Pristine Grace
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Anyone heard of this?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    165
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Anyone heard of this?

    Has anyone heard of this book or study?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    It's something that is starting at my church, and has me a little worried. I am hypersensitive already at any "new" program, so I don't know if I am reacting to nothing.

    Just thought I would ask if any of you know of this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,064
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    I don't know too much about Greg Ogden, but it seems that he places too much emphasis on ecclesiastical methodology, as if its the key to growth and maturity. I would have to read through his books but I would rather not waste my time. 1.) He is a Fuller graduate and 2.) Any work that claims growth and maturity can happen outside of solid biblical study is not worth the paper it's written on.

    Greg also has a book called: The New Reformation, from the Intro it seems he thinks that if we can change the way we 'do chuch' then true reformation can happen.

    Here is a quote: "We live in a moment of history when the ministry is potentially being returned to the people of God. (what the heck does that mean?) To harvest the fruit that the Holy Spirit is producing, we must recapture a biblical vision of the fundamental nature of the church.

    A word to the wise; I wouldn't waste my time with this guy.


  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    wingham,ontario
    Posts
    1,046
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashamoun
    Has anyone heard of this book or study?

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    It's something that is starting at my church, and has me a little worried. I am hypersensitive already at any "new" program, so I don't know if I am reacting to nothing.

    Just thought I would ask if any of you know of this.
    About the author

    Ogden (D.Min., Fuller Theological Seminary) is executive pastor of discipleship at Christ Church of Oak Brook in Oak Brook, Illinois. Previously he was academic director of the doctor of ministry program and associate professor of lay equipping and discipleship at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. A pastor for 23 years with the Presbyterian Church, USA, he also served for nine years as senior pastor of Saratoga Federated Church in Saratoga, California. While there, he developed a discipleship program used by over 15,000 people and resulting in his book, Discipleship Essentials. Ogden has also written The New Reformation: Returning the Ministry to the People of God (Zondervan, rereleased in 2003 as Unfinished Business).

    http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Ogd...taff/ogden.htm



    Reviews & Endorsements
    "People are built to last. So why is the church still keeping score of its institutional successes rather than tracking the development of disciples? Greg Ogden's insightful suggestions can help a church redesign its scorecard to celebrate transformed lives."
    Reggie McNeal, Director of Leadership Development, South Carolina Baptist Convention

    "Greg Ogden shook up the world of many of us when he wrote the The New Reformation. Now he brings a similar urgency and clarity to the issue of following Christ. Read it at your own risk."
    John Ortberg, Teaching Pastor, Willow Creek Community Church

    "While Transforming Discipleship is packed full with good, useful, biblical insights, the two unique features that especially connect with discipleship in a postmodern world are the concepts of triad discipleship and the shift from the hierarchical and authoritative models that dominated discipleship in modernity to 'discipling as a mutual process of peer mentoring.' This work is more biblical and more compelling than anything I have seen to date."
    Robert Webber, Myers Professor of Ministry, Northern Baptist Theological Seminary

    "Greg Ogden draws on his extensive pastoral experience as well as his interaction with many pastors in the Fuller D.Min. classes to provide an extensive range of biblical principles and practical ministry insights. He establishes the foundations for a reproducible model of discipleship. The issue is urgent and widespread in the churches of North America. This is the kind of book to help make a significant difference."
    Dr. Eddie Gibbs, Donald A. McGavran Professor of Church Growth, Fuller Theological Seminary

    "I always love Greg's work! He consistently calls us back to the core practice of the church--making disciples. And here he gives us a proven process that is intensely relational, thoroughly biblical and readily accessible to serious disciplemakers."
    Dr. Bill Donahue, Executive Director, Small Group Ministries, Willow Creek Association

