Pristine Grace
Page 1 of 2 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31

Thread: Acts 15:5-6

  1. #1
    Moderator Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    756
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Acts 15:5-6

    Acts 15:5-6

    “But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses, And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter”

    In sermon on Sunday (it was a very edifying sermon), mention was made of this scripture as proof text for the government of the church. Gathering the churches (elders) together (such as classis, synod) to come to such decisions as these…..mention being made that even though we are all priests we are not to decide for ourselves what scripture teaches.

    In the midst of this very large teaching on ‘circumcision’ I don’t think that this teaches a government role model for the church, however that is what I believe! It was an important decision to be made by the Apostle’s with the inclusion of the Gentile believers and remains the same teaching to us. So there also, haven’t I decided for myself what the scripture teaches? How do I reconcile these things in my own mind? Trust the Spirit to lead and guide me into all truth, a Holy Spirit conviction that no amount of teaching can change? I struggle with that at times as I have been warned about silly women being led into heresy! And yet I know I cannot change my convictions! It seems a dilemma at times and yet I know nothing is a true dilemma to a believer.

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

  2. #2
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    70
    Thanked in
    45 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen
    …..mention being made that even though we are all priests we are not to decide for ourselves what scripture teaches.
    That's right! The Apostle Paul has already revealed to us what the Scripture teaches I think it would be wise to stand in agreement with him.

    1 Jn 2:27, (KJV), But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: [Why? Because, oh, these things were already settled maybe and were revealed by the Holy Spirit? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm] but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    See this article on church government: http://www.ntrf.org/ekklesia.html
    This is my signature.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Acts 15:5-6 is often appealed to as an example of the first synod, but I believe that this is false as did Herman Hoeksema of all people. In this example we do not find a situation in which elders were sent as delegates from all the churches and then voted on decisions which were binding upon the church. We have the Apostles coming and meeting with the elders at the church in Jerusalem and then the Apostles basically determine what needs to be done having received their authority directly from God. The idea of synod is based upon certain reformed principles but not commanded in Scripture. Synod does not belong to the essential nature of the church. The churches were not completely independent from one another either as is seen in this example. They looked for advice from others and we read from other passages that churches collected money for other churches and so forth. Presbyterian church government is found in the Scriptures in sort of a skeletal form but every detail is not spelled out. I think more study needs to be done on what the term elder meant to the early Christians since this was a role which was also found in the Old Testament. There are some differences in approach between the Presbyterian and Reformed churches in the area of church government although they are both considered to be Presbyterian and I think they have both made some significant errors in the guidelines they have made.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    That's right! The Apostle Paul has already revealed to us what the Scripture teaches I think it would be wise to stand in agreement with him.
    Brandan:

    I have a question regarding what is said in here by a few regarding "pauls Gospel" Was it different than Christs? I have been wanting to ask this for some time, but always forget. I see you, Bob, harold, constatly speak of Pauls Gosepl and my first inkiling is it is different than what Christ Himself taught. I know, or actually hope this is not intended. The appearance concludes some sort of "pauline Dispensationalism"

    Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Paul said that the church is built upon the “apostles” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20).

    I personally see no difference in what Peter, and the rest taught in regards to Christs Gospel. Peter preached salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2)the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4).


    This scripture Eileen is asking about has ALL the Apostles agreeing on the Gospel. And Paul himself condemns any who teach a different Gospel in Gal 1. If I am off base please explain to me the difference of what you few say from what some hyper dispy claims.


    Thanx

    Joe

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    383
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    We have the mind of Christ,
    notice not mind's [plural],. When God speaks about giving us a new heart and mind[singular], this speaks against the free will lie of independent hearts and minds [plural], coming together to establish truth.
    There is only one Mind the Apostles had not got independent mind's, meeting together they where one Mind [singular].
    We who have the Mind of Christ, if we are together or on our own, we have one Mind, taught and given by God we know the Truth. Ivor Thomas
    For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain , Phillippians 1 v21.

  6. #6
    Moderator Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    756
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Thanks all!

    1 Jn 2:27, (KJV), But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: [Why? Because, oh, these things were already settled maybe and were revealed by the Holy Spirit? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm] but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    This is a great passage that I need to think on and come to a better understanding of, as I see that John is addressing us......little children that we are. I do know that I'm truly not a 'silly woman', what I am finding is that as I continue to grow in Grace and in Knowledge I am laying aside the weight that besets me, as Hebrews 12 so puts it and thankfully so! What a race it is.

    I wonder if the established churches will continue to study these issues, such as WB suggested with the role of elders or do they think that where we are is the furthest we go.

