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Thread: God's Will!

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    God's Will!

    dear friends,

    There is a teaching going around here in England that God has TWO wills - His permissive will and His decretive will. I only know of ONE - God's Sovereign will - which He appoints. Can anyone tell me please who may have started this erroneous teaching, as its really taken hold, and we had to leave our last church because of it, and other serious issues. I also wonder if it has spread to other countries.

    Yours, in the cause of God and Truth, from English Rose

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    Re: God's Will!

    God commanded Pharoah to let His people go. God decreed the hardening of Pharoah's heart. This could be seen as a demonstration of God's Sovereign will standing against His commanded will. If this is not "2 wills" how would you describe these two realities?

    Cliff (or "A Lover Augr")

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    Re: God's Will!

    Quote Originally Posted by A Loved Augr
    God commanded Pharoah to let His people go. God decreed the hardening of Pharoah's heart. This could be seen as a demonstration of God's Sovereign will standing against His commanded will. If this is not "2 wills" how would you describe these two realities?

    Cliff (or "A Lover Augr")
    Question: Do you think God always gets what He wants or is he confused and bound by two wills because man just won't be cooperative and go along with him the first time He asks?

    Or second question: Do you think God doesn't forsee man not cooperating with his requests so he has to conjur up a second will to be able to deal with the ramifications of man's choices and God is limited to what man decides?

    Is God sovereign?
    Does he declare the end from the begining?
    If he does why whould he need two wills?
    It's sort of limiting don't you think?
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: God's Will!

    English Rose: There is a teaching going around here in England that God has TWO wills - His permissive will and His decretive will.

    Actually, such teaching has been flourishing for many centuries among those who profess to be solid Calvinists--so it is hard to know where it originated. But I'm very glad to see that so many here recognize the severe false teaching present in the nothion that God has a permissive will! Such a doctrine leads to nothing but the depreciation of God's sovereignty, immutability, and redemptive purposes through the grace extended to the elect in Christ's person and work!

    God has but one unitary will and always gets what he wants. When men do not obey his commandments, that too is according to his sovereign will. There is a teaching on God's KINGDOM will in the synoptic gospels that leads some to deny his unitary sovereign will. However, such denials only demonstrate a serious ignorance of scripture as a whole. God's sovereign will issues in both the kingdoms of light and darkness. The fact that the synoptic gospels quote Christ as teaching that only the elect "do God's will" in no way depreciates the sovereign will of God. Jesus is simply saying that only the elect do the will of God as manifested in the kingdom of light, grace, or salvation. Even those who turn from this KINGDOM of GRACE will and purpose of God still obey God's will in the ultimate scope of his sovereignty--it is just that they fulfull the opposite side of his will as manifested in the kingdom of darkness! So the only 'two wills' of God taught in scripture are his contrasting wills of salvation and reprobation. There is no 'permissive will'; God does not merely permit anything but positively determines and desires all things that happen!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: God's Will!

    Most grateful for the brothers replies, and thank you Robert for the clear biblical response you have given, with which I absolutely agree.

    Is it permissible please that I could print out your reply and send it to another group called The Highway, as I asked them the same question, and there seems to be some dispute? I do not know if this is allowed.

    Thank you. Sincerely, English Rose

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    Re: God's Will!

    Rose- I believe that the "two wills" of God teaching extends at least back to Moses Amyraut ( 1596-1664 ) who was a pupil of John Cameron of Glasgow. Amyraldianism promoted the two wills. But as far as I can trace it, it came down to our time through the "Marrowmen" . These are people who hold to the teachings of the book: "THE MARROW OF MODERN DIVINITY" ( author disputed ). Thomas Boston added his footnotes to the book and reprinted it in 1726. Those who followed Boston and the Marrowmen in it's early stages believed a little different than Amyraldianism but generally believed: that God loves all men and that in the heart of God He has a will of absolute intention that all will be saved which is totally opposed to His other will which decreed only the elect will be saved. Their whole theology revolves around this theory. It was held by some of the Westminster divines and has been handed down through the years by those who held to it. It has evolved now into what we see in many Reformed churches and seminaries: common grace and the free offer. That's why you see it and hear it all over England Rose! The Sovereign Grace Baptists in the US generally don't teach it because their pastors aren't required to attend seminary to be gospel preachers so they aren't under it's influence. At least this is the case in the US ( mostly I've found this to be true in the part of the US called "the south"- the southeastern states ), but apparently has reached the Baptists in England. The best article I've read against the "Marrowmen" is from "THE REFORMED EVANGELICAL CHURCH" and is entitled: "The desire of God for the salvation of the reprobate: An ambiguous doctrine refuted and the Reformed Evengelical Church vindicated". It was available from The Reformed Presbyterian Church of Australia. Their website is: epc.org.au. Rose once you read this you'll know just why it exists yesterday and today. A great article! If you can't retrieve it from the EPCA then private message me with your address and I'll make you a copy of mine.........KK.

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    Re: God's Will!

    Thank you so much, KK, for that information which explains so very much now, and I will look up that website. Our ex-Pastor taught the two wills of God, and when he was challenged why he did not preach election, he said "it would put the people off!" He also taught a common grace, and he believes he is the only one preaching the truth in the whole area! I recently discovered that he was also attending an Amyraldian conference!
    It is just a year since we renounced our membership. He was tutored under the ministry of Dr.Martyn Lloyd-Jones in London.

    Although we are very lonely and have no fellowship with others, it is far better to be in this position than involved in false teaching.

    Thank you so much for your help. English Rose

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    Re: God's Will!

    ER: Is it permissible please that I could print out your reply and send it to another group called The Highway, as I asked them the same question, and there seems to be some dispute? I do not know if this is allowed.

    Yes! Thanks for raising the issue!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: God's Will!

    Thank you very much, Robert, I will do so. May I also quote the one from KK which was most helpful.

    Yours, in Christ, English Rose

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