    "After reading Greg Ogden's new book, Transforming Discipleship, the reader is likely to exclaim, 'I can do that!' Greg has cut through the cultural and ministerial fog surrounding this subject and written a persuasive handbook on the priority and process of this essential element. The author's convictions are compelling because he writes out of his own authentic experiencing of the truth whereof he writes. Readers will also recognize this book as eminently practical with helpful explanations of 'whys' and facilitating steps for 'hows.' Finally, through biblical and cultural documentation, Greg has convincingly urged the absolute priority of this focus on transformation in the making of a people who will carry the mission and the message to the next generation. And you can join him in doing that!"
    Dr. Julie Gorman, Professor of Christian Formation and Discipleship, Fuller Seminary, Pasadena, California

    "I loved this book. Greg has done it again! Based on a solid, unarguable biblical platform, Greg has lifted up the model of multiplication and reproduction for disciples and leaders, which Jesus and Paul embodied in the Scriptures. "Greg's credentials as a local church pastor give both the credibility and the courage to speak a bold hard truth with a soft clarity: that leaders (by their behavior) have lost sight of the call of the church to go and make disciples. More important, he creates a road map for the process. Transforming Discipleship is a transferable training model, based on Jesus' and Paul's unique and similar adaptive styles of leadership and empowerment, that is so simple it is brilliant. "The New Reformation was the biblical mandate to return the ministry to the people of God. Transforming Discipleship is the biblical mandate to grow and empower the people of God coupled with the model to accomplish the task. "Greg has a unique ability to translate the Scriptures so that the reader can see their relevance in today's world and apply them to grow God's people. Transforming Discipleship is a call to action for all church leaders seeking to honor and embody the Great Commission."
    Sue Mallory, author of The Equipping Church: Serving Together to Transform Lives

    "Greg Ogden presents a model for discipleship that really works. We have also discovered the life-changing dynamic found in groups of three. I enthusiastically recommend that you prayerfully apply the principles shared from the crucible of experience. Transformation awaits!"
    Dr. Bob Logan, CoachNet International Ministries

    "Greg Ogden's first book, The New Reformation, has had a profound influence on my work. And in Transforming Discipleship, Ogden describes the next stage in American Christianity, the change of emphasis from proclamation to demonstration, with great force and clarity. This is a truly important book."
    Bob Buford, Founder and Chairman, Leadership Network, and author of Halftime: Changing Your Game Plan from Success to Significance

    "Greg Ogden supplied us a comprehensive, biblical curriculum in Discipleship Essentials. In his most recent book, Transforming Discipleship, he reveals the foundation and vision. Based on a creative and stimulating triad model, Greg provides a vehicle that will guide the training of leaders who in turn will equip the church and individuals for a life of transformational discipleship. In a refreshingly biblical and realistic manner, Greg sculpts an essential model that goes beyond programs to the intentional development of relationships that are empowered by the Spirit to grow together to become like Jesus."
    Michael J. Wilkins, Dean of the Faculty and Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Talbot School of Theology, Biola University; author of Following the Master: A Biblical Theology of Discipleship

    "Greg Ogden has a heart for making disciples. He lives it. He speaks it. He writes it. This book is the mind of Greg's heart and, I believe, is a reflection of Jesus' heart and mind. Jesus wants his church to make disciples in a post-Christian world. This book puts the ministry leader and visionary in touch with today's stark reality-- it's time for the whole church to get serious about making disciples Jesus' way. This book will help change our church to be in alignment with Jesus' vision and ministry practice. "
    Gareth Icenogle, Senior Pastor, First Presbyterian Church, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; author of The Biblical Foundations of Small Group Ministry

    "Why are Christians not more like Christ? With all the evangelism, church growth and discipleship programs both critics and lovers of the church around the world ask, where are the transformed lives? Greg Ogden does not claim all the answers. He does point out one important truth: transformation happens not through programs but through highly accountable, mutually encouraging, Spirit-formed relationships. All those concerned about a 'disciple deficit' will find this not only a must-read but a 'must-practice' book!"
    Leighton Ford, President, Leighton Ford Ministries
    Greetings and salutations, el rana

    21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Proverbs chapter 19

  4. #4
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    141
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    81
    Thanked in
    54 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    GAG GAG GAG GAG GAG!!! Today is a major puke fest!!!