    I know that Bob refers to the REAL Gospel issues of our time and I wonder what is and what isn't included in those issues.

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Holland, Michigan
    Posts
    1,835
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    Brandan:

    I have a question regarding what is said in here by a few regarding "pauls Gospel" Was it different than Christs? I have been wanting to ask this for some time, but always forget. I see you, Bob, harold, constatly speak of Pauls Gosepl and my first inkiling is it is different than what Christ Himself taught. I know, or actually hope this is not intended. The appearance concludes some sort of "pauline Dispensationalism"

    Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Paul said that the church is built upon the “apostles” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20).

    I personally see no difference in what Peter, and the rest taught in regards to Christs Gospel. Peter preached salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2)the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4).


    This scripture Eileen is asking about has ALL the Apostles agreeing on the Gospel. And Paul himself condemns any who teach a different Gospel in Gal 1. If I am off base please explain to me the difference of what you few say from what some hyper dispy claims.


    Thanx

    Joe
    Joe:

    I too teach that Paul's Gospel is NOT DIFFERENT, but FINISHES and COMPLETES the other writer's. There is no contradiction; only the fact that God completed His planned revelation when he manifested it to Paul. That indeed, by God's design, turned the writings of Paul, referred by himself as "my Gospel", unique.

    I plan to post some scriptures tonight about this issue. However I think this is NOT THE THREAD for answering your questions. If you don't mind, I may post a new thread tonight or even write to you privately.
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

  8. #8
    Moderator Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    756
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Milt

    I plan to post some scriptures tonight about this issue. However I think this is NOT THE THREAD for answering your questions. If you don't mind, I may post a new thread tonight or even write to you privately.

    I would certainly appreciate a new thread and some discussion of what Joe is asking, so if you wouldn't mind doing it here?? I think it would be beneficial to all of us.

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador
    Joe:

    I too teach that Paul's Gospel is NOT DIFFERENT, but FINISHES and COMPLETES the other writer's. There is no contradiction; only the fact that God completed His planned revelation when he manifested it to Paul. That indeed, by God's design, turned the writings of Paul, referred by himself as "my Gospel", unique.

    I plan to post some scriptures tonight about this issue. However I think this is NOT THE THREAD for answering your questions. If you don't mind, I may post a new thread tonight or even write to you privately.
    Whatever you decide to do Milt, will be greatly appreciated. I hope you understand my concern and intention. And how this does resemble the stance of a hyper dispy, pauline dispy stance. Perhaps we can look at both situations, and then compare. Are you aware of what is known as a Pauline Dispensation? I am not being wise, but many have no clue what it is. It is also called ACTS 9 dispensation, middle Acts etc etc.

    Milt, it is always a pleasure.

    Joe

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador
    Joe:

    I too teach that Paul's Gospel is NOT DIFFERENT, but FINISHES and COMPLETES the other writer's.

    Milt: Perhaps YOU do, but I have seen some speak as if it is different without calling it that. So please do not take this as an afront, I am just concerned that it is not explained as clear as it could be

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen

    I know that Bob refers to the REAL Gospel issues of our time and I wonder what is and what isn't included in those issues.

    Eileen~
    Eileen, this will ALWAYS depend upon what someone defines as the Gospel. I am sure this has been discussed 1000 times here. We each have our own opinion of what this consists of.

    I like these articles
    http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=95

    The Gospel that Christ was anointed to preach was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. There is nothing else that he or the Apostles spoke of more in regards to what the Gospel is.

    Matt 4:23And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, ---"

    Acts 20:25 "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, "

    Mark 10:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God."

    Acts 28:23: " So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening."

    Luke 8:1: "Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him,".

    Matt. 9:35: " Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people."

    You you just have to determine what is "The Kingdom of God" hahahahahaa


    Joe





  12. #12
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    70
    Thanked in
    45 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Paul's Gospel is no different than the other Apostles' Gospel. It was no different than Christ's Gospel. However, it is clearer in its presentation of election and experiential justification by faith than any other apostle. We interpret the rest of Scripture through the lense of Paul. That is what I mean by "Paul's Gospel".

    See this post: http://www.5solas.org/forums/showthr...9533#post19533 by Bob Higby (BillTwisse)
    out of curiosity, why is it that you appear to be pitting paul against the rest of the apostles? and why do you feel that they were not a unified group as to their teachings? did they not all teach the same gospel from the same source? were they not all heralds of Jesus? why does paul seem to be the apex for you?

