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Thread: What to do with Acts 22:16?

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    What to do with Acts 22:16?

    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SIN, calling on the name of the Lord.(acts 22:16) What a strange paradox! A man who heard the Lord's voice and who had appeared to him on the damascus road(22:6-7) Paul was in repentance after this encounter. No food or drink for three days(acts 8:9) Paul was blind and without the Holy Spirit at this point(acts 8:17) Interestingly Acts 8:18 says he received his sight and was Baptized after Ananias spoke to him. This is in line with Acts 2:38,"Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remmission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." The sinner is still in the guilt of his sins until he repents and is baptzed. Jesus taught Nicodemus that in order to be born again one must be "born of water and of the Spirit"(john 3:5) Jesus said to Nicodemus that one must have his sins washed away(conscience cleansed) and be renewed by the Holy Spirit. This is backed up by Titus in Titus 3:5, "but according to His mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." So what we have is irrefutable proof that the Apostle Paul was still in the guilt of his sins until he was water baptized by Ananias. "arise and be baptized and wash away yor sin." Peter spoke of this in 1 Peter 3:21,"whereunto even baptism doth also now save us(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience towards God.) See, when one is water baptized, one is crucified with Christ (symbolicly) (Romans 6:3) But literally during the act, we allow Christ to take away the guilt of our sins just as Paul did. He who knew no sin became sin for us.(He who knew no guilt became guilt for us.) As Paul states in Romans 6:4, the walking in newness of life comes after baptism. For Paul wrote in Gal 3:27,"for as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Paul wrote that to put on Christ, you have to be baptized into Christ. The power is not in the water, but in the blood of Christ who died on the cross. We are washed by the blood of the Lamb duing baptism( and be baptized, and WASH AWAY YOUR SIN. Acts 22:16) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.(Hebrews 10:22)

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Buckyteeth,

    I don't have a lot of time at the moment but I wanted to make a few quick comments. Your whole argument is exactly how the cultists such as the Jehovah's Witnesses present their case. Stringing a bunch of scriptures together without considering much of the context of the specific passages nor of the overall teaching of Scripture.

    You can keep your water gospel, as for me I don't have to "allow Christ to take away the guilt of our sins" as he has accomplished that in His work 2000 years ago. I will rest in Christ's work of Redemption knowing that I have been clothed in His Righteousness that He earned and imputed to me. This is His marvelous work.

    You refer to the cleansed conscience, I say you have no idea nor the experience of the cleansed conscience believing in such a false gospel. You see my friend, salvation is about Christ and His work, about His dispensing His grace to His people. It's not about baptism, nor is it even about one's faith. None of these saves anyone. It's only Christ's blood and righteousness that saves a soul.

    ~Anthony
    Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Acts 22:16 simply quotes what Ananias, devoted to the Jewish law (vs. 12), said to Paul--in no way does not imply that what Ananias said was the truth. Paul was commissioned not to water baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17). Ananias at this point in time did not know the full-corn gospel that God would reveal to Paul; Paul himself did not yet know it.

    Acts 2:38 also reveals Peter's beliefs at the time he preached only to Jews; he had not yet learned the same full-corn gospel of sola fide that God would reveal to him in Acts 10. This is not to imply that his earlier message was false--it lacked the clarity of the later message and might have caused some to think that water baptism was a condition of receiving remission of sins and the baptism of the Spirt--which Acts 10 proves wrong.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Praise God, Anthony, I too am so fed up with all this "allowing Christ/God" theologies, how arrogant of sinners to allow HIM to do anythingn!!

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias Crisp
    Buckyteeth,

    I don't have a lot of time at the moment but I wanted to make a few quick comments. Your whole argument is exactly how the cultists such as the Jehovah's Witnesses present their case. Stringing a bunch of scriptures together without considering much of the context of the specific passages nor of the overall teaching of Scripture.

    You can keep your water gospel, as for me I don't have to "allow Christ to take away the guilt of our sins" as he has accomplished that in His work 2000 years ago. I will rest in Christ's work of Redemption knowing that I have been clothed in His Righteousness that He earned and imputed to me. This is His marvelous work.

    You refer to the cleansed conscience, I say you have no idea nor the experience of the cleansed conscience believing in such a false gospel. You see my friend, salvation is about Christ and His work, about His dispensing His grace to His people. It's not about baptism, nor is it even about one's faith. None of these saves anyone. It's only Christ's blood and righteousness that saves a soul.

