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Thread: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

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    A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Respond to Bob's latest blog entry.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by BillTwisse
    Respond to Bob's latest blog entry.
    There is no teaching of scripture more sure and certain than that of Christ’s final advent, which will end the present world and consummate all things. More than any other phenomenon, the Preterist movement has caused many Christians to doubtthe certainty and reality of cosmic redemption. But the whole premise of the Preterist system is faulty. It is based on a doubtful interpretation of he genea haute (this generation) in Mt. 24:34. If the interpretation is wrong, the whole system falls to the ground. Robert Morgentaler writes of the expression as used in the New Testament:
    Hi BT. For a lot of christians, such as myself, it has actually erased any "doubts" whatsoever of the whole Bible being inspired by God Himself. Sometimes I feel that book just literally "dropped out of heaven" from God Himself after being written by Him and the most wonderfull thing about that is, I can believe in it without any proof whatsoever any of those mentioned in the bible ever really walking the earth, that is how Divine and Inspired I look at it. .


    I never used the "this generation" to come to a preterist conclusion, and every generation has wickedness in it that the Elect Chosen Saints In Christ must Overcome, correct?

    In fact, I use mostly the OT to interpret revelation, not the NT, since it is Judah/Israel/Jerusalem that is shown in revelation symbolically. The pagan unbelieving "jews" would realize this if they believed in the NT, but they have their own "cultural religion" based on the OC Mosaic covenant and Pagan Talmud [and they have a nice shiny Gold Dome in their city instead of a Temple]. Christ did come to Israel first just as prophecied, not to the gentiles, but to this day, we provoke them to "jealousy" and they can get a little "upset" at times talking about our false "mangod" LOL, but then that is because of their deliberate false intepretaion of Scripture, especially Isaiah.

    I have been on many large forums [even jewish forums] and have seen doubts to whether Noah, Abraham, Isaac and yes even Jesus and Paul ever existed!!!![the unbelieving jews use the same arguements atheists use for denying Jesus btw or vice versa].

    I just didn't realize that there is such little "outside biblical evidence" that Jesus ever existed, it is any wonder anyone believes He existed at all, much less the People spoken of in the OT from genesis to Malachi.

    That is where FAITH in the Word comes in.

    As we can see in the religious world of christianity today there are multitudes/myriads of beliefs and "doctrines" based on that one book, revelation, and it boils down to is this, what does the new "heavens and earth" represent in the OT?

    I try not to get into many arguements on "eschatology/fulfillment", because it can lead others that may be "weak in the faith" to doubt much of the rest of the bible and become atheists themselves, especially with sites like this around:http://www.awitness.org/bible.html[this is a favorite for the atheists to use in arguements against the bible and is in fact, a very good site to learn how to refute those who believe the prohecies in the bible are "false".]


    I do pray to God for wisdom and knowledge of His words everyday before I read it and reading it as "fulfilled" makes it even more believable and inspired to me.
    Anyway, interesting post bro. Blessings.


    Isaiah 65:17 " For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem [as] a rejoicing, And her people a joy. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying.


    Isaiah 66:22 " For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass [That] from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. 24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

    Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Amen Bob.

    Something that will never cease to amaze me--not only in the dispensational camp but those that claim to be reformed and hold to some form of amillennialism--is the ignorance or total disregard to the present reality of the great apostasy which happened almost 2000 years ago. Most hold that the status of the world will get much much worse then it is right now before Christ returns, giving them this false impression that they cannot be one of those deceived as Paul mentions in 2 Thess 2. 'How can so many be wrong' they say, 'How could or why would God deceive so many?' They ignore that the elect have always been a small number compared to the total population of the earth. They forget that Israel was God's elect people during the Old Covenant leaving the rest of the world to destruction and even in the New Covenant God's people have always been a sparse number throughout the ages, suffering persecution and ignored because they were the minority. It is no different today with those who hold to a form of religion painted with gospel language reflect that of the RCC.

    On 'all saints day' the actions of men such as Luther, Huss, Wycliffe, Tyndale are exalted and their bravery in the midst of wicked oppressors is marveled at, but the very Truths that they stood for in reformation from the RCC are denied in the same breath. They dare not mention Calvin because he represents the horde of cold hearted predestinarians and the awful Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

    Perhaps if they new the clear teaching in scripture on the final advent of Christ they might realize they are indeed in the midst of the wicked and perverse generation mentioned in Mt. 24:34.


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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Amen, Mike, to all of your points!

