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Thread: Christmas celebrating

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    Exclamation Christmas celebrating

    Darth Gill said we should start a thread on celebration of Christmas. Here goes!

    http://www.orlutheran.com/html/christma.html

    The above link is to Our Redeemer Lutheran Church LCMS web page with articles on Christmas.

    Glory be to God on High and on earth peace, good will toward men.
    Arrogance cannot be avoided or true hope be present unless the judgment of condemnation is feared in every work. Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, May 1518

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Not one more second of thought Rose!!

    We celebrate it tree and all. Nativity scene on porch. We love the holiday. We give to those in need and if it causes you to stumble, dont worry about it. For me, I give it no holy pronounce ment other than a focus on Christ.

    For me, I could care less about the pagans. What a better way to steal the thunder from the pagans than worshipping Christ on their 'special' day.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Well, the days have pagan names, yet I still use those names. Much is from pagan origin, but why would I let them have any signifigance in my life, or steal my fun? Christmas is great..I say Merry Christmas....and I guess those of you that think you are doing some sort of "good work", something pleasing to god by abstainingfrom it or abhoring it....go for it.....

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    The day has no more meaning to me than Friday. In other words, it's a day off of work for me to spend with my family and enjoy one another's company. Christmas trees, candy canes, and christmas presents are all fun too - what's not to like about that?

    I however do not consider the day any more important in celebrating the birth or death of Christ. Every day is Christmas in that regard! There are NO HOLY DAYS for me as EVERY DAY is the Lord's.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    The day has no more meaning to me than Friday. In other words, it's a day off of work for me to spend with my family and enjoy one another's company. Christmas trees, candy canes, and christmas presents are all fun too - what's not to like about that?

    I however do not consider the day any more important in celebrating the birth or death of Christ. Every day is Christmas in that regard! There are NO HOLY DAYS for me as EVERY DAY is the Lord's.
    I agree I see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas. I also enjoy the trees, cookies, candy canes, presents, dinners with family, giving gifts, etc. And Im used to looking more into Christ's birth around Christmas time, and the Gospel message but it is true that, that is our concern everyday and should be our focus everyday not just on Christmas.

    Hey I also like pretending, and talking about Santa Claus.. least I did when I was a little kid.. and seeing all those Christmas songs. Though I know its not true.. and just make believe. But I bet some here wouldn't do that either.. its not religious its pagan. But really does it matter as long as one knows the truth and doesnt' deceive.

    Anyways.. I'm eating a Christmas cookie right now! hmm so good!

    Mary
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    This is a letter we sent to my wife's family a few years ago. I may have posted it on this forum last year, I don't remember. Anyways, it's my same response to the thread topic:

    We are fairly confident there must be some confusion as to why we have chosen not to celebrate Christmas. We wanted to write a letter to some of you so that we might clear up any misunderstandings concerning our reasoning, and this seems a perfect time to do so! Please understand that this is a personal choice that we have made based off of our beliefs and the Bible.

    We VERY MUCH believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. We VERY MUCH believe that He was born from the virgin Mary. We VERY MUCH believe in the full biblical account of Jesus Christ's birth. Our decision to not participate in Xmas is in NO WAY based off of a non-belief in Christ or His birth.

    The following are some points that detail some of the reasons we do not celebrate Christmas:

    1) We are not told to in the Bible -- We believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. There is no command either from an apostle or from God in the Bible to celebrate the birth of Christ as a holiday. There are accounts of celebrations at the actual time of His birth, but no instructions to continue this as a yearly tradition.

    2) We are told to remember Christ and His work during the Lord's supper -- Christ is recorded in Luke chapter 22 as telling us to observe the Lord's supper in "remembrance of Him". Paul echos this command in 1st Corinthians 11. For this reason, We celebrate Christ's death and resurrection monthly during the Lord's supper at our church assembly. We do this in place of other religious holidays as well (including Easter), because this is the only celebration that is actually conveyed in Scripture.

    3) Christmas has pagan origins -- The Roman Catholic church incorporated Christmas as a religious holiday around the 4th century. Prior to being "absorbed" by the Catholic church, Christmas was a celebration of pagan gods. The original celebrations of Christmas (Saturnalia, Yule, Winter Solstice) were not a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.

    4) The real date of the Lord Jesus' birth is unknown. The Bible does not give a specific day of His birth; therefore Dec. 25th is speculation.

    5) Santa Claus has no association with Jesus Christ. In fact, in some ways, Santa takes away from the true position of Jesus Christ (Santa judges, bringing rewards for the good; much like Christ is prophesied to come to judge, and reward or punish mankind).

    6) The retail world relies on Christmas -- What is supposed to be a celebration of the Lord Jesus Christ has turned into a holiday by which the retail world is kept afloat. It is the most economically significant holiday of the year. "Money talks" while the supposed true reason for the celebration is pushed aside.

    7) Hypocritical celebrations -- Some people would have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus at any time of the year other than Christmas. They act the part during this time but then pay no attention to the Lord, His commandments, nor His Word (the Bible) during the rest of the year.

    We hope that by sharing these reasons, we can avoid any misconceptions as to why we do not participate with the family in celebrating Christmas (though we do try to participate in the family oriented functions, and love doing so!). We believe that Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary; lived a sinless, perfect life; was crucified on the cross; and was raised again in three days to deliver believers from their sins. We believe that He currently sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven awaiting His second return to the earth. We worship and love Him very much, but simply do not participate in Christmas for the reasons listed above.

    Let us know if there are any questions concerning this or if something is not clear. We love you all very much and would only like you to understand. We'll leave it to the parents' discretion on whether to show this to your children, as we are sure they have questioned our actions as well.
    Gal 6:14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Personally I think whether a believer celebrates Christmas or not is really up to their choice. I dont see one believer being more spiritual than another if they dont celebrate it, or another believer being unbiblical if they do, or doing something wrong. Its just the same with ones music choices, or choice of movies- whether one only watches G movies or whatever rating. I dont see things like this as commands by God to do or not do, and if you don't then you are sinning or in disobedience. I see it as a personal choice, that each person has a solid point on. And I don't think we should judge or look down or up to any one of these people.

    There's other issues of course that do come into play sometimes with music choices or movie choices or whether one celebrates a holiday or not, and those issues are commands that God tells us not to do like have no other gods before me, no idols, no coarse language, keep a pure mind, abstain from sexual immorality, do not murder. I mean their are commands that we are to follow where sometimes these other practices could lead to or encourage and that is the discretion of the person, and maybe another if they see a choice is leading to a sin. But celebrating Christmas or not.. whether one plays the make believe game of Santa Claus, or Easter Bunny or tooth fairy.. I dont think that in and of itself is a sin.. or bad or not being biblical.

    Just my two cents worth on all this...

    Mary
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by melted View Post
    This is a letter we sent to my wife's family a few years ago. I may have posted it on this forum last year, I don't remember. Anyways, it's my same response to the thread topic:
    Thank you for that, Melted, with which we absolutely agree, and it could indeed be our letter which we similarly wrote. How differently we see things to many others. The believers we know here do not celebrate it either, for all the reasons you have given in your letter. It costs to be separate!

    English Rose

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by melted View Post
    This is a letter we sent to my wife's family a few years ago. I may have posted it on this forum last year, I don't remember. Anyways, it's my same response to the thread topic:
    I am calling some people I know in texas to set up a nativity scene on your front lawn and carol in front of your house nightly.

    I hope the easter bunny visits you in the spring also
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    The day has no more meaning to me than Friday. In other words, it's a day off of work for me to spend with my family and enjoy one another's company. Christmas trees, candy canes, and christmas presents are all fun too - what's not to like about that?

    I however do not consider the day any more important in celebrating the birth or death of Christ. Every day is Christmas in that regard! There are NO HOLY DAYS for me as EVERY DAY is the Lord's.
    Since I totally agree with this, and also appreciate Kyle's letter to his family, the scritpure that comes to mind is Rom. 14 (esp. verses 5 & 6)

    Me, Lori, and my children have a tree and spend family time over the holidays....but we understand that what the world/RC does, has nothing to do with Christ at any time of the year. I am a man also that reguards every day alike.......all aspects of Jesus should be considered every day as we worship Him and fellowship with He and the rest of His body. For those who wish to set up one day above another, the scripture says you are free to do so as long as it is "unto the Lord" and you will not have me breathing down your neck to have the same element of faith I do.

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Since I totally agree with this, and also appreciate Kyle's letter to his family, the scritpure that comes to mind is Rom. 14 (esp. verses 5 & 6)

    Me, Lori, and my children have a tree and spend family time over the holidays....but we understand that what the world/RC does, has nothing to do with Christ at any time of the year. I am a man also that reguards every day alike.......all aspects of Jesus should be considered every day as we worship Him and fellowship with He and the rest of His body. For those who wish to set up one day above another, the scripture says you are free to do so as long as it is "unto the Lord" and you will not have me breathing down your neck to have the same element of faith I do.
    Amen Bryan. Amen. That about says it all.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Plus, how can you beat Italian Christmas cookies.

    Brandan, go up to the hill and find some of these. Wilson Ave must have tons of great Italian cookies!!! Ameghettis must make 'em
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    If the 'letter' of the law applies to no Christmas celebration, that means no listening to Handel's Messiah either! Don't forget that part.

    I do believe that we should avoid participating in the Santa Claus legend altogether and teach our children to do the same. That part of it can only be pagan and I don't see how it can be redeemed for Christ. I know about the legend of St. Nick but it is spiritism which the Bible condemns.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Didn't we go over this last Christmas?

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    Didn't we go over this last Christmas?
    haha yeah I bet its been discussed every December.. lets go and search just 'cause I curious. Also I guess I get the point that some make about Santa Claus, Easter bunny, Tooth fairy, etc. but I know as a child that it was all fun and games to me, living in a make believe. Not a pagan belief to me, I really didn't know it was or that it was spiritualism or anything other than having fun as a kid. Guess its the same thing with Halloween how its all pagan yet I just had fun as a kid dressing up and getting candy. So I guess I kinda still see it from a childs perspective, that its just kids having fun they dont know any of the historical background to those things.. etc. But I dont know I'll have to think on such things.. for now its still fun as a teacher reading santa claus books or books on reinder.. all that make believe fiction.

    Okay so anyways here's the past threads on Christmas:
    http://www.predestinarian.net/showth...ight=Christmas

    http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=1841

    Well there wasn't one in Dec 2003 that I can find... nor 2002, nor 2001. Kinda cool to look back though at some past articles.. sure things repeat themselves on the forum here. So how many threads have you had on Gods predestining reprobates? hehe I bet a lot.

    Anyways... nice discussions. I'm going to read the past threads too. Take care and uh.. should I say Merry Christmas or not?!

    Mary
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Again, many things are pagan, or are of pagan origin. This doesn't mean much to me. I mean, the tree is only pagan to those who make it pagan.
    I see Bob's point, but also can agree with Mary. I don't feel betrayed by my parents for encouraging Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, or tooth fairy. I liked Santa Clause. Brandan's beef is because he always felt that he was bad and Santa watched him, and he felt guilty. Well, yeah, I can certainly see where this would be a prob....but, I was never that good of a kid I guess..haha I never worried about me being too bad to not get presents.
    I think it is up to the individual, of course. Unfortunately, most (notice I said most) t of the people I have seen not celebrate christmas turn out to be work mongers who think they are doing something noble........and honestly that makes me want to hurl...

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Hey, great post MCoving on celebrating Christmas. I agree with everything you said, in this connection, wholeheartedly.

    Actually, I have been a Santa Claus in the largest Shopping Mall here in Christchurch, New Zealand for some 6 years. I go all out at Christmas and so does my wife and three children. We have a Christmas tree, talk of Santa Claus, have a beer, wine, whiskey or spirit (I am not a big drinker but I will have an occasional drink), have Christmas presents gift wrapped and have special Christmas food.

    Well done to everyone on this forum - there is no conflict to believing and doing all this and being a High Grace Predestinarian (HGP)!

    We all know that Christ - and Christ alone! - is the meaning of Christmas and that Salvation for all of God's Elect is certainly found in Him.

    "...for He shall save His people from their sins..." Matthew 1:21

    Blessings in Christ's Saving Name!

    Craig from "Down Under"

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    Didn't we go over this last Christmas?
    Great Scott!

    No doubt last Christmas and probably all the Christmases until Jesus comes back to put an end to all this foolishness.

    One certainly has the freedom to celebrate or not. We have come to appreciate the extra times of Word and Sacrament during this time. We also enjoy sending our grandchildren gift cards as another token of our affection for them. Each of them profess Jesus as Saviour and realize it is in recognition of His Advent is the main emphasis. May God evermore be praised in invading their little lives with this faith. We pray God bless them and keep them in the True faith. We praise God for keeping His promises to tabernacle with us and take our sin guilt upon Himself.

    Wrestling something out of the hands of the pagans can be quite enjoyable. I do that with beer too! Although when I speak to those who give themselves over to the commercial side of it he or she seem quite miserable. They miss it entirely which is such a shame.

    God's peace.

    Mmmmm cookies!
    Arrogance cannot be avoided or true hope be present unless the judgment of condemnation is feared in every work. Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, May 1518

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    Hi unhingedsquare,

    Thank you for your excellent thread on celebrating Christmas and the link to Our Redeemer Lutheran Church with the articles on the history, tradition and celebration of Christmas.

    Quite frankly, these are the best articles on Christmas that I have seen - balanced, sane and professional.

    I appreciated the article on Santa Claus. I have been a "Professional" Santa for six years and this article advocates what I believe on Santa to the letter. In short, the article promotes a traditional understanding of Santa that has been part of our culture as a traditional custom. It is this understanding of Santa that I promote and enjoy! I reject utterly the "Commercial/Coca Cola Company" view of Santa that presents him as a drunken, foul mouthed, blundering buffoon! That idea is wrong and lowers the traditional custom to an unworthy and irresponsible practise.

    Thank you, too, to MCoving for sharing her practical experiences of Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. I agree with you that all these things - properly understood - are "things indifferent" and a true Christian is free to practise them or not. The same goes for drinking alcohol in moderation, watching movies, videos and TV - all of these things are not commanded or prohibited and the believer is to use sanctified good sense and judgment in making appropriate decisions.

    I can, however, appreciate people who make different decisions in these matters to me. Neither those who do or those who don't are spiritually better than the other. For me and my house - we are free to celebrate and enjoy!

    Again, great posts by unhinged square and MCoving - I agree with you completely! All the responsible traditional customs can be participated in by true believers and High Grace predestinarians (HGP) without compromise and contradiction.

    Blessings in Christ's Saving Name!

    Craig from "Down Under"

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    Re: Christmas celebrating

    A friend just sent me this. I thought it pertained to this discussion somewhat.

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