    ~Anthony
    If you say a person doesnt have anything to do with Christ saving them from their sins, Why would Peter tell the crowd of unbelievers in Acts 2:40,"and with many other words did he testify and EXHORT, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation" verse 41 says,"then THEY THAT GLADLY RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED." As Jesus plainly says in Mark 16:16,"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" Paul was told " and be baptized and wash away thy sins..." Acts 22:16. Remember, Apostle Paul was recounting his conversion to Christ in a letter to Theophilus. Ananias was sent by the Lord Jesus Christ to Paul. Ananias was not a follower of Judaism, But of Christ,"And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias, And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."(Acts 9:10) The Lord directed Ananias what to do -PERFECTLY, PAUL wrote of his conversion by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit-PERFECTLY. Ananias was a follower of Christ- proven by acts 9:10-PERFECTLY. Doesnt Romans 10:9 state," That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God Has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." doesnt this verse fit Ananias?-He said," behold, I am here, Lord" and Paul wrote of Ananias," a certain disciple"(follower of Christ). I would say it fits him- PERFECTLY

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby
    Acts 22:16 simply quotes what Ananias, devoted to the Jewish law (vs. 12), said to Paul--in no way does not imply that what Ananias said was the truth. Paul was commissioned not to water baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Cor. 1:17). Ananias at this point in time did not know the full-corn gospel that God would reveal to Paul; Paul himself did not yet know it.

    Acts 2:38 also reveals Peter's beliefs at the time he preached only to Jews; he had not yet learned the same full-corn gospel of sola fide that God would reveal to him in Acts 10. This is not to imply that his earlier message was false--it lacked the clarity of the later message and might have caused some to think that water baptism was a condition of receiving remission of sins and the baptism of the Spirt--which Acts 10 proves wrong.
    It doesnt say Ananias in Acts 22:12 was "devoted to Jewish law". It is written that he was " a devout man ACCORDING to the law" It mentions no where in the Bible that Ananias was a follower of the law at the time Jesus spoke to him. But it is written in Acts 9:10," and there was a CERTAIN DISCIPLE at Damascus named Ananias..." DISCIPLE=FOLLOWER. How can Peters message "lack clarity" when he spoke to the crowd in Acts chapther 2, when HE was under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit? So what you must be implying is that the Holy Spirit "lacked clarity" when HE inspired Peter to preach the gospel to that crowd.

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by buckyteeth
    If you say a person doesnt have anything to do with Christ saving them from their sins, Why would Peter tell the crowd of unbelievers in Acts 2:40,"and with many other words did he testify and EXHORT, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation" verse 41 says,"then THEY THAT GLADLY RECEIVED HIS WORD WERE BAPTIZED." As Jesus plainly says in Mark 16:16,"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" Paul was told " and be baptized and wash away thy sins..." Acts 22:16. Remember, Apostle Paul was recounting his conversion to Christ in a letter to Theophilus. Ananias was sent by the Lord Jesus Christ to Paul. Ananias was not a follower of Judaism, But of Christ,"And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias, And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."(Acts 9:10) The Lord directed Ananias what to do -PERFECTLY, PAUL wrote of his conversion by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit-PERFECTLY. Ananias was a follower of Christ- proven by acts 9:10-PERFECTLY. Doesnt Romans 10:9 state," That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God Has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." doesnt this verse fit Ananias?-He said," behold, I am here, Lord" and Paul wrote of Ananias," a certain disciple"(follower of Christ). I would say it fits him- PERFECTLY
    Hi Bucky. I haven't seen what your question is. It is alright to quote scripture and make statements, but what exactly are you trying to get across to us. Another words, ask us a question and then we can know how to reply, at least as far as me replying. Thanks.
    Steve

    In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Hello InChristAlways, well, the question is What to do with Acts 22:16. My wife was brought up in the Doctrines of Grace for 27 years; her father was a preacher in a calvinistic baptist church, so I became aware of these doctrines along time ago. My wife held to these teachings stridently and without any hesitation in her belief. We use to openly discuss our beliefs so as to ascertain what God's word is for us today. We were 180 degrees apart. But that all changed one day when a preacher friend of mine asked her if he could listen to some tapes of past preaching by her father. Several days later my friend called us and he desired for us to visit with him and he wanted to talk to my wife alone. About 30 minutes went by when my wife came out crying, and I asked my freind what was wrong. He told me he had played a tape of her father preaching about Acts 22:16 and how very clearly her father said on the tape about what the Apostle Paul wrote to Theophilus what Ananias said to him in Acts 22:16. Her father said of this verse," I dont know how this verse got in here, but it must be from the devil." and/or " Ananias was speaking from under the devils influence".and/or " Ananias spoke on his own accord to Paul and that Ananias was not under Christ's influence." He states it is one of these explanations. Well my friend spoke to my wife after the tape stopped and showed her 2 Timothy 3:16, " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instuction in righteousness." That part right there," All scripture is given by inspiration of God" is why my wife was crying. She instantly realized how could Ananias be lying to Paul? or how could Ananias be mistaken in what he spoke to Paul?, or how could Paul be wrong in what he wrote in 22:16? or how could satan get this verse in the Bible? She realized that it is true," All scripture is given by inspiration of God" and that what Ananias said to Paul in 22:16 was inspired by God, and what Paul wrote to Theophilus in 22:16 was by inspiration of God-and know one else. The verse Says what it means and means what it Says-BY INSPIRATION OF GOD. So the question is again, What to do with Acts chapter 22 ? Are all these verses inspired by God? Did Ananias speak to Paul under inspiration of God? Did Paul write the scriptures of Acts chapter 22 to Theophilus under inspiration of God?

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    One Calvinist saying something stupid does not condemn Calvinism but condemns the person saying such a stupid thing. Calvin certainly explained the passage as Holy Scripture and the Westminster Divines certainly explained the meaning of passages like this. Calvin wrote:


    But when he saith, Wash away thy sins, by this speech he expresseth the
    force and fruit of baptism, as if he had said, Wash away thy sins by
    baptism. But because it may seem that by this means more is attributed to
    the outward and corruptible element than is meet, the question is, whether
    baptism be the cause of our purging. Surely, forasmuch as the blood of
    Christ is the only means whereby our sins are washed away, and as it was
    once shed to this end, so the Holy Ghost, by the sprinkling thereof
    through faith, doth make us clean continually. This honor cannot be
    translated unto the sign of water, without doing open injury to Christ and
    the Holy Ghost; and experience doth teach how earnestly men be bent
    upon this superstition. Therefore, many godly men, lest they put
    confidence in the outward sign, do overmuch extenuate the force of
    baptism. But they must keep a measure, that the sacraments may be kept
    within their bounds, lest they darken the glory of Christ; and yet they may
    not want their force and use.
    Wherefore, we must hold this, first, that it is God alone who washeth us
    from our sins by the blood of his Son; and to the end this washing may be
    effectual in us, he worketh by the hidden power of his Spirit. Therefore,
    when the question is concerning remission of sins, we must seek no other
    author thereof but the heavenly Father, we must imagine no other material
    cause but the blood of Christ; and when we be come to the formal cause,
    712
    the Holy Ghost is the chief. But there is an inferior instrument, and that is
    the preaching of the word and baptism itself. But though God alone doth
    work by the inward power of his Spirit, yet that doth not hinder but that
    he may use, at his pleasure, such instruments and means as he knoweth to
    be convenient; not that he includeth in the element anything which he
    taketh either from his Spirit or from the blood of Christ, but because he
    will have the sign itself to be an help for our infirmity.
    Therefore, forasmuch as baptism doth help our faith, that it may reap
    forgiveness of sins by the blood of Christ alone, it is called the washing of
    the soul. So that the washing, spoken of by Luke, doth not note out the
    cause; but is referred unto the understanding of Paul, who, having received
    the sign, knew better that his sins were done away.
    F1368 Though we must
    also note this, that there is no bare figure set before us in baptism, but that
    the giving of the thing is thereto annexed; because God promised nothing
    deceitfully, but doth, indeed, fulfill that which under the signs he doth
    signify. Notwithstanding, we must again beware that we tie not the grace
    of God to the sacraments; for the external administration of baptism
    profiteth nothing, save only where it pleaseth God it shall. By this there is
    also another question answered which may be moved. For seeing Paul had
    the testimony of the grace of God, his sins were already forgiven him.
    Therefore, he was not washed only by baptism, but he received a new
    confirmation of the grace which he had gotten.

    Are you so carnally minded to think that sin is some sort of material object that can be washed away by water?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by buckyteeth
    My wife was brought up in the Doctrines of Grace for 27 years; her father was a preacher in a calvinistic baptist church, so I became aware of these doctrines along time ago.
    I will try to get to some of your points later. I do have a few comments about the quote above. I gather from your statements in this and other threads that you are most likely from the Church of Christ/Christian Church/Disciples of Christ tradition, sometimes called the Restoration Movement but most commonly known as Campbellism or Campbellites. You say your wife was brought up in the "Dotrines of Grace" I wonder if that church was really "Calvinistic" i.e. believing all 5 points of Calvinism and it's related implications, or if it was really a 4 1/2 point Arminian church that simply believed in "eternal security." It's pretty common for a Campbellite to call anyone believing in OSAS (once saved always saved) or "eternal security" a Calvinist.

