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Thread: 1 John- Confess Sins

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
    14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
    On a lighter note, I do work for the IRS as a tax examiner

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by rlhuckle View Post
    Repentance is a gift that the Holy Spirit effectively works in the life of each of the elect. The elect one WILL ALWAYS continually practice John's teaching as a normal part of the Christian life.

    To imply that John means "you better do this or you won't get that" is merely another manifestation of legalistic humanism.

    Again this is not about judicial standing but positional/relational. If we do not confess, we will be chastised with His hand. IT is that simple. THe candle stick will be removed.

    And I also wanted to answer MAr;s concern about confessing as a whole. Read REvelation and Christs words to the churches. They were to repent as a whole community. Not that they would be damned, but suffer the temperal displeasure of God.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by rlhuckle View Post
    Those to whom God has granted repentance do. Don't you see the pride in saying "I'd rather align myself with the publican" instead of thanking God for giving you a repentant heart--actually all things?

    1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
    Not at all Roger. In fact thats how I read all the parables. Who do I align myself with.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Again this is not about judicial standing but positional/relational. If we do not confess, we will be chastised with His hand. IT is that simple. THe candle stick will be removed.
    Of course it is; and chastisement is merely another means that God uses to preserve his own. The elect WILL (are insured of) practice(ing) this.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Not at all Roger. In fact thats how I read all the parables. Who do I align myself with.
    What if the 'heart' lies?

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by rlhuckle View Post
    On a lighter note, I do work for the IRS as a tax examiner
    Dont say it too loud. Christ is a friend of publicans and tax collectors!!!!
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Dont say it too loud. Christ is a friend of publicans and tax collectors!!!!
    SHHHHH!....it's April 18: Do you know where your taxes are?

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by rlhuckle View Post
    Of course it is; and chastisement is merely another means that God uses to preserve his own. The elect WILL (are insured of) practice(ing) this.



    What if the 'heart' lies?
    The heart does lie, but I dont know what this means as far as picturing yourself in the parables.

    The problem appears to be with the word "Have".. IE we have to do this. I dont see the problem at all. Scripture says we must forgive, we must confess, we must do a lot of things. Not to earm merit, only as a loving response to what He has blessed us with. I know what unconfessed sin does roger. Chastisement is not a smile. The rod and heavy hand kills until you do confess, at least for me.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    The heart does lie, but I dont know what this means as far as picturing yourself in the parables.

    The problem appears to be with the word "Have".. IE we have to do this. I dont see the problem at all. Scripture says we must forgive, we must confess, we must do a lot of things. Not to earm merit, only as a loving response to what He has blessed us with. I know what unconfessed sin does roger. Chastisement is not a smile. The rod and heavy hand kills until you do confess, at least for me.
    No problem with "have," I just maintained that believers "will" fulfill these things as the Spirit leads. It is normal for them to do so because the Holy Spirit leads them to (and groans with words that cannot be uttered when they don't). However, this does not need to be made ritualistic in a human sense. Our humanity always wants to take the credit for what God does for us. Repentance is a gift.

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    The heart does lie, but I dont know what this means as far as picturing yourself in the parables.

    The problem appears to be with the word "Have".. IE we have to do this. I dont see the problem at all. Scripture says we must forgive, we must confess, we must do a lot of things. Not to earm merit, only as a loving response to what He has blessed us with. I know what unconfessed sin does roger. Chastisement is not a smile. The rod and heavy hand kills until you do confess, at least for me.
    This is ridiculous! We have to do nothing! Nada! Look at your signature! "BUT, the fruit of the spirit is..."

    Here's another bit of truth you may have missed: "I will write the law on their hearts". Either we produce good fruit and all it entails because of God regenerating us, or we crank out "we have to do this" (your words above). If it is even slightly infinitesimally or one iota about anything I do or can do it is no longer grace. This is a false gospel, Joe!

    I can see why you had problems in the assurance thread, your hope seems to lie in your ability to do!
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    This is ridiculous! We have to do nothing! Nada! Look at your signature! "BUT, the fruit of the spirit is..."

    Here's another bit of truth you may have missed: "I will write the law on their hearts". Either we produce good fruit and all it entails because of God regenerating us, or we crank out "we have to do this" (your words above). If it is even slightly infinitesimally or one iota about anything I do or can do it is no longer grace. This is a false gospel, Joe!

    I can see why you had problems in the assurance thread, your hope seems to lie in your ability to do!

    Did you see the part when i said "Not to merit anything" or did you cut that our with your Jehu knife also? It is our human, spirit led response Gregg. We are not some shell of a person with no knowledge of what we do. Christ says we must forgive, we must confess, we must. IT IS NOT OUR OWN ABILITY, but we are most certainly aware.

    Let me ask you this Gregg, When you have had to forgive someone as you have been forgiven. Do you say "I forgive you," or do you say "Christ forgives you through me becasue if I use the letter 'i' that is my own works for merit. This is all I am saying.

    Again look at the scriptures please.

    14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Why did not Christ say: 14For if Iforgive men when they sin against you, since you are not aware of doing anything, My heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if I do not forgive men their sins,without you knowing it your Father will still forgive your sins.

    I have reached a certain conclusion. You actually believe Christs works of forgivenenss, healing, miracles, feeding the 5,000, etc etc etc iss all imputed to you. This way you dont even have to do any of these things either!!!!!



    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.


    You still have not dealt with the scriptures gregg. You speak a lot of psychibabble, but have not given me your interpretation of what to do with these 2 scriptures. Anything is better than ignoring them.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Did you see the part when i said "Not to merit anything" or did you cut that our with your Jehu knife also? It is our human, spirit led response Gregg. We are not some shell of a person with no knowledge of what we do. Christ says we must forgive, we must confess, we must. IT IS NOT OUR OWN ABILITY, but we are most certainly aware.

    Let me ask you this Gregg, When you have had to forgive someone as you have been forgiven. Do you say "I forgive you," or do you say "Christ forgives you through me becasue if I use the letter 'i' that is my own works for merit. This is all I am saying.
    Joe, I believe that if you're elect, you'll confess your sins. I think it's about communicating with God. As a mature believer you do things not because of "you have to's" but because they're a part of who you are. When Paul was addressing the Romans in Chapter 6 he said, "why would you continue to sin for grace to abound?" and then went on to state their position in Christ and their relation to sin because many of them lacked understanding and were immature in the faith. His question was rhetorical. Of course you would do a lot of things as a mature believer, by your very nature, that you wouldn't do as someone who is unregenerate.
    Again look at the scriptures please.

    14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Why did not Christ say: 14For if Iforgive men when they sin against you, since you are not aware of doing anything, My heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if I do not forgive men their sins,without you knowing it your Father will still forgive your sins.
    Who do you think Christ was talking to here? Or, why was He saying what He was saying? Do you think as a mature believer that someone needs instruction about how-to's, why-to's and where-to's? Your hanging on to this confession thing makes one ask: where does it stop? How much do you have to confess? What if you forget to confess something? What if you forget to forgive someone? If you forget, then does God not forgive you?
    I have reached a certain conclusion. You actually believe Christs works of forgivenenss, healing, miracles, feeding the 5,000, etc etc etc iss all imputed to you. This way you dont even have to do any of these things either!!!!!
    You have reached a wrong conclusion.
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.


    You still have not dealt with the scriptures gregg. You speak a lot of psychibabble, but have not given me your interpretation of what to do with these 2 scriptures. Anything is better than ignoring them.
    I have dealt with what you've laid forth for scripture, yet you still have not dealt with the "have-to's" that you're placing on others as well as on yourself. Are you tired yet, Joe? Your view is one of immaturity in my opinion. I say this not to offend you, but it looks as though you don't understand what has been done for us and to us in Christ.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    Joe, I believe that if you're elect, you'll confess your sins. I think it's about communicating with God. As a mature believer you do things not because of "you have to's" but because they're a part of who you are. When Paul was addressing the Romans in Chapter 6 he said, "why would you continue to sin for grace to abound?" and then went on to state their position in Christ and their relation to sin because many of them lacked understanding and were immature in the faith. His question was rhetorical. Of course you would do a lot of things as a mature believer, by your very nature, that you wouldn't do as someone who is unregenerate.Who do you think Christ was talking to here? Or, why was He saying what He was saying? Do you think as a mature believer that someone needs instruction about how-to's, why-to's and where-to's? Your hanging on to this confession thing makes one ask: where does it stop? How much do you have to confess? What if you forget to confess something? What if you forget to forgive someone? If you forget, then does God not forgive you?You have reached a wrong conclusion.I have dealt with what you've laid forth for scripture, yet you still have not dealt with the "have-to's" that you're placing on others as well as on yourself. Are you tired yet, Joe? Your view is one of immaturity in my opinion. I say this not to offend you, but it looks as though you don't understand what has been done for us and to us in Christ.

    John was speaking to professed believers, they need to be reminded of the same as everyone. I see a difference of having to do somethign because we are commanded vs having to do something with the mindset of earning something in returning. I believe mature as well as infant believers need to hear the same words spoken. The holy Spirit will bring to rememberance what you have to confess, who you have to forgive, and what one must repent of. Gregg, I know what Christ has done for us. And in response I do whatever I can in service for Him. It is that simple. No accounting system. No balance of how much. He did all and I do all out of love and service. And when I forget to confess, or forget to forgive, willingly or unwillingly, I pray the Spirit leads me to do both.

    I am stuck on this confession thing becasue you have aligned yourself with the likes of Bob George who has turned the grace of God into a license to do whatever one pleases. This stance takes Christs eternal priestly role and makes it non effectual. Is He not continuing to make intercession for His sheep?

    The amount of confession or repentance or forgiveness is not about salvation. But if one is in the constant state of doing none of these, they are not one of His. The focus of the 1 John Scripture is the second part. His faithfulness. The command for us to confess is a minutia compared to His forgivenenss for what we deserve and have done and failed to do in word thought and deed.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post

    The amount of confession or repentance or forgiveness is not about salvation. But if one is in the constant state of doing none of these, they are not one of His. The focus of the 1 John Scripture is the second part. His faithfulness. The command for us to confess is a minutia compared to His forgivenenss for what we deserve and have done and failed to do in word thought and deed.
    Okay so let me ask you some questions from your doctrinal position on confession. First you say that if one is in the constant state of doing none of these, they are not one of His. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? Seriously how? What if one is not confessing with the church, is not taking of the Lords Supper and has not been baptized? Would you say they are not a believer? If so.. you have now put a condition upon salvation.

    Here's another question. What if one confesses some things but not everything.. then you have another person who confesses a whole bunch of things. Do you believe the one who confesses a lot is more spiritual and mature than the other? If so.. what makes confession more valuable than studying Gods Word? Or prayer? Or whatever else?

    Now I agree with Greg confessing ones sins.. just will happen if one is a believer. But it isn't out of a COMMAND by God, or out of any have to's that the local church puts on you (which is why I started this thread- because local churches make you DO so much) but its out of Love for God.. it may not be every day.. heck it might not even be for a few months. But sooner or later the Lord will grant you repentance.. its out of HIS lovingkindess.. and you'll be humbled and ask forgiveness for all your sins and your rebellion. It is a heart and relational issue between Gods child and Himself.. not a have to, or a command that one MUST do.

    So its not A HAVE TO or a COMMANDMENT but its a part of who we are and our relationship with the Lord. I dont believe at all that its a command that the Church needs to be scarying people into doing because if they dont God won't forgive them. THAT IS WRONG! Sure people can confess openly or with a body of believers but they dont have to. They can confess at home on their own time.. or in there own way... No where in the Bible does it even say how many times one is to confess? Or when one is to confess? Or any of those requirements.

    So just in conclusion... I think Joe that you put too much emphasis on confessions and on commanding people to do things. Its extra baggage that the church has added to the Scriptures.. its like God has set up this expectation and what He desires.. then the Church adds to it, like an extra boundary.. to say that one must confess every Sabbath day or do this or that.. or they wont be forgiven. They always put that last part in.. as if its a tactic to scare people into doing. They put doubt in peoples minds and that is what I didn't like about this whole church confession thing. And thats why I started this thread.

    Mary
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    I am stuck on this confession thing becasue you have aligned yourself with the likes of Bob George who has turned the grace of God into a license to do whatever one pleases. This stance takes Christs eternal priestly role and makes it non effectual. Is He not continuing to make intercession for His sheep?
    Joe, this has been posted before but it answers this statement perfectly.
    Are You Preaching the Gospel?


    by Martyn Lloyd-Jones

    It is true that where sin abounded grace has much more abounded; well then, "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound yet further?" The true preaching of the gospel of salvation by grace alone always leads to the possibility of this charge being brought against it. There is no better test as to whether a man is really preaching the New Testament gospel than this, that some people might misunderstand it and mis-interpret it that it really amounts to this: that because you are saved by grace alone, it does not really matter at all WHAT you do, you can go on sinning all you like because it will redound all the more to the glory of grace. That is a very good test of gospel preaching. If my preaching of the gospel does not expose it to that misunderstanding, then it is not the gospel. Let me show you what I mean. If a man preaches justification by works, no one would ever raise the question. If he says, "If you want to go to heaven, you must stop committing sins, live a life filled with good works, and keep this up regularly and constantly until the end, then you will be a Christian and go to heaven when you die." Obviously, no one will accuse a man who preached like this of saying, "Let us continue in sin that grace may abound." But every preacher who preached the gospel has been accused of this! They have all been accused of "antinomianism." I would say to all preachers: IF YOUR PREACHING OF SALVATION HAS NOT BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD IN THAT WAY, THEN YOU HAD BETTER EXAMINE YOUR SERMONS AGAIN, and you had better make sure that you really ARE preaching the salvation that is proclaimed in the New Testament to the ungodly, the sinner, to those who are dead in trespasses and sins, to those who are the enemies of God. There is a kind of dangerous element about the true presentation of the doctrine of salvation.
    Your view of grace seems somewhat limiting to me.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    Quote Originally Posted by MCoving View Post
    Okay so let me ask you some questions from your doctrinal position on confession. First you say that if one is in the constant state of doing none of these, they are not one of His. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? Seriously how?
    From the word of God MAry. In fact John states this in the same epistle. If they were one of His they would have continued with Him. And confession is a marl of a believer


    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    What if one is not confessing with the church, is not taking of the Lords Supper and has not been baptized? Would you say they are not a believer? If so.. you have now put a condition upon salvation.

    No condition. If they are a believer then they remain in a state of rebellion against the Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    Here's another question. What if one confesses some things but not everything.. then you have another person who confesses a whole bunch of things. Do you believe the one who confesses a lot is more spiritual and mature than the other? If so.. what makes confession more valuable than studying Gods Word? Or prayer? Or whatever else?
    No I do nto think that Mary. But if a person knowingly does not confess a sin he is aware of then he again is in rebellion. WHy do you pray Mary? Isnt it futile since Christ prayed for you anyway? Prayer and confession the supper baptism are all responses to God's grace.

    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    Now I agree with Greg confessing ones sins.. just will happen if one is a believer. But it isn't out of a COMMAND by God
    Scripture please Mary. Command is a hard word for the flesh. Believe me I know. Do you think the 2 tablets are suggestions or commands? Do you think Christ's words are suggestions or authorative commands?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    because local churches make you DO so much)
    What is it they make you do Mary? Please tell me what is so hard? We are commanded to serve and labor for our Lord. If a local body exhorts people to do this they are not adding anything to the Gospel. Only Faithfully preaching the whole council of God and not a myopic view of the writ.

    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    I dont believe at all that its a command that the Church needs to be scarying people into doing because if they dont God won't forgive them. THAT IS WRONG!
    I agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    Sure people can confess openly or with a body of believers but they dont have to. They can confess at home on their own time.. or in there own way... No where in the Bible does it even say how many times one is to confess? Or when one is to confess? Or any of those requirements.
    I agree. But an arguement from silence is not good when dealing with God.

    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    So just in conclusion... I think Joe that you put too much emphasis on confessions and on commanding people to do things. Its extra baggage that the church has added to the Scriptures.. its like God has set up this expectation and what He desires.. then the Church adds to it, like an extra boundary.. to say that one must confess every Sabbath day or do this or that.. or they wont be forgiven. They always put that last part in.. as if its a tactic to scare people into doing. They put doubt in peoples minds and that is what I didn't like about this whole church confession thing. And thats why I started this thread.

    Mary
    We are part of a covenant community Mary. You can try to escape it but God will not let you.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 John- Confess Sins

    This has become fruitless I'm closing this thread.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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