too long for me.

    greetings and salutations, el rana

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Brandan:

    I am proud of you! Your response was classy and Christ-like! You demonstrated kindness and patience without relinquishing in firmness! Congratulations.

    There is nothing to correct in my view. Make this to be as close to your heart as possible, and, by the sampling, it is already an expression of your heart.

    Your brother in Christ,

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ray kikkert
    Since I have a 56k modem it will take over 9 hours to download. This is not right. Maybe Martin I will take a look at Darth's polemic , thanks , but that download is too long for me.

    greetings and salutations, el rana
    Dig around for some of the old setup disks of various software programs you might have laying around. You'll be able to find an older version of Reader one of them. (version 4 or so).


    Peace,

    Scott

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    I think it 'deserves' to be sent, Brandan. It is well-written and adequately deals with all the major points at stake in the debate. I, for one, see no point in debating those few issues any of us might have to 'fine-tune' it--when the time is right, it's right. Go for it!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Ok, I have e-mailed Phil. We'll see if he responds.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    Phil responded... I'll respond back

    Dear Brandan,

    Many thanks for your message. You wrote:

    > I have finished my response to your article, A Primer on
    > Hyper-Calvinism. I have placed it online at
    >
    http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=404.
    >
    > I would appreciate a response.


    Here's my basic response: You make precisely the same error as the
    Arminians when you begin with the assumption that responsibility
    is limited by ability.

    The fact that faith is a duty does NOT imply the power to believe.
    I don't know whether you've ever noticed it or not, but you also
    have a duty to be holy as God is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16)--while
    loving Him perpetually with all your heart, soul, mind, and
    strength (Deuteronomy 6:5, etc.). In short, it is your duty to be
    perfect (Matthew 5:48). The fact that you CANNOT obey those
    commands does not diminish your _duty_ to do so.

    Contrary to Arminians and hyper-Calvinists like yourself, historic
    Calvinism holds that man's duty is defined and delimited by God's
    commands, not by man's moral inability. See Arthur Pink's fine
    article on this issue:

    http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/dutyfth.htm

    On the love of God, common grace, and other issues, please read
    the last paragraph of my article again. Since you failed even to
    acknowledge that I have made a clear distinction "between God's
    _redemptive love_, which is reserved for the elect alone, and His
    _love of compassion_," your criticisms are all wide of the mark.
    You've made a lot of totally unwarranted assumptions about my
    views on things such as John 3:16 (which is not even cited in my
    article), my approach to evangelism, etc. I'm not really obliged
    to "defend" views you have imputed to me which I don't really even
    hold.

    I do have some recommended reading for you: Curt Daniel's syllabus
    _The History and Theology of Calvinism_ would be a good place for
    you to start. Then read Daniel's 900-page history of hyper-
    Calvinism and John Gill. (You also ought to look into The Marrow
    Controversy--a debate from the time of Thomas Boston that dealt
    with these precise issues.) If you want to set yourself up as a
    defender of Gill and hyper-Calvinism, you're going to need a
    better grasp of the history of this debate.

    -- Phillip R. Johnson
    The Spurgeon Archive
    http://www.spurgeon.org
    This is my signature.

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    Re: 5solas.org and PristineGrace.org make Phil Johnson's bad theology page!!! Woo Hoo!!!

    P. J. pours scorn on good christian men like William Huntington, and yet Idolizes men like Spurgeon, P.J. point of reference when challenged should be scripture, but oh NO it's you have to read 900 PAGES OF Daniels, if that does not shut you up,P.J.will tell you the issue has been decided by his Dead men, who have their decent traced back to THE APOSTLES. By the way Curt Daniels believes in the teaching of common grace knowing this I would find it hard to read 9 pages of Him. Ivor Thomas...
    For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain , Phillippians 1 v21.

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