    BTW, Wildboar's comment is right on the money, just because a professing "Calvinist" says something stupid (I might add idiotic) doesn't invalidate the truth of God's sovereignty, man's total depravity, Christ's effectual and particular atonement, sovereign election, the efficacious work of the Spirit in calling God's elect, and their subsequent preservation.

    ~Anthony
    Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Did Ananias lie to Paul in Acts 22:16? Ananias' words to Paul, as Paul quoted these words to Theophilus, were that Ananias' words were in the PRESENT tense. "...and be baptized, and wash away thy sins...." Paul was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The SINS Ananias was saying to wash away were with Paul in present tense- not PAST TENSE. Paul had SHAME and GUILT from sinning against God and His Christ. Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of; but the sorrow of the world worketh death. ( 2 Cor 7:10) So was Paul lying about his own testimony to Theophilus about Acts 22:16? or was Paul misinformed? -maybe he should have wrote in PAST TENSE about "...and be Baptized, and wash away thy sins..."

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by buckyteeth
    Paul quoted these words to Theophilus
    Steve, you made a similar statement before. Technically Paul didn't write to Theophilus nor did he quote words to Theophilus. Luke, the author of Acts, is the one writing to Theophilus and Luke reports these events.
    Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    I stand corrected- all references that Paul wrote Theophilus should be that Luke wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about Acts 22.

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    My father in law was a die hard TULIP believeing Calvinist- Totally the 5 doctrines of grace.

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    bucky:

    What if we started listing every wacky thing every Campbellite we ever knew said or did? The world is not large enough to contain such a list.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    I don't necessarily endorse these people, but this is a good material that is pertinent to this thread. Tjhe author's name is in the bottom of the article.

    It is called "101 Questions to Campbellites (not one addicted to canned soup, Campbell soup, that is...)

    These questions call for careful study. They have been compiled after many years of hard work in defense of the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus. These questions have already been on the BLOCK of execution have seen the field of battle and have emerged victorious in every skirmish. Joint Debate, private discussion, individual Bible study, these questions have raised in every arena. Let the Baptists never fear the result - simply ask the question and listen to the answers.

    1. Are YOU saved or Lost? See I Cor. 1:13. Rom 8:1.
    2. If saved, IS the love of God in YOUR HEART? See Rom. 5:5.
    3. If Saved, ARE you Born of God? I John 5:1
    4. If Saved, Is Christ in You? Col. 1:27; 2 Cor. 13:5.
    5. If you are Born of God, ARE you a Child of God? John 1:12; Rom. 8:16.
    6. If a Child of God, do YOU have Eternal Life? John 10:27, 28.

    7. Is Baptism a PART of the Gospel? I Cor. 1.17
    8. Could a man without ARMS and Legs preach the Gospel Paul preached?
    9. What is the Gospel Paul Preached? I Cor. 15:1-3.
    10. Do you preach the Gospel Paul preached? Cor. 1:17 Rom. 1:16, 17; I Cor. 2:2.
    11. Is Baptism an act of SOVEREIGN GRACE performed by God or is it an act of righteousness on man's part? Matt. 3:15; Titus 3:5.
    12. Were you redeemed by the precious waters of Baptism or by the precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ? I Peter 1 :18,19.
    13. If Baptism LITERALLY puts one IN CHRIST, What act LITERALLY puts CHRIST in You? 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27; Rom. 3:24,25.
    14. Did Jesus Christ know the plan of Salvation? John 14:6.
    15. Did Christ at any time or place personally tell a sinner to be baptized FOR or In ORDER to the Remission of Sin? If so WHEN and WHERE?
    16. Did Christ personally, at any time or place say to anyone, He That is Baptized not shall be damned?
    17. Is that Statement: HE THAT IS BAPTIZED NOT SHALL BE DAMNED, to be found anywhere in the Bible? If so . . . Where????
    18. Do you and your brethren, self-styled CHURCH OF CHRIST, not preach and teach, in word, precept and effect, that "HE THAT IS BAPTIZED NOT SHALL BE DAMNED"?
    19. Do you not further pollute your own imaginary scripture by inserting TWO imaginary requirements: (1) That it must be administered by a Church of Christ preacher, and (2) that when the candidate goes under the water, he MUST BELIEVE that act is for OR IN ORDER TO THE REMISSION OF HIS SINS????
    20. Do you not reject Baptist Baptism because of the absence of these two points????
    21. Since you and your brethren ADMITTEDLY preach and teach the above doctrine, in word and deed, and since such statement can not be found in the Scriptures. He That is Baptized not shall be damned, Is it NOT TRUE that you teach a doctrine that IS NOT in the Scriptures?
    22. You, furthermore, proclaim, your motto: Where the Bible speaks we speak, where the Bible is silent, we are silent: WHY DON'T YOU REMAIN SILENT ON ABOVE DOCTRINE". "He that is Baptized not shall be damned", BE SILENT, SUCH statement is NOT IN THE BIBLE.
    23. Since your entire approach is builded on an imaginary scripture which does not exist, your every effort is made to twist other scriptures and compel THEM to MEAN your Imaginary Scripture. NOW IS THIS STATEMENT FOUND IN THE BIBLE: "He that believeth not shall be damned"? Baptists preach that exactly as listed. DO BAPTISTS PREACH WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE? Now watch him twist.
    24. Is there an instance in the Bible where a sinner was saved without Baptism? Acts 15:9; Luke 7:48; I John 5:4; Acts 26:18; Eph. 1:11-13.
    25. Is Baptism a command to and for the Saved or Unsaved? Which? Remember there is only ONE BAPTISM !
    26. If to the UNSAVED are not the unsaved UNBORN OF GOD? Now, do you give commands to your child BEFORE IT IS BORN or AFTER it is born? Can an UNBORN child obey a parent?
    27. Do you and your Brethren not teach that the COMMANDS of God are given to the UNBORN and that they, the commands are but instruments BY WHICH the UNBORN can obtain BIRTH?
    28. You boast of LOGIC -where is there any LOGIC to this matter?
    29. If you say -Baptism is a command for the SAVED - you find yourself in the BAPTIST position, EXACTLY This you do not teach or believe. See Acts 2:41. WHO was baptized here?
    30. Do you and your Brethren not also teach and believe- that Jesus Christ was not the Son of God until after His Baptism?
    31. Whose Son was He in BETHLEHEM'S MANGER?
    32. Is not the sum of your doctrine simply this: He that lives Closest to the creek, lives closest to the Lord? He that lives furthest from the creek, lives furtherest from the Lord? Does this not place the DESERT dwellers at a distinct disadvantage? Then a Man's Salvation would be simple or difficult according to his GEOGRAPHICAL location? Does this sound like Jesus Christ in John 3:16?
    33. Are the FAMILY of God, the KINGDOM OF GOD and the CHURCH OF GOD ALL one and the SAME ???
    34. Do all who belong to the family of God also belong to the Church of God?
    35. Did God have a family before Pentecost?
    36. Then is it now possible to become a member of the family of God and not become a member of the Church at the same time?
    37. When and How did Jesus become a member of the Church of Christ?
    38. When and How did the Apostles become members of the Church of Christ?
    39. Was John's Baptism, Christian Baptism?
    40. Who Baptized Jesus Christ?
    41. Did Jesus Christ have Christian Baptism?
    42. Have you received the same kind of Baptism, Jesus and the Apostles received?
    43. Is Jesus Christ the Head of the Church of Christ?
    44. Since the Head of the Church received ONLY John's Baptism, is not John's Baptism, Christian Baptism?
    45. Or Has the Head of the Church received one KIND of Baptism and the Church altogether another Kind?
    46. Alexander Campbell received BAPTIST BAPTISM, and died with it. Did he go to heaven or hell? Campbell never did repudiate this baptism by a Baptist preacher, was he saved or lost?
    47. What kind of Baptism did the Apostles receive? Were they saved or Lost?
    48. What kind of Baptism did these Disciples who were baptized by the Apostles on the authority of Christ during his personal ministry receive? John 4:1-2. Were they saved or Lost? Was this before Pentecost?
    49. How was Abraham Saved? David? Enoch? John the Baptist? The Virgin Mary? The Demoniac of Gedara? The Penitent thief?"
    50. How were sinners saved between the Crucifixion of Christ and the Day of Pentecost?
    51. How is Abraham the FATHER of the FAITHFUL when he was not Baptized by a Campbellite preacher?
    52. Since the same FAITH dwelled in Timothy, his Mother and his Grandmother, were they not all saved alike?
    53. Who preached the Gospel to Abraham? Galatians 3:8.
    54. What Prophet in the Old Testament prophesied of BAPTISM?
    55. Did Peter preach to Cornelius that all the prophets bore witness to the fact that whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sin? Acts 10:43. Do you believe what Peter said?
    56. If Peter preached Baptism, FOR or IN ORDER TO REMISSION OF SIN in Acts 2:38, why did he not preach the same thing to Cornelius in Acts 10:42,43?
    57. In your sugar text which you yourself do not understand (Acts 2:38) how many words BETWEEN the word BAPTISM and the word REMISSION? You will have to cut 11 words out of your text before you can JOIN BAPTISM TO REMISSION OF SIN. What means these 11 words - which you and your brethren always avoid?
    58. What is the Greek Word translated or rather Anglicized into the word Christ in Acts 2:38? Why don't you put the exact Greek word in the text and then read Acts 2:38 to your people and quit making a childish play on the preposition FOR? When you do this you find complete harmony with Acts 10:43 and John 3:16 -Just a little kink right here give the people the original there- you won't have to notice the preposition so technically.
    59. Does the word WATER as used in John 3:5 mean Baptism? Why didn't Christ say what he meant to say? If he really meant Baptism -when he said water- by the same reasoning - He evidently meant Baptism in the next Chapter (John 4:7-15). Read again the story of the Woman at the well -substitute the word Baptism for Water everywhere it is found in the story exactly as you substitute the word Baptism for water in John 3:5- see what a story you make. False Doctrines always lead to muddy water. Where the Bible speaks -we speak.
    60. The sermon to Nicodemus was BEFORE Pentecost- Did Christ jump the gun by preaching to him when Pentecost had not come.
    61. Is the term "CHURCH OF GOD" a Scriptural term?
    62. Do you recognize people who call themselves CHURCH OF GOD?
    63. Does wearing a Scriptural NAME alone mean that BODY is a Scriptural Body? Upon that grounds do you refuse to recognize the Holiness people who call themselves by the name CHURCH OF GOD?
    64. If those people are going to Hell in spite of their name (According to your doctrine they are all lost), Then it will take MORE THAN A BIBLE name to save them -will it not?
    65. If it takes more than a BIBLE NAME to save the Holiness, this they will admit: Will it take more than a Bible name to save you? Will you admit it?
    66. Were the Converts and Disciples called CHRISTIANS on the Day of Pentecost? Were they saved? The Antioch Believers (Acts 11:26) were first to be called CHRISTIANS (10 years after Pentecost). Were the Antioch Believers any more saved than the Pentecost Believers? Did they call THEMSELVES Christians- or were they CALLED CHRISTIANS?
    67. Did Jesus or His Apostles anywhere in the 4 Gospels use the word Christians? Did Jesus know what to call his Followers? If it is of Divine Origin-why did not the name Originate with Jesus the True Authority in matters of religion?
    68. Did Jesus say to Nicodemus "Ye Must be born again" or did He say "Ye must be Baptized and wear the name Christian", Which?
    69. Were the members of "Church of God at Corinth" LOST because Paul failed to call them CHURCH OF CHRIST?
    70. Is it possible for anyone to be a Believer who is a member of a church not called the CHURCH OF CHRIST?
    71. Were these people lost who were members of the Church of God at Corinth?
    72. Were there any Churches in the New Testament -not called by the name- CHURCH OF CHRIST? Were their members saved or lost?
    73. Is the term THE CHURCH OF CHRIST found as a TITLE to any one CHURCH in the Bible anywhere? Give CASE AND NUMBER OF ROM. 16:16.
    74. Where was your CHURCH OF CHRIST when Alexander Campbell was being baptized by a Baptist preacher?
    75. Was Elder Luce, the Baptist preacher who Baptized Campbell, a Christian? Did Baptist Baptism put Alexander Campbell into the Church of Christ? If not, when and how did Campbell become a member of the Church of Christ?
