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Thread: What is "Dead Faith?"

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    "These things" in 2 Peter 2:10:

    "add to your faith virtue;
    add to virtue knowledge
    add to knowledge temperance
    add to temperance patience
    add to patience godliness
    add to godliness brotherly kindness
    add to brothely kindness charity"

    Now note:

    2 Peter 1
    1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

    2Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

    4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

    5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

    6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness;

    7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

    8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

    10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Prophecy of Scripture

    12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.


    It all starts because we have received "great and precious promises that makes us partakes of the divine nature".

    Nothing here is similar to "therefore a man is justified not by faith alone but by works". In fact in verse 3 and verse 9 He declares that we are both partakers of the divine nature and that the consequences of not practicing these things makes us like the blind. Nowhere, although Peter had the opportunity to introduce "justification" he does so, rather he says that we are forgiven but have forgotten about it.

    For the sake of the lurkers, I hope there is a firm declaration here that no one is teaching that the assurance of our Salvation is in works, neither that our Salvation is in anyway threatened by the lack of works. If anyone is saying that, then, we have a really big problem.

    I am confortable to say these things because of the analogy that I often use of the resurrected Lazarus: He was as alive as you and me coming out of the tomb; but he could not walk; he could only hop! He was bound and gagged by mummifying straps! A Christian who lives by law and works and not by Grace is a mummyfied Christian. He is alive but can't live. At the same time a Christian who does not act Christian, is still a living, resurrected Christian, but is nothing but a mummy! But this is totally different than saying that works give us assurance of our Salvation.

    Let's place no one's justification and assurance at doubt because of our need to defend James or our need to defend "works of charity".

    I could go into the other texts, but I prophesy that I will be called all kinds of condescending names, but no one will attempt to show me why.

    I beg of us all again: Let us clarify our position once and for all and tell as openly as we can, and as bluntly as we can express ourselves: FOR THE SAKE OF THE NEWCOMERS AND LURKERS HERE:

    Are we saying that our assurance of Salvation comes from "works" or anything that we "do"?

    Is that assurance for ourselves or for others or for both?

    If not, what is the assurance we are talking about?

    This is far from a command or a demand, but PLEASE, lest we be stumblingblocks to the weak in faith, and to show that we really believe that works is a by-product of our Election, let's clarify our position here once and for all.

    Once we clarified our position, please, let's focus on "Therefore a man is justified not by faith alone but by works" if we have not done that enough yet in the James thread.

    Milt
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    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

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    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Brother Milt,

    Thank You!

    I want to know for sure who here believes ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS. I know it's already been said, but I want to know for sure who believes this. WHO BELIEVES ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS? AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IT?

    Brandan
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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    John Calvin's Institutes on assurance.

    IV. Section 19
    Let us sum it up thus: As soon as the smallest particle of grace is infused into our minds, we begin to contemplate the Divine countenance as now placid, serene, and propitious to us: it is indeed a very distant prospect, but so clear, that we know we are not deceived. Afterwards, in proportion as we improve—for we ought to be continually improving by progressive advances—we arrive at a nearer, and therefore more certain view of Him, and by continual habit He becomes more familiar to us. Thus we see that a mind illuminated by the knowledge of God is at first involved in much ignorance, which is removed by slow degrees. Yet it is not prevented either by its ignorance of some things or by its obscure view of what it beholds from enjoying a clear knowledge of the Divine will respecting itself, which is the first and principal exercise of faith. For, as a man who is confined in a prison, into which the sun shines only obliquely and partially through a very small window, is deprived of a full view of that luminary, yet clearly perceives its splendor, and experiences its beneficial influence—thus we, who are bound with terrestrial and corporeal fetters, though surrounded on all sides with great obscurity, are nevertheless illuminated, sufficiently for all the purposes of real security, by the light of God shining ever so feebly to discover his mercy.

    I believe we start looking at our "works" for assurance we have no choice but to take our eyes off Christ and start looking to ourselves.
    "An expert is a person who avoids small error as he sweeps on to the grand fallacy."

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57
    Faith is the assurance (I concede to that), look at heb 11: 1 , Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence( assurance) of things not seen.