    AGAINST is a strong word! There are relative levels of UNIFIED teaching. The gospel comes to us first as the seed, then the blade, then the full-grown stalk, then the stalk with ears, then the full-corn in the ear. There is no contradiction or lack of unification in any of these progressive levels of revelation. But there is certainly a contrasting emergence of the pure and eternal gospel! Rhetorical paradoxes that we might encounter in scripture are to be resolved by interpreting the 'inferior' revelation in light of the 'full' and final revelation. Paul FULLY preached the Gospel in its full-corn brilliance. Men who propose and dogmatically assert that prior interpreters could say the same thing about their teaching--these persons need to be challenged.

    Edward J. Carnell ('The Case for Orthodox Theology') was condemned in the early 80's--by the crowd opposing a New Covenant theology of Christian ethics. This was because of his controversial assertion that the Pauline epistles must interpret the gospels. I propose that Carnell was correct! His simple yet powerful method of interpreting scripture is one of the major instruments of truth that led me out of the unbelievable darkness and heresy of the sect that I was once pastor of!

    Paul IS the apex--but the others taught the same gospel, albeit progressively. Gal. 1:9 is the key. Once Paul shared his superior revelation with Peter, John, and James; they signed-on to his message and were never the same afterwards. That is why conservative interpreters who defend James as worthy of canonical status propose this: it was written before Paul shared his superior revelations! Keep this in mind: Paul was the only human being in history to experience the ACTUAL presence of heaven itself and all the glory of God in his sovereignty over history (in contrast to a symbolic or visionary representation of it--like Isaiah). To keep Paul humbled after this absolutely unique and superior revelation, he was appointed a lot of suffering greater than that of all other persons in Christ!

    I am convinced that the apostle John became a dedicated and passionate defender of Paul's gospel after Paul was martyred. He might have had suspicions of Paul early-on. But later in life, after witnessing the stamp of the Holy Spirit on Paul's ministry and the truth of his claims to the ultimate revelation, he became the most passionate Paulinist in history! Not that he followed Paul; he defended Paul's full-corn gospel only because Paul followed Christ.
    This is my signature.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Paul's Gospel is no different than the other Apostles' Gospel. It was no different than Christ's Gospel. However, it is clearer in its presentation of election and experiential justification by faith than any other apostle. We interpret the rest of Scripture through the lense of Paul. That is what I mean by "Paul's Gospel".

    See this post: http://www.5solas.org/forums/showthr...9533#post19533 by Bob Higby (BillTwisse)
    Thanx Brandan. I agree with everything you wrote except I have never considered the last part of interpreting through the lenses of Paul. Or this "full corn" stuff Bob speaks about. Am I out of school here, or does this not resemble some "Pauline Dispensationalism" I actually see Paul speaking humbkly abo his teachings and never elevating himself.


    Thanx

    Joe

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Holland, Michigan
    Posts
    1,835
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    Milt: Perhaps YOU do, but I have seen some speak as if it is different without calling it that. So please do not take this as an afront, I am just concerned that it is not explained as clear as it could be
    Joe:

    I just came back from the doctor after a real strange accident I had and I am not in my best condition, but consider this and then you judge for yourself whether Paul's Gospel is different or not (It is different in approach and the fact that it is COMPLETE whereas from Matthew to Acts we still have the baby Ek-klesia discussing "Jewish" issues. I will try to do it in a self-didactic way, rather than a "leading" way:

    1. Read Acts 15, the Council of Jerusalem. Read the opinion of the other apostles and then read what Paul said in 1 Cor 8
    2. Read the Great Commission in its entirety, the version that includes the command to baptize.
    3. Read Peter in Acts 2:36-38.
    4. Then read what Paul says about Baptism and how "important" it was for him and how he exempted himself from the command (you can say "call") to baptize in 1 Cor 1:13-17.
    5. Read what Paul says about the description of his calling on Galatians 2:1-10.
    As you read, note the "crowd" to whom Peter and James addressed as opposed to Paul. Note that some Christian Jews maintained (and some later returned to) the beggarly elements of the law of Moses. Note what Jesus taught about "giving" in the Gospels (endorsing tithing) and see what Paul wrote about giving, NEVER mentioning tithing.

    Above all, please, note for yourself the tremendous difference in the teaching of Salvation from the Apostle Paul:

    In the Gospels:

    • To the rich young ruler, Jesus said: "Sell all you have and then follow me".
    • To Zaccheus: He had to say nothing!
    • In the parable of the Rich and Lazarus, nothing is taught about how the poor man was saved but the term "law and the prophets" indicate that the man was "saved" by fulfilling the law.
    • To Nicodemus he said: "you must be born again"
    • To the thief on the cross He simply said: "Today you will me with me in paradise.
    All of these are NOT DIFFERENCES NOR CONTRADICTIONS, but Jesus was preaching in a time that preceded God's timing "the fullness of time" spoken by Paul, when he received his revelation and NOW we can know how Salvation was planned and how it happened
    .
    but...