    76. If Baptist Baptism put Campbell INTO CHRIST and HIS CHURCH -why will not Baptist Baptism do the same for people today?
    77. If Elder Luce did not Baptize Campbell INTO Christ when and where and HOW did Campbell ever get into Christ- since he died with Baptist Baptism, and never did repudiate it?
    78. If Campbell wee baptized into the Church of Christ by Luce's act, then was not the Church of Christ in fact already here?
    79. Then, How could Campbell's movement, "RESTITUTIONS", "THE REFORMATION", "THE CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATION", "DISCIPLES OF CHRIST', "CHURCH OF CHRIST", "CHRISTIAN CHURCH", ETC., EVER become the ORIGINAL CHURCH OF CHRIST?
    80. Are you a member of the ORIGINAL GENUINE CHURCH OF CHRIST or the one that grew out of Campbell's Reform movement? The Church of which Campbell was a member, he got in by BAPTIST BAPTISM. DO YOU HAVE THAT SAME BAPTISM? Then, if not, you do NOT BELONG to the original New Testament Church, but to the one that grew out of Campbell's movement . . . SELAH.
    81. Can you show in History anywhere on earth, a Church organized and operating as your self-styled Church of Christ operates today prior to 1826? Where was it located? What your authority? The scholarship of the world awaits your answer.
    82. Where was YOUR CHURCH OF CHRIST from Pentecost until Campbell's day? Almost 1800 years are unaccounted for. Where were YOU and your BRETHREN?
    83. Is it not a fact the ANTI-ORGAN wing of Campbell's movement split off a few years ago and got their younger set registered in Washington as THE CHURCH OF CHRIST?
    84. All Historians trace the origin of your young set back through the organ-wing of the Campbellite Church, back to the days of Campbell, Walter Scott and Barton W. Stone. Can you trace your origin beyond this date? Are Historians all liars or just plain ignorant?
    85. Your Doctrine of Church and Baptismal Salvation are both Fundamental doctrines. Did you know that the Catholics, the Mormons, the Jehovah Witnesses, and one Branch of the Holiness sect, are EXACTLY in harmony with you on these points? They tell the world the same story about Baptism and Church membership that you do -- identical doctrines. Why don't you fellowship these people?
    86. Why don't you tell your people the truth about the Music Question? What means the Greek Word PSALMOS or the Hebrew word MIZMOR? Read I Cor. 14:15, and define the words as you go. BOTH THESE WORDS MEAN "TO PLAY ON THE HARP OR OTHER STRINGED INSTRUMENT." (Liddell and Scott, 28th. Ed. Clarendon Press, 1903) (Standard Lexicon of New Testament Greek, Souter, 1916) Would David be able to worship at your Church should he return to earth? If Musical Instruments are so sinful, why will a Trumpet be blown at the Resurrection Day? Will you rise and rebuke the BLOWER of the TRUMPET and refuse to fellowship HIM because he uses AN EVIL INSTRUMENT ON THAT SACRED OCCASION? Read Psalm 150 for a good tonic.
    87. You loudly quote Mark 16:16 (First clause only), I don't believe that you or your brethren really believe Mark 16:16, any of it. He that believeth and is Baptized shall be saved? Only 2 things are mentioned. ARE YOU GOING TO HEAVEN? Your answer is I DON'T KNOW. HOW MANY IF'S AND PROVISOS will you have to insert into Mark 16:16, before you will take it, At least five.
    88. If you lose your present salvation, can you ever be saved a second time. Give a Chapter and verse for your answer.
    89. If you are saved NOW but might become UNSAVED tomorrow, would it not be wise for God to let you DIE today?
    90. In that case, would you not be outliving your salvation?
    91. Will God let you live TOO LONG?
    92. If He does, and you die and go to HELL, it is not God's Fault?
    93. How good will you have to be before God saves you?
    94. Did Jesus Die to save SINNERS or GOOD PEOPLE?
    95. If Baptism was essential to your FIRST Salvation is it not also essential to being saved a second time?
    96. Name one person in the Bible who was saved a second time ?
    97. Is not your entire program a matter of salvation by works?
    98. Do you know the difference in WORKS and GRACE? In Works, one does something for God: In Grace, God does something for us. Which would you rather go out to eternity with? Something you did or something God did. Which would afford the greatest JOY?
    99. Was Paul Thankful that God sent Him to preach only one part of the Gospel? 1 Cor. 1:17.
    100. If Faith always includes and involves Baptism - as you preach it - why did the Holy Spirit use two different words - if they mean and include each other? Mark l6:16.
    101. In Gal. 3:26, 27: "For Ye are ALL" (V. 26)
    "For as many of you"- (V. 27). Do these two statements mean and include the same people? Had ALL the people in verse 26 become Children of God? Had ALL of them been baptized or AS MANY OF YOU aa had been baptized?