    But it produces obediance to the sovereign will of God, you wanr proof, look at heb vs 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Good works manifest evidence of true God given faith its all over scripture.
    Just so one knows I am not commenting on James but just this assurance topic.. 'cause there is so many different threads it seems within' one. I agree that faith is one's assurance. For who are we to judge which works are good and which are not? I know that the fruit of the Spirit is love, patients, kindness, etc and those one coud use but how often do we fall in that? And what is the measure of those things for assurance? And as noted earlier in the thread those who do not believe in the Gospel do just the same good works.. if not more than us!!
    I also believe that if one is regenerated that of course the desire in their hearts from God would be to follow Him and obey His Word. But everyone keeps focusing on the works, and that being evidence of someones regeneration it is not works but Gods grace and faith He has given.. If you bring in works you only confuse the matter. Focus on grace and God providing.. and in focusing on Christ of course their will be the fruits of the Spirit.. But we are not to figure out which those are.. but to read Gods Word and allow Him to bring about obedience in us!

    I may not be making any sense.. but just wanted to agree that assurance is faith given by God and not works. Its the focus people!
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Okay, I will try to clarify again. My post has nothing to do with James itself.

    2 Cor. 13:5..........Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do younot realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?----unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

    1 Tim. 4:15-16......Practice these things, devote yourself to them, so that ALL may see your progress. Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persis in this, for by so doing yo will save both yourself and your hearers.

    1 Tim. 5:25...........So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden.

    I agree with Bob that goats can produce conterfeit works of their own, and that the tares look like wheat for a time, how else, as Jude says, could people creep in unawares and not get caught immediately as false professors who are relying on their own works or merits.

    Rom. 8:16..........The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs---heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.

    What is the Spirit's witness? Where is the proof to us that Christ lives in us? If I dont see Christ living in me through the Spirit's witness.......how do I know He does? If there is no "fruit" of the Spirit of Christ in my life......what assurance do I have? Does the faith that the Spirit gives the elect really work to produce anything?
    Now we know also that Paul is not telling Timothy that he can actually save anyone from the wrath of God, nor can he save himself........so what is Paul talking about?
    So I will say this, not only do I want to see some answers to the above questions (please ), but if there are no works of the Holy Spirit in my life, no fruit, no evidence that Christ is in me.....what do I have to go on?
    I think the answer is.......nothing!
    To further illustrate what I am saying, look at Gal. 2:8.......How did Paul recognise that the things being done thru Peter were the works of the Spirit?
    If Christ is actually being formed in us........Gal. 2:20 and 4:19, will it never be manifest in this life.......if not, bring biblical proof, as this would appear to make Christ a failure at producing offspring.
    I will ask again.........does the faith given the elect produce bad fruit? or does it produce nothing? does the repentance the elect have been granted produce nothing? Can true repentance never have any evidence that it is in fact that which it is in the lives of the elect?

    So, I will state this, we are not saved by any of "our own works", we have nothing to offer God but the deeds of the flesh.......and all our righteousness is as filthy rags before Christ........but we are saved by the works of Christ alone........and His works produce good fruit.........ALWAYS. To fail to acknowledge this would be to slander Him I think!
    Do I need to be more clear, please let me know.
    Once again, James and any words that might be his, are not my contention here........they are not in view.

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Brother Milt,

    Thank You!

    I want to know for sure who here believes ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS. I know it's already been said, but I want to know for sure who believes this. WHO BELIEVES ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS? AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IT?

    Brandan
    Speaking for myself I don't think anyone claims his assurance is in his works but thier assurance rests in the spirit of God working in them to do good works. Not us but the Spirit.

    1 John 5:1-5
    5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

    We are assured by the Spirit that when we love the children of God, when we Love God, and when we keep his commandmants, God is in us working these works. This is how we are assured we are His. By the Spirit working in us.

    2 Cor 13:5
    5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    What I see in my being assured of my salvation by God is that I do things I have never ever done before which are completely out of my nature, and my nature would not allow me to continue in them. I see my conscience convicting my of sins I never even thought were sins and God working through me to overcome these sins. Not that I could ever do it but the Spirit in me. These I think are what is spoken of as assurance. But that is my understanding. I hope I brought my thoughts out in a clear way.

    John
    The grace which saves us is eternal to us, as is also our election in Christ. Those who are in Christ have everlasting life by that virtue alone and it is also plain Scriptural teaching that when God loves, He loves with an everlasting love and therefore draws His own to Him. (Jeremiah 31:3). Now there can be no eternal saving grace, no eternal election in Christ, no experience of God's eternal love where a soul is not justified. These aspects belong together as integral parts." …John Gill

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by MCoving
    Just so one knows I am not commenting on James but just this assurance topic.. 'cause there is so many different threads it seems within' one. I agree that faith is one's assurance. For who are we to judge which works are good and which are not? I know that the fruit of the Spirit is love, patients, kindness, etc and those one coud use but how often do we fall in that? And what is the measure of those things for assurance? And as noted earlier in the thread those who do not believe in the Gospel do just the same good works.. if not more than us!!
    I also believe that if one is regenerated that of course the desire in their hearts from God would be to follow Him and obey His Word. But everyone keeps focusing on the works, and that being evidence of someones regeneration it is not works but Gods grace and faith He has given.. If you bring in works you only confuse the matter. Focus on grace and God providing.. and in focusing on Christ of course their will be the fruits of the Spirit.. But we are not to figure out which those are.. but to read Gods Word and allow Him to bring about obedience in us!

    I may not be making any sense.. but just wanted to agree that assurance is faith given by God and not works. Its the focus people!

    Well said Mary, God is blessing your understanding in this matter. We should not focus on works , but on Christ...the works are just as sure as the faith to believe acts 13:48

    And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    Now look at eph 2:10

    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Does not ordain mean the same in both verses ? The faith to lay hold of christ is by divine sovereign decree and also the works...

    As we had no say in being given faith, likewise we have no say in the works we walk in....The whole salvation experience from a to z is a work of Divine sovereign grace. We as men sometimes don`t even percieve the works God is performing in and through us, but nevertheless I believe he does just as much as I believe he gave me faith...As far as me personally needing works to give me assurance, no I do not, I have the witness within that I`m a child of God..

    rom 8: 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    There has been long periods of time in my life where I had been stone cold to the things of God, No prayer, No fellowship , indulging in the lust of the flesh and of the mind ( like sampson ) but nevertheless I believed I was saved by the sovereign grace of God no Matter what my experiences dictated..I have no probem at all with not seeing with the natural eye good works as men would call them, but in my heart I knew and still know that God has saved me.... and I still believe James is inspired by God..
    There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what...is called Calvinism...It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    charles spurgeon

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    I will be as clear as I can. Do with it what you will. BTW, I no longer care about James in regards to this question... I am now just expounding things expressed in other books of the Bible.

    Assurance is provided to the regenerated child of God purely by the Holy Spirit, and it is by faith and works. True faith is not alone - good works are part of God's promise to His children. This is evidenced clearly in many places such as:

    Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23) gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


    I have provided in previous posts Scripture that supports my position. 1st John really cannot be any more clear. He wrote his letter so that "you may know that you have eternal life" and look at the things that he says:

    1Jo 2:3-6 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. (4) The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; (5) but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: (6) the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    I do not see how much more obvious it can be stated than this. We rejoice in our God given faith which brings assurance, and we also rejoice in our good works that have been provided by God for us to walk in for assurance. Assurance by works is not a denial of grace, it is a great testament to the grace of God working in His elect such that He provides for them good works to walk in. The denial of good works is a denial of the Holy Spirit's grace in our lives. I must conclude then that as much as it may seem pious to reject personal good works and the assurance they bring, I find it dangerous to deny the work of the Holy Spirit in the Christian's life.

    Works, obviously, have no bearing in our POSITION before God, but they do play a part in our CONDITION or EXPERIENCE as regenerated Christians. The good works that the Spirit graciously grants us help to fortify in our minds the fact that we have not falsely professed Christ.

    Even a verse that Milt highlighted (I'm not sure why..?) speaks directly to this truth:

    But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

    If anyone does not have these things listed by Peter they have "forgotten that [they] have been cleansed from [their] past sins". They have less assurance of their already forgiven sins! He even goes on to say that "as long as you practice these things you will never stumble", ie: you'll have great assurance and knowledge of your sins having been forgiven!

    Heb 6:10-11 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. (11) And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end

    Ministering to the saints (WORKS!) help one "realize the full assurance of hope until the end".

    The Westminster Confession of Faith says:

    16:2 These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith (Jam_2:18, Jam_2:22): and by them believers manifest their thankfulness (Psa_116:12, Psa_116:13; 1Pe_2:9), strengthen their assurance (2Pe_1:5-10; 1Jo_2:3, 1Jo_2:5), edify their brethren (Mat_5:16; 2Co_9:2), adorn the profession of the Gospel (1Ti_6:1; Tit_2:5, Tit_2:9-12), stop the mouths of the adversaries (1Pe_2:15), and glorify God (Joh_15:8; Phi_1:11; 1Pe_2:12), whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto (Eph 2;10), that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life (Rom_6:22).

    John Gill says such things as "for where there is true knowledge of Christ, there is faith in him; and where there is faith in him, there is love to him, for faith works by love; and where there is love to him, there will be an observance of his commands; and this is here made the evidence of the true knowledge of him" and "by keeping the word, and doing the commandments of Christ, which do not put a man into Christ, but only show that he is there; for a man's being in Christ is owing to the grace of God;"

    Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
    Gal 6:14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Amen Kyle, great post!

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by melted
    I will be as clear as I can. Do with it what you will. BTW, I no longer care about James in regards to this question... I am now just expounding things expressed in other books of the Bible.

    Assurance is provided to the regenerated child of God purely by the Holy Spirit, and it is by faith and works. True faith is not alone - good works are part of God's promise to His children. This is evidenced clearly in many places such as:

    Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23) gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


    I have provided in previous posts Scripture that supports my position. 1st John really cannot be any more clear. He wrote his letter so that "you may know that you have eternal life" and look at the things that he says:

    1Jo 2:3-6 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. (4) The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; (5) but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: (6) the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    I do not see how much more obvious it can be stated than this. We rejoice in our God given faith which brings assurance, and we also rejoice in our good works that have been provided by God for us to walk in for assurance. Assurance by works is not a denial of grace, it is a great testament to the grace of God working in His elect such that He provides for them good works to walk in. The denial of good works is a denial of the Holy Spirit's grace in our lives. I must conclude then that as much as it may seem pious to reject personal good works and the assurance they bring, I find it dangerous to deny the work of the Holy Spirit in the Christian's life.

    Works, obviously, have no bearing in our POSITION before God, but they do play a part in our CONDITION or EXPERIENCE as regenerated Christians. The good works that the Spirit graciously grants us help to fortify in our minds the fact that we have not falsely professed Christ.

    Even a verse that Milt highlighted (I'm not sure why..?) speaks directly to this truth:

    But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

    If anyone does not have these things listed by Peter they have "forgotten that [they] have been cleansed from [their] past sins". They have less assurance of their already forgiven sins! He even goes on to say that "as long as you practice these things you will never stumble", ie: you'll have great assurance and knowledge of your sins having been forgiven!

    Heb 6:10-11 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. (11) And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end

    Ministering to the saints (WORKS!) help one "realize the full assurance of hope until the end".

    The Westminster Confession of Faith says:

    16:2 These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith (Jam_2:18, Jam_2:22): and by them believers manifest their thankfulness (Psa_116:12, Psa_116:13; 1Pe_2:9), strengthen their assurance (2Pe_1:5-10; 1Jo_2:3, 1Jo_2:5), edify their brethren (Mat_5:16; 2Co_9:2), adorn the profession of the Gospel (1Ti_6:1; Tit_2:5, Tit_2:9-12), stop the mouths of the adversaries (1Pe_2:15), and glorify God (Joh_15:8; Phi_1:11; 1Pe_2:12), whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto (Eph 2;10), that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life (Rom_6:22).

    John Gill says such things as "for where there is true knowledge of Christ, there is faith in him; and where there is faith in him, there is love to him, for faith works by love; and where there is love to him, there will be an observance of his commands; and this is here made the evidence of the true knowledge of him" and "by keeping the word, and doing the commandments of Christ, which do not put a man into Christ, but only show that he is there; for a man's being in Christ is owing to the grace of God;"

    Tit 1:16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.
    Kyle, I agree with you, however I do believe that there are periods of time in a believers life when some of the more humanly perceptive works are not noticabel..like inward mourning and sorrow for sin...these things men cannot see, but he that looks upon the heart, behold he sees all..
    There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what...is called Calvinism...It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    charles spurgeon

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Kyle - I want you to post your resumé of "good works" right now! Assurance by works and justification before me and yourself? I want your resume! Post it!

    This goes for all of you who agree with Kyle's post! I want to see your "justification!"
    This is my signature.

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Brother Milt,

    Thank You!

    I want to know for sure who here believes ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS. I know it's already been said, but I want to know for sure who believes this. WHO BELIEVES ASSURANCE IS BY WORKS? AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IT?

    Brandan
    I do not. Assurance is by faith alone.... assurance, faith, repentance, works are all gifts of the Lord to the elect.

    http://www.predestinarian.net/showth...=lastpost&t=12

    Brandan...you might of changed your position on things, but I understand and agree fully with what you said in this post. Christ is the author and Finisher of our faith..... I do not have to strain at a gnat to understand that... I love the Lord...so do you...I know that you do....I have seen what you have wrote....the things you told me you went through before...they all testify to that...we want to serve Him...because we are thankful to Him for what He has done in our sin cursed lives. His grace was and continues to be sufficient for all the things in our lives. Man cannot merit with God...we have cast that dung aside many a time as we have the "faithfulness" of man dung doctrine on this forum.

    Great is THY faithfulness....Lord unto me.
    Greetings and salutations, el rana

    21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Proverbs chapter 19

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Kyle - I want you to post your resumé of "good works" right now! Assurance by works and justification before me and yourself? I want your resume! Post it!

    This goes for all of you who agree with Kyle's post! I want to see your justification!
    Brandan,
    Are you defining assurance as "how I know I belong to God"? I know I belong to God by the spirit working in me and testifying to my spirit?

    John
    The grace which saves us is eternal to us, as is also our election in Christ. Those who are in Christ have everlasting life by that virtue alone and it is also plain Scriptural teaching that when God loves, He loves with an everlasting love and therefore draws His own to Him. (Jeremiah 31:3). Now there can be no eternal saving grace, no eternal election in Christ, no experience of God's eternal love where a soul is not justified. These aspects belong together as integral parts." …John Gill

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    I am disappointed; the quote from Calvin seems to have been ignored! It is the increasing KNOWLEDGE OF GRACE in us that is the basis of our growing assurance. The love of the brethren is an 'added bonus' but John is not saying that having such a love INCREASES the assurance of God's imputed grace beyond what God's gift of believing gives us. It rather SUPPLEMENTS such assurance in giving us confirmation of our experiential transformation from death to life--not our justification before God!

    Well, I'm weary of all this. It seems that simple concepts should not become complicated.

    I was just informed of the untimely death by a massive stroke of a first cousin of mine, a 35 year old female physician practicing in Washington state. My wife and I just talked with her a lot a few weeks ago; we all attended a wedding of a relative in Kansas City together. Some of you will probably hear about it in the news--she took Imitrex (?) for migraine headaches and her death is being attributed to that.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by ray kikkert
    I do not. Assurance is by faith alone.... assurance, faith, repentance, works are all gifts of the Lord to the elect.

    http://www.predestinarian.net/showth...=lastpost&t=12

    Brandan...you might of changed your position on things, but I understand and agree fully with what you said in this post. Christ is the author and Finisher of our faith..... I do not have to strain at a gnat to understand that... I love the Lord...so do you...I know that you do....I have seen what you have wrote....the things you told me you went through before...they all testify to that...we want to serve Him...because we are thankful to Him for what He has done in our sin cursed lives. His grace was and continues to be sufficient for all the things in our lives. Man cannot merit with God...we have cast that dung aside many a time as we have the "faithfulness" of man dung doctrine on this forum.

    Great is THY faithfulness....Lord unto me.
    Ray, brother, that post of mine is one that I count as DUNG. I did not fully comprehend the Gospel at that time.

    I remember that post very well and for a while I contemplated hiding it (notice that it's in the old "low grace" archive). But today, I am glad to say that I have moved on from that.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby
    I am disappointed; the quote from Calvin seems to have been ignored! It is the increasing KNOWLEDGE OF GRACE in us that is the basis of our growing assurance. The love of the brethren is an 'added bonus' but John is not saying that having such a love INCREASES the assurance of God's imputed grace beyond what God's gift of believing gives us. It rather SUPPLEMENTS such assurance in giving us confirmation of our experiential transformation from death to life--not our justification before God!

    Well, I'm weary of all this. It seems that simple concepts should not become complicated.

    I was just informed of the untimely death by a massive stroke of a first cousin of mine, a 35 year old female physician practicing in Washington state. My wife and I just talked with her a lot a few weeks ago; we all attended a wedding of a relative in Kansas City together. Some of you will probably hear about it in the news--she took Imitrex (?) for migraine headaches and her death is being attributed to that.
    I am sorry to hear about the death of your first cousin.. that must be hard.. you're in my thoughts and prayers.

    I also agree with you that assurance is by faith and not works. Its by Gods Grace.. our assurance comes from God and Him being in us.. and Him revealing His grace to us.. thanks for that thought Bob!

    Mary
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    Kyle - I want you to post your resumé of "good works" right now! Assurance by works and justification before me and yourself? I want your resume! Post it!

    This goes for all of you who agree with Kyle's post! I want to see your "justification!"
    I don't understand this. I don't claim my works justify me. That is declared by God in eternity. The assurance of my salvation is a gift of god. This gift is shown many ways and some are an outward working of the Holy Spirit. How do I know I have faith? How do I know I am justified? Are there not inward signs and outward signs?

    John
    The grace which saves us is eternal to us, as is also our election in Christ. Those who are in Christ have everlasting life by that virtue alone and it is also plain Scriptural teaching that when God loves, He loves with an everlasting love and therefore draws His own to Him. (Jeremiah 31:3). Now there can be no eternal saving grace, no eternal election in Christ, no experience of God's eternal love where a soul is not justified. These aspects belong together as integral parts." …John Gill

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Brandan:

    If you had asked for my résumé there would be no room in this Forum for so many rags of unrighteousness and filth.

    Nothing I ever did "impressed" God and most men! Even the joy of practicing works was most of the time overpowered by the lack of recognition. I grew weary of "doing good" many times.

    One day, the day that God led me to Sovereign Grace (I have given this testimony here before) I threw my résumé at the face of God. I presented to him my lengthy curriculum vitae of works and challenged Him to bless me based on that. I even asked that which many are saying here in not so few words: "Don't my works prove to you God, that I am yours? Then WHY don't you bless me?"

    That's when in my heart I know for certain that God answered me something that made me understand Grace: I am throwing you résumé where it belongs now: the trash can! I did not save you, neither will I bless you in the basis of your résumé but on the basis of Christ's!

    In that moment I understood and began to study, pray, preach and teach about unconditional Grace based solely upon what Jesus did and not any of the filthy things I did such as founding "churches", getting jobs to poor people, feeding the hungry, loving my brothers and especially the "sisters", respecting established authorities in the "church", dressing the naked, undressing the clothed, casting out demons, and a few others things that I performed.

    Today I am diametrically opposed to the performance Gospel and to anything that stains Grace because I see nowhere in the Bible that Grace needs balance, that Grace needs help and that Grace can lose. If anyone accuses me of easy-belivievism for teaching this, I just pray for God to forgive them for slandering me! God deals with us by Grace! There is nothing other than Grace, there is no ingredient that completes Grace because Grace is complete. Even the Godly discipline we receive from Him, that hurts as a hot knife piercing our guts, IS BY GRACE!

    My résumé today is: GRACE, GRACE, GRACE! As such is not mine but Jesus'! Even if I am honored by God to help the least of my brother (never smaller and more "least" than me), I simply say that it was BY GRACE that I was able to help him!

    Grace plus nothing! That's MY assurance!

    It was Grace that taught my heart to fear
    And Grace my fears relieved...
    .........
    Through many dangers toils and snares
    I have already come
    'T WAS GRACE THAT BROUGHT ME SAFE THUS FAR
    AND GRACE THAT WILL LEAD ME HOME!

    A sinner, a slave trader, a drunk, a demon possessed man saved by Grace called John Newton wrote those words under God's inspiration. That's what I believe about me!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgipson
    I don't understand this. I don't claim my works justify me. That is declared by God in eternity. The assurance of my salvation is a gift of god. This gift is shown many ways and some are an outward working of the Holy Spirit. How do I know I have faith? How do I know I am justified? Are there not inward signs and outward signs?

    John
    I'm talking about James' "justification before men." Kyle here says good works are used for assurance of justification. I want to see what "good works" he sees in his life that provides justification before men - or his conscience.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: What is "Dead Faith?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby
    I was just informed of the untimely death by a massive stroke of a first cousin of mine, a 35 year old female physician practicing in Washington state. My wife and I just talked with her a lot a few weeks ago; we all attended a wedding of a relative in Kansas City together. Some of you will probably hear about it in the news--she took Imitrex (?) for migraine headaches and her death is being attributed to that.
    Wow Bob...35 years old . Did you know her well? What is the deal with this "Imitrex" ?? how is it that something even a physician takes winds up being attributed( by the Lord's sovereign will ..of course) to her death??
    What is up with these perscribtions??
    Greetings and salutations, el rana

    21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

    Proverbs chapter 19

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