    Paul teaches Salvation when the REVELATION OF GOD, THE MYSTERY THAT WAS HIDDEN THROUGH THE AGES WAS GIVEN TO HIM and, according to Paul, in Romans 16:25 was "now being manifested", that:

    • We have been chosen before the foundation of the world
    • we have the witness of the Spirit as evidence of our Salvation
    • we have faith as evidence of our Salvation
    These things are unique of Paul's ministry and revelation.

    Now you can decide whether it was "different" in the sense of "another" or "different" in the sense of completion.

    I hope this helps and causes less controversy. I warn you: because of this teaching I have been labeled a dispensationalist. My answer is: if you believe on the fact that there is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant, the fact that you believe that we don't have to kill animals anymore for our Salvation, the fact that you believe that we no longer have to bring sacrifices to the high priest does not make you a dispensationalist, does it? Neither does the fact that I believe Paul's Gospel is the completion of the other Gospels.

    Otherwise, Paul should also be labeled a dispensationalist since he says:

    1 Cor 9:17 ...a dispensation of the Gospel has been given to me...
    Ephesians 1:10: That in the dispensation of the times he might gather together in one all things in Christ...

    The fact that I believe that the Gospel of Paul is the Gospel of the "fullness of times" does not mean that I am a dispensationalist.

    I hope this helps and does not cause too much controversy.

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador
    Joe:

    I just came back from the doctor after a real strange accident I had and I am not in my best condition, but consider this and then you judge for yourself whether Paul's Gospel is different or not (It is different in approach and the fact that it is COMPLETE whereas from Matthew to Acts we still have the baby Ek-klesia discussing "Jewish" issues. I will try to do it in a self-didactic way, rather than a "leading" way:
    1. Read Acts 15, the Council of Jerusalem. Read the opinion of the other apostles and then read what Paul said in 1 Cor 8
    2. Read the Great Commission in its entirety, the version that includes the command to baptize.
    3. Read Peter in Acts 2:36-38.
    4. Then read what Paul says about Baptism and how "important" it was for him and how he exempted himself from the command (you can say "call") to baptize in 1 Cor 1:13-17.
    5. Read what Paul says about the description of his calling on Galatians 2:1-10.
    As you read, note the "crowd" to whom Peter and James addressed as opposed to Paul. Note that some Christian Jews maintained (and some later returned to) the beggarly elements of the law of Moses. Note what Jesus taught about "giving" in the Gospels (endorsing tithing) and see what Paul wrote about giving, NEVER mentioning tithing.

    Above all, please, note for yourself the tremendous difference in the teaching of Salvation from the Apostle Paul:

    In the Gospels:
    • To the rich young ruler, Jesus said: "Sell all you have and then follow me".
    • To Zaccheus: He had to say nothing!
    • In the parable of the Rich and Lazarus, nothing is taught about how the poor man was saved but the term "law and the prophets" indicate that the man was "saved" by fulfilling the law.
    • To Nicodemus he said: "you must be born again"
    • To the thief on the cross He simply said: "Today you will me with me in paradise.
    All of these are NOT DIFFERENCES NOR CONTRADICTIONS, but Jesus was preaching in a time that preceded God's timing "the fullness of time" spoken by Paul, when he received his revelation and NOW we can know how Salvation was planned and how it happened
    .
    but...

    Paul teaches Salvation when the REVELATION OF GOD, THE MYSTERY THAT WAS HIDDEN THROUGH THE AGES WAS GIVEN TO HIM and, according to Paul, in Romans 16:25 was "now being manifested", that:
    • We have been chosen before the foundation of the world
    • we have the witness of the Spirit as evidence of our Salvation
    • we have faith as evidence of our Salvation
    These things are unique of Paul's ministry and revelation.

    Now you can decide whether it was "different" in the sense of "another" or "different" in the sense of completion.

    I hope this helps and causes less controversy. I warn you: because of this teaching I have been labeled a dispensationalist. My answer is: if you believe on the fact that there is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant, the fact that you believe that we don't have to kill animals anymore for our Salvation, the fact that you believe that we no longer have to bring sacrifices to the high priest does not make you a dispensationalist, does it? Neither does the fact that I believe Paul's Gospel is the completion of the other Gospels.

    Otherwise, Paul should also be labeled a dispensationalist since he says:

    1 Cor 9:17 ...a dispensation of the Gospel has been given to me...
    Ephesians 1:10: That in the dispensation of the times he might gather together in one all things in Christ...