    Something that will never cease to amaze me--not only in the dispensational camp but those that claim to be reformed and hold to some form of amillennialism--is the ignorance or total disregard to the present reality of the great apostasy which happened almost 2000 years ago. Most hold that the status of the world will get much much worse then it is right now before Christ returns, giving them this false impression that they cannot be one of those deceived as Paul mentions in 2 Thess 2. 'How can so many be wrong' they say, 'How could or why would God deceive so many?' They ignore that the elect have always been a small number compared to the total population of the earth.

    Yes! I changed my view of the antichrist a few years ago for this very reason. The 'man of sin' and the 'great apostasy' are the same thing. In Daniel (who first prophesied the coming antichrist) KING and KINGDOM are equivalent. So there is very likely not ONE PERSONAL ANTICHRIST! The coming of the lawless one prophesied by Paul is the same as the coming of the great apostasy after his death, in which the kingdom of pseudo-Christendom (the great whore) and its leaders would eventually rise to rule on the earth through the beast (Satan-inspired government) and persecute true believers.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    COuld Jesus have known the "generation" without knowing the day or the hour? Is there a difference?

    "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

    This does not claim that Christ did not know WHEN. IT just says He did not know the day or the hour, is there a difference?

    And in Revelation what did Jesus mean when He says "The time is near" and "Behold, I am coming quickly?"

    And he said to me, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is AT HAND. 11He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous[5] still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." 12 "And behold, I AM COMING QUICKLY, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.


    How am I suppose to read Christs staements about time? This is ALL new to me, so I take them at face value and literal.

    Revelation 22:12-15 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

    Did He come quickly?

    HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    All the things Jesus spoke of did begin to take place and Jesus continues to come quickly. The coming of the kingdom is seen in every new convert to Christianity.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

    Revelation 22:12-15 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie."

    Did He come quickly?

    HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Hi loj. The atheists and unbelieving jews ask christians the same question. How quickly was "quick"?

    Do you view 40yrs after Christ started preaching to the destrucion of first century Jerusalem as "short"? Wild Boar is actually correct, as Jesus has come, continues to come and will always continue to be coming. I don't really focus on a "physical from the sky" coming as a lot of christians do, as Jesus came to me in Spirit.
    WB:
    All the things Jesus spoke of did begin to take place and Jesus continues to come quickly. The coming of the kingdom is seen in every new convert to Christianity.
    Another question is, what is meant by a "new heaven and earth"? Without knowing that, how can we know what revelation is representing?

    The OT actually states God would glorify Himself through Israel and to Israel. They are the ones that missed Jesus coming the first time and will continue to miss Him through the ages of ages unless their eyes are opened by God, just as mine were when Jesus came into my life.

    How do you view this "time statement" of Paul in Romans 13? The same word "salvation" was used before Moses parted the red sea, for the salvation of the hebrews from their enemies, the egyptians. Are Paul's followers still awaiting on this?

    Romans 13:11 And, this besides,--knowing the season--that it is an hour already for you out of sleep to be wakened; for, now, is our salvation nearer than when we believed:

    reve 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

    Revelation 9:15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

    Rev 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    I.C.A. Jesus was not raised from the Tomb has a Spirit, see Luke 24;v39, He has a flesh and bone body, He ascended with this Spirituall body of flesh and bone, and HE will return in like manner at the consumation of the age, this is what scripture teaches, the literall return of Christ is what believers look for.
    Ivor Thomas.
    For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain , Phillippians 1 v21.

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    COuld Jesus have known the "generation" without knowing the day or the hour? Is there a difference?

    "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

    This does not claim that Christ did not know WHEN. IT just says He did not know the day or the hour, is there a difference?

    And in Revelation what did Jesus mean when He says "The time is near" and "Behold, I am coming quickly?"
    How do you view this "time statement" of Paul in Romans 13? The same word "salvation" was used before Moses parted the red sea, for the salvation of the hebrews from their enemies, the egyptians. Are Paul's followers still awaiting on this?

    Romans 13:11 And, this besides,--knowing the season--that it is an hour already for you out of sleep to be wakened; for, now, is our salvation nearer than when we believed:

    reve 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    I.C.A. Jesus was not raised from the Tomb has a Spirit, see Luke 24;v39, He has a flesh and bone body, He ascended with this Spirituall body of flesh and bone, and HE will return in like manner at the consumation of the age, this is what scripture teaches, the literall return of Christ is what believers look for.
    Ivor Thomas.
    Hi IT. That sounds good to me brother. I am only studying revelation to help me understand the bible. One thing that is really perplexing to me. Why is it we have a hard time proving to Israel and atheists that Jesus did indeed come to Jerusalem in the first century? Pretty amazing that a country that Jesus actually came to and they still don't believe He came in the flesh.
    Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
    I actually did a post on revelation showing proof that Jesus did resurrect and aked others why more christians aren't using verses from that book along with other verses from the NT. I believe in Jesus and God the Father beyone a reasonable doubt, and thank Jesus everyday for coming into my life and showing me His word.
    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=58288
    This is still a problem. It can only really work for you personally.

