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Thread: What you advertize is what people buy!

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    What you advertize is what people buy!

    When I was a young man; I was trained in the crafty art of selling insurance and one of the cardinal rules you learned was never to speak too much about your oppositions product, if possible not at all, and certainly not in a derogatory way. Why ? Well, because you would spend too much time advertising their product and not your own. Imagine if I wanted to sell BMW and I advertized Mercedes Benz instead, it would make no sense. Jesus spent more time speaking about the Kingdom of Heaven/God than He did speaking about his enemies product. (Infact such a study would be most interesting.) I am not going to mention the name of the heretical systems that seem to be mentioned more upon this forum, though not by all, to make my point. If I was writing a book about God, I would not spend most of my time talking about the devil, now would I ?

    Why should we differ in this regard ?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Katoikei.

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Quote Originally Posted by katoikei View Post
    When I was a young man; I was trained in the crafty art of selling insurance and one of the cardinal rules you learned was never to speak too much about your oppositions product, if possible not at all, and certainly not in a derogatory way. Why ? Well, because you would spend too much time advertising their product and not your own. Imagine if I wanted to sell BMW and I advertized Mercedes Benz instead, it would make no sense. Jesus spent more time speaking about the Kingdom of Heaven/God than He did speaking about his enemies product. (Infact such a study would be most interesting.) I am not going to mention the name of the heretical systems that seem to be mentioned more upon this forum, though not by all, to make my point. If I was writing a book about God, I would not spend most of my time talking about the devil, now would I ?

    Why should we differ in this regard ?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Katoikei.

    Kat, we are only a characature of Christ. Even though we are commanded to immitate Him, we tend to focus on one attribute. We carry one club in the bag per se. We can win a long driving contest, but are terrible when we have to chip and putt.. It goes both ways,many are only Love without zeal and boldness. TO be able to imitate his attributes more than we do would be a gracious gift if their were any.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Quote Originally Posted by katoikei View Post
    When I was a young man; I was trained in the crafty art of selling insurance and one of the cardinal rules you learned was never to speak too much about your oppositions product, if possible not at all, and certainly not in a derogatory way. Why ? Well, because you would spend too much time advertising their product and not your own. Imagine if I wanted to sell BMW and I advertized Mercedes Benz instead, it would make no sense. Jesus spent more time speaking about the Kingdom of Heaven/God than He did speaking about his enemies product. (Infact such a study would be most interesting.) I am not going to mention the name of the heretical systems that seem to be mentioned more upon this forum, though not by all, to make my point. If I was writing a book about God, I would not spend most of my time talking about the devil, now would I ?

    Why should we differ in this regard ?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Katoikei.
    Bad analogy - we're not interested in "selling" the Gospel. We learn about the Gospel through antithesis - and that includes talking about the false doctrine that exists.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    katoikei:

    You raise a very good and important point. I tend not to like the salesman analogy but I think it still applies. Some seem to only want to tell us all the things that God is not or why everyone else is wrong. There is a parallel in Eastern Orthodox theology where they teach what is known as apophatic theology where God can only be described in negative terms. He is not ignorant, He is not mortal, etc.

    I don't believe that a minister who did not refute error would be faithful to the Scriptures. We see Paul doing that. But if the error becomes central then he is not being faithful either. Heresy serves a purpose because it forces the truth to be further developed and understood but if people go looking for heresy everywhere it ceases to serve its purpose. The refutation of error should only be done after the truth is positively expressed and developed. Otherwise a rather one-sided theology develops. Especially if the one writing has already set himself in a system and is willing to defend that system at all costs.

    1 Timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but having a sick craving for controversies and word-battles, from which arise envy, strife, abusive speech, evil suspicions, 5 constant irritations between people of a corrupt mind and deprived of the truth, who think that religion is a means of gain. Withdraw from such people.

    We are told in this passage that doctrine accords with godliness. We can see the fruit of doctrine. A sick and distorted doctrine leads to deceit, a lack of desire to understand what others are actually saying but a disturbing craving for controversies and word-battles. These things result in strife and abusive speech and evil suspicions. People are constantly irritated with one another.

    When I first came to know the truth of the Sovereignty of God in salvation, I was absolutely floored and thought that it was my duty to teach everyone else about these truths and then became very irritated when others did not see the same truths I did. I was constantly interogating people who said they were Christians to see if they really were. I had a certain understanding of a specific truth but really didn't know much of anything. I thought I knew alot. It took me a few years to see the wonderful gold mine that Scriptures is filled with--all the positive truths that I could only start to discover in this lifetime. It was very humbling and it still is. True doctrine breeds humility, not arrogance.

    Heresy which denies some teachings of Scripture with the lie that it likes the others is boring. Heresy is always boring. Anyone can be an antinomian or a hyper-Calvinist or a Pelagian. Anyone can decide they like some teaching whether it be true or not and determine that it is the standard. Orthodoxy is much more exciting--swerving in between the various pits of error on every side.

    Heresy also always seems to breed doubt. It often starts out very proud but doubt creeps in. It usually starts by doubting those around, then close family members, then yourself. You can certainly see that in the RCC or Wesleyanism where there is no security in salvation. But you can also see it at the hyper-Calvinistic end. The NRC is so focused on election that they don't know who an elect person is or if they themselves are elect unless they have some miraculous experience. They doubt. And I see some doubting here as well. I think it is some of those who are taking the doctrines the most seriously who are really starting to doubt. Martin Luther was perhaps one of the most serious Roman Catholics who ever lived which led him to so much doubt. Anyone can sit around and point to others who either on the one hand supposedly don't hold to as pure of doctrines as they do and declare them unregenerate or don't lead as holy a life as they do and declare them unregenerate. But if people are serious and really look at themselves and hold themselves up to the bar of Scripture in the same way they are holding others they will naturally doubt.

    The antithesis is important but not more important than the thesis. When the antithesis is emphasized over and above the thesis then you have antithesisians, not Christians. Christians are known by their love.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Dear Darth, Wildboar and Lion,


    Your ideas are most stimulating, thank you.


    -------------------------------------------------

    The Gospel is the truth in capitals = TRUTH

    The minute that one assumes that the TRUTH can be arrived at by thesis or antithesis, one will be heading away from TRUTH into lies.

    Where the confusion often exists is that TRUTH is confused with truth. TRUTH is unchangeable, eternal and the standard by which we are all judged.

    It is a popular myth that story telling can replace the reading of Scripture and some schools of thought seem to believe that discussions about truth will result in the discovery of TRUTH. However, this is not possible.

    Certainly, one might be confronted with startling and fantastic ideas but never confronted with TRUTH, for TRUTH is older than time itself.

    As Lion, stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Kat, we are only a caricature of Christ.




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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Isaiah 55:1 ¶ Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
    2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
    3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
    4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
    5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
    6 ¶ Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
    7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
    8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
    11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
    12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.
    13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.


    John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.


    Luke 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
    10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Quote Originally Posted by worm View Post
    Isaiah 55:
    6 ¶ Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
    7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
    Thanks very much 'worm'. I am sitting here with my Jumbo guitar and jammin' some Phil Keaggy, and then as I was reading through the three passages you put up; I read these two verses. Now they have a history with me. After coming in out of the cold; in 1976, I had absolutely no music to listen to. I had ditched all my dark vibes on my neighbours bunk in the Navy, and praised the Lord on my guitar. (not the same one, I have on my knee, as I type...quite an art to do, you have to lean forward a bit.) So, eventually I got to go into town in '77 sometime to a place called, 'The Sunday School Bookcentre'...(it is gone now)..and as I looked over some books, I spied some prerecorded tapes...they were orange and the title was 'Prepare Ye The Way' Sing Scripture...so I decided to take a leap into it and see if it was safe. I was rather apprehensive about any form of music other than what I was doing on guitar to the Lord. Well, apart from the many songs that I still have in my heart and mind, this passage was a complete song.

    "Seek the Lord, while he maybe be found,
    Call upon Him while He is near,
    Let the wicked forsake his way,
    And the unrighteousman his thoughts,
    And let him return to the Lord, and to our GOD,
    And He will abundantly pardon,
    He will abundantly pardon you."

    (I can sing it, just struggling with the chords... )

    There was also a piece on the title, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord make His path straight...." as well as the end of Jude.

    Praise the Lord!

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Okay, I think this is the best I can do for now.......The capitals in brackets are barre chords.

    Seek the (e) Lord while He may be (A) found
    Call (e) upon Him, while He is (B) near
    Let the wicked (A) forsake his way....
    And the un (e) righteous (B) man his (A) thoughts...
    And (e) let him return unto the (B) Lord, and to our GOD
    And (A) He will abundantly pardon
    (e) He will abundantly pardon...... (B) you (repeat, if you like)

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    Re: What you advertize is what people buy!

    Now unto (g) Him who is able to © keep
    (g) Able (em) to keep you from (d) falling
    (g) And present you faultless, before the © presence of His glory
    With ex (g) cee (em) ding (d) joy
    To the (g) only wise (d) GOD our © Sav (am) iour
    Be (g) Glory and (d) Maje © sty
    Do (am) min and (d) Power
    Both (em) now and forever
    A (g) A (d) amen (g)

    (This was one I particularly enjoy singing, I am not to sure about my chords and the © kept giving we a copyright, I guess it is better than a ®…..)

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