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Thread: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    OK, now tell us what you think of Obama/Biden?
    I actually like the ticket as a whole. As BK puts it, Biden is the real deal. Obama has some policies i like and a few I dislike, but I am not a one issue voter. I know the abortion issue is a big one for many, including BK here, but its rank hypocrisy to be pro life and a war hawk. Babies have no more right than adults when it comes to death as far as I can see it. But then again without glasses my eyesight is not very good
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    I'm actually starting to waffle a little bit. If the race looks close in Michigan come November I might vote for McCain. I have my inner purist warring with my inner fighter for what I believe to be the greatest civil rights issue of our time. I spend a good deal of time on my own blog and elsewhere railing against pragmatism but if you have a woman such as Palin who is strong and who is staunchly pro-life and has lived out what she preaches even when over 90% of those who are in her situation--it's quite a story. I'm not really into stories but a lot of people are. It completely removes the idea that some man is trying to tell women what to do with their bodies off the table if you have a woman in the position. Maybe this country has sunk down low enough that there are no men who are willing to take a strong stand on abortion anymore that are VP material and may we need a Deborah. But I'm still undecided and it probably doesn't matter--it's unlikely that it's all going to come down to my vote or the votes of my wife and I so I should stop thinking I'm so important.

    Joe:

    Come on. Give me a break. The DNC was a pep rally and that's what the RNC is going to be too. Don't try to pretend that Obama adressed real issues and real particulars. I've seen both their economic plans and neither one really adds up and neither is going to pass. My cousin (a hardcore Obama supporter) sent me an article Obama wrote (or someone wrote for him) in which he complained about Bush's approach to the economy and how we don't need more of the same--so what does Obama offer us? More of the same--economic stimulus checks etc. Stop giving out economic stimulus checks we should be giving out economic stimulus checks. Neither of the major candidates has a clue about economic theory. The more they talk the more they start sounding the same. Obama might pretend to be critical of the war in Iraq but he supports pre-emptive strikes just like McCain does. The Republicans and the Democrats both like their wars, they just don't like the wars that the other party started.

    The big exceptions are healthcare and abortion. Universal healthcare would bankrupt our country and put us on waiting lists to see a doctor. But I'd even be willing to put up with that. It's the abortion issue that really seals the deal for me. As Christians we are called not to vote in our own self-interests but the self-interests of our neighbor. Our neighbor includes the countless number of babies who are aborted each year--more babies are killed each year by abortion than have been killed in any war. I'm no fan of Rick Warren but at the Saddleback conference he asked the right question. He asked both candidates at what point a baby has rights. McCain said at the time of conception (which is certainly inconsistent with his position on stem-cell research). But Obama said the answer to that question is above his pay grade. If the answer is above his pay grade then he does not even know who should have constitutional rights and has no business applying for a job that calls a person to uphold everyone's constitutional rights. He really has no business being a senator either. By his own voting record he has shown that even when a baby is no longer in the womb of his mother he doesn't believe the baby has rights. He has not given any indication as to what time the baby would have rights. There are professors at prominent universities that don't believe a baby has rights until he hits the age of five, so this is a real issue.

    Obama's position on the belief that a mother determines when her baby has rights is equivalent to the belief that slave owners have the right to determine if their slaves are property or people. This is the great civil rights issue of our time.

    I do have to say that from what I heard, Fred Thompson did give the best speech yesterday--the commentators kept talking over him so I didn't get to hear it all. He did show in a simple way how taxing the rich affects the poorest and got a nice jab in at Obama for saying that determining when a baby has rights is above his pay grade. I wasn't a fan of much of the pro-war rhetoric I heard yesterday but the different rhetoric used at the DNC doesn't add up to less war.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    I'm actually starting to waffle a little bit. If the race looks close in Michigan come November I might vote for McCain. I have my inner purist warring with my inner fighter for what I believe to be the greatest civil rights issue of our time.
    AMEN! That's EXACTLY what the abortion issue is about. Vote McCain/Palin - we must stop Barrack Hussein Obama and the Communist Party!
    This is my signature.

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by joe
    I actually like the ticket as a whole. As BK puts it, Biden is the real deal. Obama has some policies i like and a few I dislike, but I am not a one issue voter. I know the abortion issue is a big one for many, including BK here, but its rank hypocrisy to be pro life and a war hawk. Babies have no more right than adults when it comes to death as far as I can see it. But then again without glasses my eyesight is not very good
    But do they have less rights than adults? If more are dying from abortion than war, then isn't abortion the bigger concern? The Democrats are war hawks too. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Both parties love THEIR OWN wars. They just don't like the wars of the other party. Bush ran on a platform of non-intervention in opposition to Clinton's wars. Bush did not follow through.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Chuck and Joe,

    The "war" against unborn babies is not the same as the wars that Jesus said would always be with us (talking about battles between nations). I'm surprised that you do not see the difference. King David fought in earthly battles, but I'm quite sure he would never have condoned pulling unborn babies out of mother's uteruses and Kind David had a heart like unto the Lord (Jesus).
    Dead faith is only possible if you are not ALIVE in Christ!

    Do as you are bid; feed the sheep, feed the lambs; the goats will never believe the gospel,
    though they may believe your doctrine.
    William Huntington

    Augustus Toplady (1740-1778) was John Wesley's chief opponent

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    I watched Governor Palin's speech last night. I thought it was a very good speech. Did you know that her TelePrompTer was not working right? I bet you could not tell. She is that good. She cleared that hurtle with room to spare. Obama's campaign said that her speech had no substance. What speech did they watch last night? They were probably watching the History Channel.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkRjBFneUAU
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    But do they have less rights than adults? If more are dying from abortion than war, then isn't abortion the bigger concern? The Democrats are war hawks too. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Both parties love THEIR OWN wars. They just don't like the wars of the other party. Bush ran on a platform of non-intervention in opposition to Clinton's wars. Bush did not follow through.
    I am more anti war than pro-life. But like I said, I am not a one issue voter. I again just do not believe in legislating morality Chuck. I see no way of picking and choosing without becomeing northites and rushdoonites. Plus I am against more of the republican platform then the dems. You better get out their and make your vote count Chuck. Michigan is a swing state!!!!
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Toplady View Post
    Chuck and Joe,

    The "war" against unborn babies is not the same as the wars that Jesus said would always be with us (talking about battles between nations). I'm surprised that you do not see the difference. King David fought in earthly battles, but I'm quite sure he would never have condoned pulling unborn babies out of mother's uteruses and Kind David had a heart like unto the Lord (Jesus).
    Susan:

    The republicans are against abortion, yet they do nothing to take care of the children born in these situatons, and may end up killing them with capital punishment anyway later in life.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Susan:

    The republicans are against abortion, yet they do nothing to take care of the children born in these situatons
    Note to nanny-staters like yourself. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB TO CARE FOR CHILDREN. PARENTS WHO DON'T CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN SHOULD BE PUNISHED UNDER THE LAW!

    and may end up killing them with capital punishment anyway later in life.
    Those that commit heinous crimes deserve to die. Being born in poverty or even with bad parents doesn't guarantee one will be a criminal.
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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    The republicans are against abortion, yet they do nothing to take care of the children born in these situatons, and may end up killing them with capital punishment anyway later in life.
    You've Got to be kidding! That argument is not even rational.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Joe:

    War is not always wrong. There are just wars and there are unjust wars. The Bible says that the government does not bear the sword in vain and the sword is not used for anything but killing people. Obama is not anti-war. Ron Paul and Kucinich didn't make it through and they were the only two strongly anti-war candidates. Obama has left a pre-emptive strike on Iraq on the table and the timetable for withdrawal from Iraq continually changes in his speeches. I certainly don't consider the unjust war in Iraq to be a small matter but there is no moral equivalence between a war in Iraq which is conducted against murderers and the slaughter of the innocent (speaking from the perspective of civil authorities) in abortion. The baby has done nothing in the eyes of the law that deems it worthy of death by civil authorities.

    About 1.37 million babies are killed each year in the US by abortion. Last year 4882 insurgents were killed in Iraq and 904 American troops so you have a total of 1386. So you basically believe that it's more important to save the life of a criminal and let 988 babies die even though Obama will not save the life of the criminal? At what point do you believe a baby has rights? How do you legislate any laws without legislating morality? You don't have to be a follower of Rushdoony to realize that. That's what laws are about. Name one law that does not legislate morality. What are the issues that you believe the Democrats are stronger on that justify killing 1.37 million American citizens each year?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Joe, I have to also say that your last reply was....well it left me stunned, to say the least.

    Do you remember the (Egyptian) midwives at the time of Moses' birth, that refused to murder the babies as they were supposed to, were blessed by the Lord? They made the excuse that Hebrew babies were just too lively to be able to kill them, and the Lord blessed their stretching of the truth, that breaks another biggie commandment also (lying, i.e. bearing false witness) because God knew their hearts were for saving these babies.....where is your heart

    Yes, we live in a wicked world that seems to be becoming more and more wicked exponentially these days but so therefore it is okay to murder babies, just pretend they are a glob of nonviable tissue...because, oh geez, they would all grow up unwanted and murderers.....????? I have to go throw up.
    Dead faith is only possible if you are not ALIVE in Christ!

    Do as you are bid; feed the sheep, feed the lambs; the goats will never believe the gospel,
    though they may believe your doctrine.
    William Huntington

    Augustus Toplady (1740-1778) was John Wesley's chief opponent

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    AMEN! That's EXACTLY what the abortion issue is about. Vote McCain/Palin - we must stop Barrack Hussein Obama and the Communist Party!
    Yeah I agree because say one doesn't vote all those non votes could technically be votes in the end. Does that makes sense? Say no one votes for McCain and Obama wins, those people who didn't vote what if they had voted? If they had voted for McCain its possible he would win and Obama not. I'd rather see McCain win than Obama, so Im voting for him because he stands for some of what I want in a president. And Obama doesn't... Im so against pro choice, and if I can stop Obama from having the president seat I'll do anything I can within reason of course.
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Note to nanny-staters like yourself. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB TO CARE FOR CHILDREN. PARENTS WHO DON'T CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN SHOULD BE PUNISHED UNDER THE LAW!
    Spoken like a true Repub. Force them to have the child, but do nothing to help them. It is the nations job to help, community BK. The repubs speak of individualizing this responsibility, yet nothing happens.

    Let's punish them for aborting, then let's punish them for not having the means to care for them.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    [quote=lionovjudah;59345]
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Note to nanny-staters like yourself. IT'S NOT THE GOVERNMENTS JOB TO CARE FOR CHILDREN. PARENTS WHO DON'T CARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN SHOULD BE PUNISHED UNDER THE LAW!{quote]

    Spoken like a true Repub. Force them to have the child, but do nothing to help them. It is the nations job to help, community BK. The repubs speak of individualizing this responsibility, yet nothing happens.

    Let's punish them for aborting, then let's punish them for not having the means to care for them.
    No.

    It is the govt's job to enforce the basic laws of right and wrong, like murder and theft. That is what Jesus said (or was it the apostle Paul?)....the govts are in place to rule over the ungodly, to keep a sense of right and wrong, law and order.

    It is not the govt's job to raise us from "cradle to grave".

    The govt isn't supposed to be the answer for all of our problems, and Jesus said the elect are not subject to the worldly kings and govts, because we serve One Who is higher, so for the elect it would be like idolatry. But we are to pray for our worldly rulers, and we do still involve ourselves in worldly tasks to try to keep the highest order and justice possible in this world, and through whom the Lord allows to be elected (through our participation...we are the salt of the world, remember? There still is a reason for our being here and being involved, or the Lord would have already removed us )
    Dead faith is only possible if you are not ALIVE in Christ!

    Do as you are bid; feed the sheep, feed the lambs; the goats will never believe the gospel,
    though they may believe your doctrine.
    William Huntington

    Augustus Toplady (1740-1778) was John Wesley's chief opponent

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Joe:

    War is not always wrong. There are just wars and there are unjust wars. The Bible says that the government does not bear the sword in vain and the sword is not used for anything but killing people. Obama is not anti-war. Ron Paul and Kucinich didn't make it through and they were the only two strongly anti-war candidates. Obama has left a pre-emptive strike on Iraq on the table and the timetable for withdrawal from Iraq continually changes in his speeches. I certainly don't consider the unjust war in Iraq to be a small matter but there is no moral equivalence between a war in Iraq which is conducted against murderers and the slaughter of the innocent (speaking from the perspective of civil authorities) in abortion. The baby has done nothing in the eyes of the law that deems it worthy of death by civil authorities.

    About 1.37 million babies are killed each year in the US by abortion. Last year 4882 insurgents were killed in Iraq and 904 American troops so you have a total of 1386. So you basically believe that it's more important to save the life of a criminal and let 988 babies die even though Obama will not save the life of the criminal? At what point do you believe a baby has rights? How do you legislate any laws without legislating morality? You don't have to be a follower of Rushdoony to realize that. That's what laws are about. Name one law that does not legislate morality. What are the issues that you believe the Democrats are stronger on that justify killing 1.37 million American citizens each year?
    Chuck, I believe this number is very inflated. Let me be perfectly clear, I am not pro abortion. I do not enjoy the thought at all. I am against legislating it. The real fix for the abortion issue is not legislation, the real solution is the Gospel.

    As far as Legislating morality, the scriptures do not speak of it as a responsibility of Government. This is the churches job is it not? Is it the govt's job to legislate scripture to bring change to people? I do not want a government punishing thoughts of my heart Chuck.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    You've Got to be kidding! That argument is not even rational.
    I actually find it quite true.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    strangely enough, I find myself identifying more with chuck on this. Ideally, I would like to vote for someone who would bring true reform to the republican party. I think the neo-con wing of the republican party has their ideas rooted in zionism, a marriage of the government and the apostasy of churches. I saw the "straight talk express" this past weekend stop in st. louis and theyve got all the zionists in one big van. Palin is a pentacostal and seems to have non-biblical eschatology views. Ill also mention that Romney and Huckabee were on tour with them as well and will likely be a part of his cabinet. So thats 2 Baptists, Pentacostal, and a mormon. Strange brew....

    I think there is still something to be said for the classical conservative movement of Ron Paul, He did run a counter-convention alongside the Republican convention which turned out very well with a lot of good speakers. The "revolution" movement is one that actually talks about important issues with substance. By conscience I may still vote for a 3rd party or write in Ron Paul because even though it wont "count", it would be a step towards really reforming the republican party. The neo-cons are already echoing the things that Ron Paul was talking about months ago. Limited government, small business, american industry... These are things none of the other candidates were talking about early in the race.

    But on the other hand, Obama is a marxist and as far as laws go, our constitution would be eroded much more quickly. For the sake of pragmatism I might vote McCain/Palin.

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    Angry Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Spoken like a true Repub. Force them to have the child, but do nothing to help them.
    Nobody forced them to get pregnant. But once they're pregnant, they do not have the right to USURP the rights of another individual by MURDERING the child! Nobody is forcing them to have children - just it's the government's responsibility to protect the rights of all people - including those that are the most defenseless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    It is the nations job to help, community BK.
    No it's not. It is the government's job to punish evil doers - to bear the sword - and to protect the rights of its citizens. Murdering children is not a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    The repubs speak of individualizing this responsibility, yet nothing happens.
    With half the country with your disposition standing in their way, how can they? People like you make me sick. You're a pitiful and sorry excuse for a human being let alone an American or a follower of Christ! I loathe those that argue like you. Your support of the genocide of millions of defenseless people is a crime that you will one day be held to account unless of course you are one of Christ's people that He has shed His blood for...

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    Let's punish them for aborting,
    I believe abortion is a crime worthy of death. Those that murder anyone including unborn babies deserve the most severe form of justice available to the government - the sword. Evildoers must be punished!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe
    then let's punish them for not having the means to care for them.
    So a baby is punishment huh? That's sick and disgusting.
    2 Thess 3:10, (NASB), For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
    I'd go further to say if anyone will not care for their children, then they must be punished under the law as well.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: McCain Sends Us a WONDERFUL SIGN - PICKS PALIN!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Chuck, I believe this number is very inflated. Let me be perfectly clear, I am not pro abortion. I do not enjoy the thought at all. I am against legislating it. The real fix for the abortion issue is not legislation, the real solution is the Gospel.

    As far as Legislating morality, the scriptures do not speak of it as a responsibility of Government. This is the churches job is it not? Is it the govt's job to legislate scripture to bring change to people? I do not want a government punishing thoughts of my heart Chuck.

    During this time, the Lord in His wisdom and for His purposes that we only partially understand, has placed rulers of this world....they are of this world, but they are put in place by God....the one and true God, Creator, Savior, Lord.

    I see the words "Legislating morality" as code for support of anarchy, which I personally believe is not of God, but will be the state of this world at the time of the Lord's returning.

    I, for one, do not feel at all compelled by the Holy Spirit to be in support of anarchy ( and thereby against "legislating morality") even though that (anarchy) is the trend as we head closer and closer to the time of the Lord's return.
    Dead faith is only possible if you are not ALIVE in Christ!

    Do as you are bid; feed the sheep, feed the lambs; the goats will never believe the gospel,
    though they may believe your doctrine.
    William Huntington

    Augustus Toplady (1740-1778) was John Wesley's chief opponent

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