    I'm weary of any program or methodology. If you see fuller seminary endorse it, it's another sign it's bad! Run away and run hard!
    This is my signature.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    wingham,ontario
    Posts
    1,046
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    GAG GAG GAG GAG GAG!!! Today is a major puke fest!!!

    I'm weary of any program or methodology. If you see fuller seminary endorse it, it's another sign it's bad! Run away and run hard!
    "After reading Greg Ogden's new book, Transforming Discipleship, the reader is likely to exclaim, 'I can do that!' Greg has cut through the cultural and ministerial fog surrounding this subject and written a persuasive handbook on the priority and process of this essential element. The author's convictions are compelling because he writes out of his own authentic experiencing of the truth whereof he writes. Readers will also recognize this book as eminently practical with helpful explanations of 'whys' and facilitating steps for 'hows.' Finally, through biblical and cultural documentation, Greg has convincingly urged the absolute priority of this focus on transformation in the making of a people who will carry the mission and the message to the next generation. And you can join him in doing that!"
    Dr. Julie Gorman, Professor of Christian Formation and Discipleship, Fuller Seminary, Pasadena, California


    Prof. Julie thinks it's a hit She may need a group hug after seeing your response regarding Fuller
    Greetings and salutations, el rana

    21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Proverbs chapter 19

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,064
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    After each endorsment I like to throw in a hardy: CHA CHING $$

    It helps me understand better where the endorser is coming from.


  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    461
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    lol Brandan...

    do you need a bucket? a tissue perhaps?

    Stop harfing all over the forum, the rest of us have to work here too, ya know.



    "SOLA SCRIPTURA… GRATIA… FIDE… CHRISTUS… DEO GLORIA" Scripture alone, being our final authority, teaches us that salvation is by grace His grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for the glory of God alone.

  8. #8
    Moderator ugly_gaunt_cow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,030
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    5 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Maybe I'm just different, but I thought Spiritual Maturity was wrought in an individual by the Holy Spirit?

    And...

    How could I possibly "make" someone a disciple? Isn't that up to God as well?

    In Part 1, I read something to the effect of "giving the Spirit permission to work in me"...

    Hmmm...

    I dunno, that sounds too "unbiblical" formy liking.

    Wait, I have an idea!! Instead of reading that book, how about well tell people to read their bibles and perhaps pray?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Bromley, KY
    Posts
    248
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
    Here is a quote: "We live in a moment of history when the ministry is potentially being returned to the people of God. (what the heck does that mean?)
    Doc,

    I wouldn't recommend this guy but I would say that the book you are quoting from does have a few good comments on the nature of the church and especially the part that you quoted. What he is saying is that ministry is not the sole function of the pastor or other leaders but is the responsibility of all God's people. Too much clergy/laity distinctions have gone on in traditional church settings without ever being questioned. The pastor does the work of ministry while the congregation passively sits and listens. Every believer is responsible for ministry and the whole church does the work of the ministry not just the so-called "clergy".

    When he says that ministry is "potentially being returned" I think he has in mind the various movements of cell churches and house churches.

    Just my 2 cents!
    Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,064
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    Good point TC. Is this quote a prophesey? If not then how is the age we live in any different than the ages in the past? When has true ministry not been in the hands of the people of God? I see a lot of cults out there and religious institutions out there and I would in no way say they have control. The cell church is just another name for what has always existed. The great apostacy happened very early in church history and ever since the people of God have gathered in small groups.

    My main point was that Reformation at it's root will not be as a result of a massive change in the way we do church. Reformation will happen if God has decreed it to happen. The preaching of the True Gosple of Grace doesn't even guarantee a Reformation. For all we know we are heading straight down the road to persecution in the west similar to that of the early church.


  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    25
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Anyone heard of this?

    I agree with the Fuller seminary endorsement; makes your skin itch.

Similar Threads

  1. Christ's Humanity, Christ's Diety
    By Dans la Musique in forum General Discussion Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-23-06, 08:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •