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Thread: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

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    The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    The Church is not the Ekklesia. The Church is a whore.

    Like it or not, it's the truth.

    1) Show me the Royal Priesthood of all believers!

    You can't because it's not happening. You can find a "one man show" where the pope, errr.. I mean pastor is in charge.

    2) Show me the mutual edification of the saints!

    You can't prove this either. See above.

    3) Show me the Lord's TABLE such as the accounts given in the Gospel and Pauline epistles!

    This isn't happening either. HOWEVER, we have a spitting image of Eucharist don't we???

    4) Show me ONE group of elders, able to teach, beyond reproach, who are equipping the saints unto good works!

    They equip the laity for choir practice, bake sales, bible studies, tithing, and every other form of church oriented social activities.

    5) Show me where Scripture teaches clergy/laity distinction!

    It doesn't. Strange how redundant this post is.

    6) Show me WHERE in Scriptures Jesus promised to build His assembly out of both regenerate and unregenerate men!

    You can't. And you never will...

    "Oh, but the true ekklesia doesn't exist" you say? Then you condemn yourself knowingly joining yourself to a whore.



    (2Co 6:14-18)"...Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
    And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols?


    For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Scott,

    A most excellent post, these are my sentiments as well.

    ~Anthony
    Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Scott
    I appreciate your vigor. It is much needed sometimes around here. Thanks for your boldness. You make some great points! Many will be offended by this-guess you will go cry about that now-huh? haha

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Scott, sounds like you've been listening to some Derek Webb.


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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Scott,

    Do you think in the scriptural sense the word ‘whore’ means idolatry or an idolatrous relationship?

    I have always understood the ‘whore’ to be the Roman Catholic Church from which there has been a beginning ‘coming out of her’ through the reformation. Not, however, in the fullest or complete sense, hence the points of your post.

    Would you consider any ‘visible church’ today the ‘whore’ also and if so wouldn’t anyone, in that conviction, be called to ‘come out from among her and touch not the unclean thing”, not only in the sense of joining but in any sense of communion with her? I know of many who have done that by becoming separatists using 2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 as their reference to the calling to do so.

    How would we know if we assembled with 10 people every Sunday, apart from the ‘visible church’, who professed Christ that we still were not assembled with a reprobate? If 10 assembled, and 7 were believers, wouldn’t the true ekklesia have assembled with 7?

    Just some thoughts and questions for you. I agree that we are far, far from the true Ekklesia and we yearn for that purity of fellowship. We can find that unity and purity with a few while we sojourn here and I have found that with a few within the ‘visible church’, as well as with a few here, and I am thankful to God for each of them.

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    a quote from Bavinck:

    The chiliast expectation that a converted nation of Israel, restored to the land of Palestine, under Christ will rule over the nations is without biblical foundation. Whatever the political future of Israel as a nation, the real ekklesia, the people of God, transcends ethnic boundaries. The kingdom of God in the teaching of Jesus is not a political reality but a religious-ethical dominion born of water and of Spirit. The salvation rejected by Israel is shared by the Gentiles, and the community of Christ-believers has in all respects replaced national Israel. New Testament passages such as Romans 11, which initially seem to teach the contrary, in fact confirm the teaching that God's promises are fulfilled in a spiritual offspring of Abraham, even though they may be only a remnant. Furthermore, the New Testament nowhere suggests that the church of Christ will ever achieve earthly power and dominion such as that of Old Testament Israel. Instead, like its master, the pilgrim church can expect a cross of persecution and suffering. The New Testament does not recommend virtues that lead believers to conquer the world but rather patiently to endure its enmity. John's apocalypse assures the suffering church of all times that it shares the certainty of Christ's victory even in the face of terrible anti-Christian apostasy, lawlessness, and persecution. Revelation 20, in analogy with the rest of Scripture, confirms this conclusion rather than lending support to chiliast dreams of world rule (as well as those of theonomists, AdH). Also, Revelation 20 does not teach the chiliast doctrine of a twofold resurrection; the "first" resurrection simply refers to those faithful who die and immediately live and reign with Christ in heaven. When human apostasy and wickedness reach the apex of power and the world is ripe for judgment, Christ the king will suddenly appear to bring about the end of world history. Jesus' disciples are to be watchful of the signs but they are also forbidden to calculate. All believers ought at all times to live as though the coming of Christ is at hand (p.99).

    ....also consider this critique of the NIV translation.....

    The NIV makes concessions to Pre-millennialism and Dispensationalism in its translation. This is the case in Acts7:38, part of the speech of Stephen to the Jewish council before his martyrdom. The KJV reads: "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the Mount Sinai." The NIV reads: "He was in the assembly in the desert, with our fathers and with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai." Deliberately the word "church," which in the Greek here is the well-known word "ekklesia," is changed to "assembly," and the repudiation of the Pre-millennial/Dispensational error that separates Old Testament Israel from the New Testament, Gentile church on the basis of Acts7:38 is lost.
    Greetings and salutations, el rana

    21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Proverbs chapter 19

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Deliberately the word "church," which in the Greek here is the well-known word "ekklesia," is changed to "assembly," and the repudiation of the Pre-millennial/Dispensational error that separates Old Testament Israel from the New Testament, Gentile church on the basis of Acts7:38 is lost.
    Hi rk. Didn't you know the KJV is the dispensationalist's bible of choice They also don't see the "church" in revelation after chapter 4 so I asked them how could the catholic church be the Harlot then? They said catholics weren't save so they wouldn't be raptured. That means it will be the unbelieving jews left behind against the Muslims? But have no fear, a remnant of Israel will be saved.
    4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred [and] forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel [were] sealed:
    Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred [and] forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.


    I started off with the NIV[and still read it] so maybe that is what saved me from that doctrine?

    KJV lexicon.
    church occurs 80 times in 79 verses: Page 1, verses 1 - 25

    Quote ICA: If the church isn't in revelation, then how can the "catholic church/pope" still be in there, as most futurists/dispys say the pope/vatican is the "harlot"? confused_1.gif.

    Quote from poster: Because they are not the church. Those who have the Holy Spirit are the church. Not every one who said Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
    If they really believe this, they would not need to pray to Mary, would not be doing good works to be saved. They would be doing good works because they are saved. One could go on and on with this.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    "Church" is an English word (there are similar words in other European languages) referring to an INSTITUTION OF RELIGION. Of course it is not equivalent to the EKKLESIA founded by Christ! Jesus did not found a religious institution, he founded a New and Everlasting people united to God as evidenced by faith in his person and work!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    "Church" is an English word (there are similar words in other European languages) referring to an INSTITUTION OF RELIGION. Of course it is not equivalent to the EKKLESIA founded by Christ! [RRH]

    Agree with you on this one, Bob. I personally dislike this word more and more each day. In my mother tongue (Swedish) it is "kyrka". In Finnish it is "kirkko". And it is used very much in both tongues. If I had to pick one world which embodies "religion" I think it would be "church". It smells of religion, it tastes of religion, it looks religious. So it means its essence cannot be but that old dead thing called religion. "church" is one of those "fabricated words" Peter cautions about in 2Peter 2. The same applies to a host of other churchianity words and terms.

    Harald

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    I would say that it is not the similarity of the word to the term "ek-klesia" or the lack thereof; I believe the tragedy is the loss of the purest concept of the word as Jesus intended it to mean, or the "the organism chosen to the the channel where God would flow as He fulfills His eternal plan", the people forever united to Him, the congregation of the elect, the Congress of Heavenly affairs. This loss of meaning and the lack of interest in pursuing the meaning is what represents a tragedy in the history of what is known as "christianity".

    The concept of "church" is purely "religion" as it has been said here; religion comes from the Latin "religare" which means to re-link, re-tie, re-connect something to something else as if there is anything that can connect man to God than Jesus himself! This system is "religion" or "religare" has become an "organization" and has, as an impostor, taken the place of the Holy Organism started by Jesus.

    In other languages there are words that are more similar to ek-klesia than the word "church" used in English and the words mentioned by Harald, but that does not mean that the system is in any way different than religion.

    église - In French
    chiesa - In Italian
    ecclesia - In Latin
    igreja - In Portuguese
    iglesia - In Spanish

    Even in Portuguese, my language, I have a hard time reconciling the Biblical ek-klesia with the concept known as "igreja".

    Milt
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    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    ditto

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow
    The Church is not the Ekklesia. The Church is a whore.

    Like it or not, it's the truth.

    1) Show me the Royal Priesthood of all believers!

    You can't because it's not happening. You can find a "one man show" where the pope, errr.. I mean pastor is in charge.


    2) Show me the mutual edification of the saints!

    You can't prove this either. See above.


    3) Show me the Lord's TABLE such as the accounts given in the Gospel and Pauline epistles!

    This isn't happening either. HOWEVER, we have a spitting image of Eucharist don't we???


    4) Show me ONE group of elders, able to teach, beyond reproach, who are equipping the saints unto good works!

    They equip the laity for choir practice, bake sales, bible studies, tithing, and every other form of church oriented social activities.


    5) Show me where Scripture teaches clergy/laity distinction!

    It doesn't. Strange how redundant this post is.


    6) Show me WHERE in Scriptures Jesus promised to build His assembly out of both regenerate and unregenerate men!

    You can't. And you never will...

    "Oh, but the true ekklesia doesn't exist" you say? Then you condemn yourself knowingly joining yourself to a whore.




    (2Co 6:14-18)"...Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
    And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols?


    For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

    Good Post, I agree wholeheartedly...
    There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what...is called Calvinism...It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    charles spurgeon

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    Re: The Church is not the Ekklesia...

    dear friends, Just read most of these posts regarding the "church" is not the Ekklesia, and this is the main point of the Book of Peter Dunstan "The Truth will set Free." and all the rest.

    English Rose

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