    A group of Biblical literalists who accepted that the Bible was God’s inspired and inerrant word inadvertedly convinced me to abandon Christianity. (Put it this way, that meeting was the final blow to my belief - as a young man of 20). I too believed that the Bible was God’s inspired and inerrant word, yet my opponents held sharply different views to mine. We both argued by pulling our own pet verses from the Bible to prove that which we wished.
    I suppose I will just have to wait until I die and then be resurrected before I see Him returning physically in the clouds. I was just answering loj post and asking questions. Blessings.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar
    All the things Jesus spoke of did begin to take place and Jesus continues to come quickly. The coming of the kingdom is seen in every new convert to Christianity.
    I understand Charles. But what does He mean when He says, Coming Quickly? That is all I am asking. What does His coming entail?

    Is it judgement?

    Is it the Kingdom of God?

    The Resurrection of the dead?

    What else does His coming consist of?

    Pauls eshcatology appears to be very imminent. Well not appears, it is clear. This is why I am asking the question.

    I have no clue with preterism/futurism is. I am just looking at this pretty much for the first time.

    So excuse my ignorance.

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    I understand Charles. But what does He mean when He says, Coming Quickly? That is all I am asking. What does His coming entail?

    Is it judgement?
    Is it the Kingdom of God?
    The Resurrection of the dead?
    What else does His coming consist of?
    Pauls eshcatology appears to be very imminent. Well not appears, it is clear. This is why I am asking the question.

    I have no clue with preterism/futurism is. I am just looking at this pretty much for the first time.

    So excuse my ignorance.
    Hi loj. Don't worry about the words futurism or preterism, but what the Bible is saying.
    If you have seen as many sites as I have seen on false prophecies in the bible, it would make you think how anyone could even believe in it.

    Daniel's 70 weeks gives a definite time statement for "his people", the jews. I just put myself in Israel's place and read the bible as a "jew" should be reading it today [instead of their Pagan Talmud].

    What reason did God choose Israel as His chosen nation in the bible and not another?. What other reason than to glorify Himself through them and their transgressions?
    Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me; 3 The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master's crib; [But] Israel does not know, My people do not consider."
    How could we as christians believe in the bible if God did not exact both deliverence and wrath on His firstborn Nation, Israel?

    It is through God glorifying Himself through Israel that the Gentiles became the ones that Israel is now envious of because they did not recongnize the time of His visitation and up to this day, it remains that way.
    Jeremiah 8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed, Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; In the time of their visitation[#06486], They shall be cast down," says the LORD.
    Those in Jesus's Name are the TRUE ISRAEL of GOD today. Blessings.

    Ezekiel 38:19 "For in My jealousy [and] in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: 'Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, Ezekiel 39:13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD.

    Dani 9:24 " Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.


    Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.

    Matt 24:21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    ICA. Did you comment on my questions? I cannot find it in your response. Like I said i am new to this. So when I am asking about a certain verse or aspect, doing biblical/ eschalogical hopscotch only muddies the waters for me

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    ICA. Did you comment on my questions? I cannot find it in your response. Like I said i am new to this. So when I am asking about a certain verse or aspect, doing biblical/ eschalogical hopscotch only muddies the waters for me
    Is it judgement?

    Is it the Kingdom of God?

    The Resurrection of the dead?

    What else does His coming consist of?
    Hi loj. If you are new to this, then you will really just have to take time off from forums and start really do deep word and bible studies on your own for awhile, as I do not want to influence you on my views or others. You will really have to understand/study the OT to really understand revelation in my personal opinion.

    Have you ever looked at these 2 passages in Paul below. It appears everything is accomplished at His coming, including His kingdom, "resurrection", judgement and glorifying the Saints.

    My view own personal view from reading/studying is "SYMBOLICALLY" the white throne judgement, showing the "dead standing", appears to be the same event as the 6th seal, one view from heaven, the other from earth, but that is just my view brother [and a rather "unique" view I will add]That actually opened up the whole book to me when I viewed it that way.