    The fact that I believe that the Gospel of Paul is the Gospel of the "fullness of times" does not mean that I am a dispensationalist.

    I hope this helps and does not cause too much controversy.

    Milt
    Milt, you are far from controversial. LEt me chew on it a while and I will let you know.

    My premature observation is that I would be more comfortable using the word DISTINCT, rather than DIFFERENT. I am careful to state that Paul preached a different salvation though. According to the scriptures in Hebrews, (Heb. 2:3-4);
    How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
    As well as what I mentioned from Peter.

    DO you notice my concern? It could easily be concluded that some actually elevate Paul above the other apostles, when he himself never did, and actually elevate him above Christ, God incarnate Himself. I know this is never intended, but becomes the fruit of such opinion.

    I will agree the Audience is different, from even Christ Himself, who stated He was sent for the lost sheep of the House of Israel first, and that the "dogs' do not get fed first, but we can not say the dogs received nothing from Christ.

    Milt, again I thank you for taking the time to corespond on this matter that weighs heavily upon me at this time. I will paryerfully study the topic and speak with you soon.

    ps; If you were a dispy I would not be upset!!!!!!!! Their could be much worse!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Joe

  16. #16
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    70
    Thanked in
    45 Posts

    Thumbs up Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    ps; If you were a dispy I would not be upset!!!!!!!! Their could be much worse!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Dispensationalism is a perversion and heresy of the worst sort in my opinion.
    This is my signature.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Dispensationalism is a perversion and heresy of the worst sort in my opinion.
    You have a constant habit of gravitating towrds the least stressed part of peoples posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How long is your perversion, heresey list? You must have stock in MEAD Paper!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. #18
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    70
    Thanked in
    45 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    How long is your perversion, heresey list? You must have stock in MEAD Paper!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    To be quite honest with you, it is very long.
    This is my signature.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,849
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    To be quite honest with you, it is very long.
    Not enough room on the forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Anyway, My intent of that comment was a compliment to Milt. Not many are as gracious as he, so if he told me he was dispy, and I never knew that, I would not think much differently of him. lets nto digress.

    Hey Brandan, for kicks and giggles, give me some "ites" or "isms" of dispy's!!!!

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Holland, Michigan
    Posts
    1,835
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Acts 15:5-6

    ps; If you were a dispy I would not be upset!!!!!!!! Their could be much worse!!!!!!!!!!!!
    NO! I am not a "dispy". But I believe in a New and Old Covenant; I believe that there was a "Law" (or is for some Calvies) and there is now Grace.

    I believe as Paul, in the words he uses in Ephesians 2:

    ...times past...
    ...ages to come...
    ...but NOW...

    I don't set my life looking at the rearview mirror: "times past"-the law and fulfilled prophecy. That would be dangerous and would not allow me to see ahead.

    I don't set my sights too far ahead in the ages to come: Prophecy still to be fulfilled and some aspects of eschatology.. That would be dangerous and would not allow me to see and enjoy the things that are right before me, such as God's Grace. It would cause me to stumble...

    I DO set my eyes on the ...but NOW... which is GRACE, RATHER, HIGH GRACE, which is the time we are now enjoying in God's wonderful Grace!

    I also believe in Isaiah 61:1-2 in its entirety. I also believe in Jesus' quotation of Isaiah 61 in Luke 4:18 when Jesus left out "the day of the vengeance of the Lord" and that He did not "misquote" this verse, without the portion left out, but that He purposefully left out the ...times past... and the ...ages to come....

    My position is probably a "hybrid" one which does not require long exercises in Biblical interpretation; it is simple as I repute myself to be simple and does not match any of the labels or "theological fads" or "wind of doctrines" (to quote Paul) that we have going on today.

    I believe that Paul said about the ...ages to come...:

    "about the last things, eschatology, I would not have you ignorant... (my paraphrase).

    I believe that between not being ignorant and being an expert there is a vast difference. I don't seek to be an expert; I believe in just not being ignorant about eschatology.

    So, there it is. I am not a dispensationalist although some "sensationalist" Christians insist in sticking upon me this terrible label. I call this label placers "labelationists".

    Now you know it!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

Page 1 of 2 1 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. perdition
    By beloved57 in forum Predestinarian Doctrine Archive
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 03-24-06, 07:41 PM
  2. Be nice to someone. Buy them a subscription!
    By Brandan in forum News & Announcements Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-18-06, 06:53 PM
  3. A Poem I wrote for my Son...
    By Tulkas in forum General Discussion Archive
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-26-05, 05:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •