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Thread: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    I would say that there would be those who wanted a cheeseburger and that's what the thought of whenever you talked about pizza because they had no idea of what pizza actually is. It's like if an alien from another world landed here and asked you what salt tastes like, there is no way he will ever get it no matter what words you use, if his tongue has no way of being able to taste salt he is not equiped to ever be a salt taster.
    It is good that we can have a laugh on this forum!!

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Charles: I was stating that predestination stood at the center of your theology as the title to the forum suggests.

    Only because of its utter neglect by populist teachers who claim the gospel as their 'center.' Predestination is certainly not the ONLY truth of the gospel, however, there is no true gospel of Christ without it!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Regardless of whether or not they came to eat the pizza or had any desire to eat the pizza, the pizza would still be the pizza. Eating or not eating would not limit the pizza in any way.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Regardless of whether or not they came to eat the pizza or had any desire to eat the pizza, the pizza would still be the pizza. Eating or not eating would not limit the pizza in any way.
    You are very funny!

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Regardless of whether or not they came to eat the pizza or had any desire to eat the pizza, the pizza would still be the pizza. Eating or not eating would not limit the pizza in any way.
    It would not change the pizza, however, if their bodies wouldn't appropriate the pizza because they were made in such a way in that pizza did nothing for them then they would still be without the beneficial properties that the pizza can avail.

    BTW, I love pizza.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    It would not change the pizza, however, if their bodies wouldn't appropriate the pizza because they were maid in such a way in that pizza did nothing for them then they would still be without the beneficial properties that the pizza can avail.

    BTW, I love pizza.
    Yummy!!

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    Talking Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    I like pizza too!
    Col 2:9, (NASB), For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Absolution is a wonderful gift of God given to every believer. Because things should be done decently and in good order the pastor is often the one to pronounce the absolution but Christians should do it to one another as well. I'm guessing that you are making reference to the Roman Catholic understanding of this verse in which forgiveness and binding has at times been apart from God's Word and tied to the anti-Gospel doctrine of penance. But I don't see how viewing Christ as the center of all theology would lead me there unless you thought Christ taught such a thing.
    Chuck, I was joking with you. Yet, there is a gray area amongst Lutherans with this verse.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by John711 View Post
    I'f I were to make pizza for my entire block and not everyone ate there will be those that wish they would have
    This is a terrible understanding of election though. One that has casued much pain amongst believers. There is not one person in the world who wants the pizza( i am thinking you are referring to wanting Christ) that has been shut out of heaven. The true teaching is those that do not want pizza, have no reason to gripe that they did not receive a slice.

    38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Joe:

    What is the grey area. I don't understand?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Joe:

    What is the grey area. I don't understand?
    Chuck I like this new game you play of having no understanding.!!!!

    The ministry of the Keys and confeeson within the Lutheran church is basically roman catholicism on weight watchers.

    The Ministry of the Keys and Confession

    As the head of the family should teach them in the simplest way to those in his household.
    THE KEYS

    First: What is the use of the Keys?
    The use of the Keys is that special power and right which Christ gave to his church on earth, to forgive the sins of penitent sinners but to refuse forgiveness to the impenitent as long as they do not repent.
    Where is this written?
    The holy Evangelist John writes in chapter 20, "Jesus breathed on his disciples and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
    THE PUBLIC USE OF THE KEYS

    Second: How does a Christian congregation use the Keys?
    A Christian congregation with its called servant of Christ uses the Keys in accordance with Christ's command by forgiving those who repent of their sin and are willing to amend, and by excluding from the congregation those who are plainly impenitent that they may repent. I believe that, when this is done, it is as valid and certain in heaven also, as if Christ, our dear Lord, dealt with us himself.
    Where is this written?
    Jesus says in Matthew, chapter 1 8, "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
    CONFESSION

    First: What is Confession?
    Confession has two parts. The one is that we confess our sins; the other, that we receive absolution or forgiveness from the pastor* as from God himself, not doubting but firmly believing that our sins are thus forgiven before God in heaven.
    Second: What sins should we confess?
    Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even those we are not aware of, as we do in the Lord's Prayer. But before the pastor we should confess only those sins which we know and feel in our hearts.
    Third: How can we recognize these sins?
    Consider your place in life according to the Ten Commandments. Are you a father, mother, son, daughter, employer or employee? Have you been disobedient, unfaithful, or lazy? Have you hurt anyone by word or deed? Have you been dishonest, careless, wasteful, or done other wrong?
    Fourth: How will the pastor assure a penitent sinner of forgiveness?
    He will say, "By the authority of Christ, I forgive you your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."
    *The German term is best translated as "confessor," that is, the person who hears the confession.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Chuck I like this new game you play of having no understanding.!!!!

    The ministry of the Keys and confession within the Lutheran church is basically roman catholicism on weight watchers.
    Joe, I agree with your above statement! They so much want to be like their mother Rome.

    My next door neighbor who moved away a few months ago, is a retired LCMS pastor. Actually he was forced out (defrocked). I know why but I do not want to get into the details it would make the audience of this forum puke!

    We over the last 6 years have had many a discussion pertaining to all areas of doctrine.

    They even have a worship day devoted to Mary. He told me flat out that he had the power to forgive sins.

    He cannot even forgive his own sins let alone the sins of others. He rejects the true gospel in favor of salvation through the works of the clergy, sacraments and the church.

    He now attends an evangelical methodist church and also teaches there.

    Birds of a feather (false gospel teachers) flock together.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    Chuck I like this new game you play of having no understanding.!!!!

    The ministry of the Keys and confeeson within the Lutheran church is basically roman catholicism on weight watchers.
    It's not any game. I'm trying to understand the person's position before I argue with them. I don't see how just yelling "Die heretic scum!" does anybody any good, nor do I see why anybody would want to participate in a forum just to yell such things unless it somehow makes them feel better about themselves.

    Confession and absolution in the Lutheran church is almost exactly the opposite of what it is in the Roman Catholic church. In the Roman Catholic Church, a person confesses his sins to a priest and the priest gives them a list of things to do to be forgiven. If the person has not confessed all of his sins those sins which he forgot or failed to mention are still bound upon him and he remains unforgiven. If he fails to accomplish what the priest has told him to do then he also remains unforgiven.

    In the Lutheran church confession and absolution is used as a wonderful way to bring the Gospel to people on a personal level.

    John 20:21-23 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

    Lutherans simply do what God told them to do. When a person comes to a minister and tells them some sin that they have committed and that they are sorry for committing that sin the minister tells them that they are forgiven. The person doesn't have to worry that they forgot to confess all of their sins or carry out some sort of meaningless task.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highly Favored
    would not change the pizza, however, if their bodies wouldn't appropriate the pizza because they were made in such a way in that pizza did nothing for them then they would still be without the beneficial properties that the pizza can avail.
    But it would not be due to any limit in the pizza. The pizza would still be there. (It's difficult for me to restrain myself from taking this pizza analogy even further).
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    It's not any game. I'm trying to understand the person's position before I argue with them. I don't see how just yelling "Die heretic scum!" does anybody any good, nor do I see why anybody would want to participate in a forum just to yell such things unless it somehow makes them feel better about themselves.
    1 Corinthians 13 comes to mind.

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    It's not any game. I'm trying to understand the person's position before I argue with them. I don't see how just yelling "Die heretic scum!" does anybody any good, nor do I see why anybody would want to participate in a forum just to yell such things unless it somehow makes them feel better about themselves.

    Confession and absolution in the Lutheran church is almost exactly the opposite of what it is in the Roman Catholic church. In the Roman Catholic Church, a person confesses his sins to a priest and the priest gives them a list of things to do to be forgiven. If the person has not confessed all of his sins those sins which he forgot or failed to mention are still bound upon him and he remains unforgiven. If he fails to accomplish what the priest has told him to do then he also remains unforgiven.

    In the Lutheran church confession and absolution is used as a wonderful way to bring the Gospel to people on a personal level.

    John 20:21-23 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

    Lutherans simply do what God told them to do. When a person comes to a minister and tells them some sin that they have committed and that they are sorry for committing that sin the minister tells them that they are forgiven. The person doesn't have to worry that they forgot to confess all of their sins or carry out some sort of meaningless task.
    This is the spin doctor's at work though Chuck. Lutherans are famous for responding with statements as above. "We are only doing what God told us to do" "We take scripture at face value" etc etc etc. I am not speaking on omitted sins nor penance, but Chuck, let's call a spade a spade here, The Lutheran system ties forgiveness of sins to confession, absolution, baptism and the supper. There is no denying this. Chuck, I know that misrepresentations of the Lutheran position bother you, in fact you are now 'famous' for saying that some here have a mischaracterization or charicature of the position, now perhaps that may be true in some instances, but you must also be responsible enough to agree with what I am saying here and admit the differrence is only on penance, and not the power of the keys. I could read the ccc( cat of cath church) and the Lutheran position on the keys and could not tell the difference.

    As far as the 'game' i mentioned, we all know you understand what people say here without asking for a concise definition!!! Ill give you permission to argue with what you think they may be saying!!!
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    As far as the 'game' i mentioned, we all know you understand what people say here without asking for a concise definition!!! Ill give you permission to argue with what you think they may be saying!!!
    Wow Joe, two posts in two days in which I agree with you 100% is this a sign of the impending apocalypse or what?

    Seriously though, Charles I agree with Joe on what he has said here I think you're playing dumb here also so please spare us the rhetoric about being a sinner or that you're just trying to understand.

    You yourself once embraced a 5 point position so to now act like you don't understand what's being said is a complete lie.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Joe:

    In passages I have already quoted the Bible speaks of baptism for the remission of sins and the Lord's Supper for the remission of sins. The Gospel is also tied to the forgiveness of sins and absolution is one way in which the Gospel is proclaimed. Since Reformed folk tie forgiveness of sins to the preaching of the Gospel does this mean that they are just papists on weight watchers as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    As far as the 'game' i mentioned, we all know you understand what people say here without asking for a concise definition!!! Ill give you permission to argue with what you think they may be saying!!!
    I'm not very interested in what I think people may be saying. I want to know what they actually are. Why is this such a bad thing?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Lutherans simply do what God told them to do. When a person comes to a minister and tells them some sin that they have committed and that they are sorry for committing that sin the minister tells them that they are forgiven.

    And what qualifies one to be a 'minister' of this sort? Who do I need to go to if I WANT TO BE SURE my sins are absolved of God confirmed by someone who most certainly speaks for Him??
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: 1 Timothy 4:10 What does it mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    Wow Joe, two posts in two days in which I agree with you 100% is this a sign of the impending apocalypse or what?

    Seriously though, Charles I agree with Joe on what he has said here I think you're playing dumb here also so please spare us the rhetoric about being a sinner or that you're just trying to understand.

    You yourself once embraced a 5 point position so to now act like you don't understand what's being said is a complete lie.
    Gregggg:

    Could you please explain? I do not understand what you mean?

    Just bustin your chops Chuck!!!!

    As an aside chuck, I seriously would like to search the archives here and see where you were and where you have ended up on doctrine. If anything it would be worth a 'chuck-le"
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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