    I would recommend taking a break from forums if you want to study the book of revelation using lexicons, concordances and multi translations. [I put up 2 links that I pretty much use 7/24 if you are interested, and I avoid the KJV as much as possible as far as deep bible study as it is really not an accurate bible to use for this]

    I put up a lot of revelation/Daniel studies on another forum, and hopefully by the end of the year I will be able to do a commentary on it.

    http://newjerusalemministriesboards.com/index.php?

    http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm [multi translations]

    2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

    2 thess 1:7 and to [give] you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not OBEY the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence/FACE[#4383] of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes
    , in that Day, to be Glorified in His Saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed

    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html [lexicon/dictionaries]

    2Th 1:9 Who 3748 shall be punished 1349 5099 with everlasting 166 destruction 3639 from 575 the presence 4383 of the Lord 2962, and 2532 from 575 the glory 1391 of his 846 power 2479;



    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by InChristAlways
    Hi loj. Have you ever looked at these 2 passages in Paul below. It appears everything is accomplished at His coming, including His kingdom, "resurrection", judgement and glorifying the Saints. My view from studying is the white throne judgement showing the "dead standing" appears to be the same event as the 6th seal, one view from heaven, the other from earth, but that is just my view brother and a rather "unique" view I will add]

    I would recommend taking a break from forums if you want to study the book of revelation using lexicons, concordances and multi translations. [I put up 2 links that I pretty much use 7/24 if you are interested, and I avoid the KJV as much as possible as far as deep bible study]
    I put up a lot of revelation/Daniel studies on another forum, and hopefully by the end of the year I will be able to do a commentary on it.

    http://newjerusalemministriesboards.com/index.php?

    http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm [multi translations]

    2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

    2 thess 1:7 and to [give] you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not OBEY the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence/FACE[#4383] of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes
    , in that Day, to be Glorified in His Saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed

    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html [lexicon/dictionaries]

    2Th 1:9 Who 3748 shall be punished 1349 5099 with everlasting 166 destruction 3639 from 575 the presence 4383 of the Lord 2962, and 2532 from 575 the glory 1391 of his 846 power 2479;



    Much more edifying there ICA.. Thank you.

    Before I was scratching my head!!! hahahaha

    I asked about a verse in Rev, and you come back with Isiaiah , Jerry, Daniel.... I know it is connected, but hopscotch is distracting to me.

    I shared with Brandan last night, that I never noticed the stress Paul puts on the 2nd advent in his letters. That topic was spoken of greatly by him.

    I am currently reading some ideas from BB Warfield on Pauls Esgcatology, and it is very interesting and exciting.

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    Much more edifying there ICA.. Thank you.

    Before I was scratching my head!!! hahahaha

    I asked about a verse in Rev, and you come back with Isiaiah , Jerry, Daniel.... I know it is connected, but hopscotch is distracting to me.

    I shared with Brandan last night, that I never noticed the stress Paul puts on the 2nd advent in his letters. That topic was spoken of greatly by him.

    I am currently reading some ideas from BB Warfield on Pauls Esgcatology, and it is very interesting and exciting.
    Hi loj. I AGREE!!!!
    I sometimes wonder if Paul himself didn't vision revelation, but I really do not concern myself with who visioned it or even when and where, but what it is representing and I try to stress this to other Christians [the "endtime left behind" books have mocked the Bible for so long, I think it is time for True spirit led christians to take a deeper, more spirit led look at revelation].

    I am just glad to see you wanting to get into studying that very Divine and Symbolic book and like I said, at my forum, I and others on there discuss the OT scriptures more deeply and one must KNOW the OT if they are to study revelation I think.[the unbelieving jews stick with the Torah and Talmud so they will never understand why Jesus was the True Messiah]

    Also, the 2 nations of Judah["jews"] and Israel must be distinguished in the OT Prophecies. Good luck in your studies brother, as you are in for a real "treat". Blessings
    romans 13:11 And this, knowing the time, that for us, the hour already [is] to be aroused out of sleep, for now nearer [is] our salvation than when we did believe; 12 the night did advance, and the day came nigh; let us lay aside, therefore, the works of the darkness, and let us put on the armour of the light;

    exodus 14:13 And Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will accomplish for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more forever. 14 "The LORD will fight for you, and you shall hold your peace."
    Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

    1 corin 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing [it.] For the form of this world is passing away.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Does preterism say that Christ returned in 70AD?

    I do not understand this because is not Christs return suppose to be universal? Everywhere? and not in one Local place?

    Againt ese are premature observations in recent readings. I am nowhere near being conclusive on anything yet.


    Joe

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    Does preterism say that Christ returned in 70AD?

    I do not understand this because is not Christs return suppose to be universal? Everywhere? and not in one Local place?

    Againt ese are premature observations in recent readings. I am nowhere near being conclusive on anything yet.


    Joe
    Hi loj. I have nowhere even come close to being conclusive in the Bible!!!! I still feel this Book just "dropped out of Heaven" from God Himself, so I read it as a heavenly Divine book and I suppose that is one reason I view it in ways that others don't.

    Besides, have you ever seen anyone yet that agrees completely and conclusively with another on Scripture?

    I mean, where else can you read stuff like this. What does leviathan represent for example? I can't even explain this without sounding like a "nut" LOL.

    Unbelieving Israel should know what this represents, but then they look at scripture "carnally" and not spiritually. Again, it boils down to FAITH and belief in the Bible itself and must be read DAILY, from Gensis to Revelation and let the Spirit of Christ guide us in it. To me, no other Book in the world is like it as it is not of this "world". Blessings.

    Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that [is] in the sea. 2 In that day sing to her, "A vineyard of red wine! 3 I, the LORD, keep it, I water it every moment; Lest any hurt it, I keep it night and day.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by InChristAlways
    Hi loj. I have nowhere even come close to being conclusive in the Bible!!!! I still feel this Book just "dropped out of Heaven" from God Himself, so I read it as a heavenly Divine book and I suppose that is one reason I view it in ways that others don't.

    Besides, have you ever seen anyone yet that agrees completely and conclusively with another on Scripture?

    I mean, where else can you read stuff like this. What does leviathan represent for example? I can't even explain this without sounding like a "nut" LOL.

    Unbelieving Israel should know what this represents, but then they look at scripture "carnally" and not spiritually. Again, it boils down to FAITH and belief in the Bible itself and must be read DAILY, from Gensis to Revelation and let the Spirit of Christ guide us in it. To me, no other Book in the world is like it as it is not of this "world". Blessings.

    Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that [is] in the sea. 2 In that day sing to her, "A vineyard of red wine! 3 I, the LORD, keep it, I water it every moment; Lest any hurt it, I keep it night and day.
    Steve:

    Again, are their answers to my question located within your response!!!!! hahahahah

    you are killing me bro.

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    Steve:

    Again, are their answers to my question located within your response!!!!! hahahahah

    you are killing me bro.
    LOL. Read Isaiah through a couple of times "in the Spirit", and then tell me how you would view the NT after reading it.

    Have you ever wondered why the unbelieving "jews" in Israel mangle that book so much? I can't answer your questions because I don't really know how you view the Bible and I don't want to "influence" you with my views. Why do a lot of christians focus on "physical" Israel/Jerusalem today instead of the "Jerusalem above", our Mother?

    Have you looked at some of the topics I put up on revelation? That one book alone would take me a lifetime to ever comprehend.
    May I ask if you have ever really "deeply studied" the book of revelation? Thanks and blessings.

    Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning, 5 then the LORD will create above every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there [will be] a covering. 6 And there will be a tabernacle for shade in the daytime from the heat, for a place of refuge, and for a shelter from storm and rain.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: A Fresh Examination of Bible Truth on Chrst's Final Advent

    Quote Originally Posted by InChristAlways
    LOL. Read Isaiah through a couple of times "in the Spirit", and then tell me how you would view the NT after reading it.

    Have you ever wondered why the unbelieving "jews" in Israel mangle that book so much? I can't answer your questions because I don't really know how you view the Bible and I don't want to "influence" you with my views. Why do a lot of christians focus on "physical" Israel today instead of the Jerusalem above?

    Have you looked at some of the topics I put up on revelation? That one book alone would take me a lifetime to ever comprehend.
    May I ask if you have ever really "deeply studied" the book of revelation? Thanks and blessings.

    You know I have not Steve. I do nto believe I have even read the book past the seven churches.

    I was nto being disrespectful. Believe me, I am not easily influenced, ask Brandan... hahahahaa

    By reading Isiaiah in the Spirit, I will get an answer on my preterist question?

    No, I wont. See Steve like i mentioned before, I would like to make myself aware of the different camps out there and their system of beliefs. I was nto looking for and answer like " Yes those heathen, anathamised dumb preterists believe that craP'

    Well Brandan may answer like that.... LOL

    Anyway, you have spent countless hours on these questions, so when I ask, just answer. Because anything else gets me nowhere. I do nto have the time to spend hours upon hours with lexicons and concordances right now. So this piece meal approach will be better than where I was.

    I hope I am making sense.

    So again , I will ask this.

    Does preterism say that Christ returned in 70AD?

    I do not understand this because is not Christs return suppose to be universal? Everywhere? and not in one Local place? ie jeruselem.

    Thanx in advance


    Joe

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