    A. A. Davis, Nowata, Oklahoma
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    I hope all that typing of that list of 101 questions, statements and comments didnt bring injury to any of your fingers, because it is apparent you kept all eight of them busy for quite some time!

    Well pretty much, I'm a simple man that really enjoys simple things. So I'll try to stay simple in my responses.

    Was Saul of Tarsus when he was on the Damacus road saved from the guilt of his sins AFTER his encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Luke writes in Acts:9 that Saul was three days without sight, and neither did he EAT or DRINK. Why was Saul FASTING? Hey, before the encounter, Saul didnt even believe Jesus was the Messiah. Saul was out to put these Christ followers in JAIL- he persecuted the church-and to his amazement (he found out) he had been persecuting someone he didnt even believe in-Jesus Christ. " Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?' " Godly sorrow produces repentance LEADING to salvation..." ( 1 cor 7:10). Saul by his own actions-shows he was in fasting, great Godly sorrow, and in deep repentance AFTER his encounter with Christ.

    Alot of people think at this point Saul was a SAVED man. Saved from the guilt of his sins and eternally saved. Well, the truth is Saul at this point is ONLY fasting and in deep Godly sorrow and in repentance. If he was saved from the guilt of his sins he ought to be REJOICING. But he isnt rejoicing, he is HURTING. He is Physically hurting-cant see: Soul hurting-feeling sorrowful and fasting. He was full of GUILT.

    By his own words, Paul, wrote several years later to the Corinthians "Godly sorrow PRODUCES repentance LEADING to salvation..." Saul AFTER his encounter with Christ on the Damascus road-and three days later, needed SALVATION from the guilt of his sins. So Christ sent Ananias to Saul and Ananias said to Saul, "...hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, AND BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST." How could SAUL at this point NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT? Saul's REPENTED, Saul's SORROWFUL, Saul DEFINTELY BELIEVED, by now, that JESUS is the CHRIST; and still he has not the HOLY SPIRIT.

    Maybe it has to do that he still has the guilt of his sins upon his CONSCIENCE. ONLY the blood of Christ can PURGE the CONSCIENCE of SIN(guilt)," how much more shall the blood of Christ...PURGE your CONSCIENCES from dead works to serve the living God? ( Heb 9;14). The Holy Spirit could not dwell in Saul yet because the TEMPLE had not been SANCTIFIED yet. I guess I don't need to mention here that its the blood of Jesus that SANCTIFIES us do I?

    So once again, according to Paul, in his own words about the matter of his conversion, Ananias said to Saul, " why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized, and WASH AWAY THY SINS...." WASH away thy sins...blood of Christ PURGE your CONSCIENCES.(heb9:14) Ananias said,"...receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost." ( acts 9:17) " and immediately there fell from his eyes as it has been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." (vs 18)

    Funne how verses acts 9: 17 and 18 coincide. " receive sight and BE FILLED with Holy Spirit" " received sight forthwith...and was baptized"

    Peter said," Repent( which Saul had been doing for 3 days) and be baptized( which Saul hadnt done yet, but about do).....in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins( Saul was about to have his sin washed away calling on the name of the Lord) and ye shall receicve the gift ot the Holy Ghost( Saul didnt yet have the Holy Spirit, he had met Jesus 3 days earlier on the road to Damascus, but he was about to get up and wash away his sins and be filled with the Holy Spirit of God as a gift.--hmmmm. didnt I mention somewhere else that God is a REWARDER of those that DILIGENTLY SEEK Him. Saul got some great REWARDS I'd say- He Repented- He got his eyesight back- Got his SINS WASHED away- Got filled with the Holy Ghost.)

    I hope you didnt mind that I didnt respond 101 ways- I like to keep things SIMPLE.

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Bucky:

    So, when Jesus held the bread and the wine and said "This is my body" and "This is my blood" did he literally mean that? What about when He said He was the door? Is He a literal door? Is He a vine?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar
    Bucky:

    So, when Jesus held the bread and the wine and said "This is my body" and "This is my blood" did he literally mean that? What about when He said He was the door? Is He a literal door? Is He a vine?
    He wb. Could the baptism have been a type of "washing" that the High Priests had to do in the OT before entering the Tabernacle as most things in the NT were type/shadows of the "good things" to come? I don't have time right now to get into this part but what are some views on this. Thanks.
    Steve

    Exodus 40:30 He set the laver between the tabernacle of meeting and the altar, and put water there for washing;
    "There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"

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    Re: What to do with Acts 22:16?

    Dear Bucky,

    None of your arguments seem to do any damage whatsoever to Calvinism. What the scripture says makes total sense and doesn't demand the order solutus you purpose. Perhaps your desire to stay simple has over compensated and you are demanding more from the text than is actually there? The chain and timing of events in our salvation does not take away from the fact of God's monorgistical (alone, or single) working, whatever shape it might take. Your same simplicity in demanding and 'either or' instead of a 'both and' flies in the face of biblical understanding and biblical inspiration (which you seem to uphold). So I ask you, what about your question denies Calvinism?

    Even if Paul was not converted until his baptism - what case is that against Calvinism?

    I'm not familiar enough with Campbellism to know where you stand on many things - but your posts in this thread, tend to deny a Sovereign God, an eternal decree, and the Redemptive-Historical unfolding of the glory of Christ through the exact fulfillment of scripture - last but not least the efficacy of Christ satisfaction.

    Why would you worry about Act 22 - if Genesis to Revelation doesn't make sense to you? (I'm not mocking you here - just truly concerned about your doctrine of God)

    Thanks,


    Andrew T. Adcock
    "We see that our whole salvation and all its parts are comprehended in Christ[Acts 4:12]. We should therefore take care not to derive the least portion of it from anywhere else." - John Calvin

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