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Thread: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

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    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    Thomas Jefferson rejected the Athanasian Creed along with most of the bible. His Declaration of Independence sets forth a god who creates all men (never defined) equal and who endows the men he creates with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (no proof; self-evident).
    Jefferson's comment on all men created equal in my opinion means that all men are equal UNDER THE LAW. That's the way I read it.
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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Jefferson's comment on all men created equal in my opinion means that all men are equal UNDER THE LAW. That's the way I read it.
    I just have to say that action speaks louder than words brother, if that is what Jefferson meant, why didnt he give his slaves the same equality?
    The very bloody civil war (a very religious war historically) was fought over this, other issues as well.
    I also have made it clear that even if I do find a grain of truth in the mouth of one who proclaims a false gospel, I am not to think the raven/wolf/whatever has a different nature just because God used it to feed me. (all that I can read about Jefferson's life who ripped all miracles out of scripture and never repented of his deism is that he fits the bill I am describing)
    The Devil knows the words of the letter Paul wrote to the Romans better than any human being I know........if he reads them eloquently and it just happens that the Spirit births another elect saint, am I to think maybe Satan is starting to understand the words of the scriptures?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    I just have to say that action speaks louder than words brother, if that is what Jefferson meant, why didnt he give his slaves the same equality?
    Slaves were seen as property - not people. I'm not justifying slavery, but it was the mindset of the period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan
    The very bloody civil war (a very religious war historically) was fought over this, other issues as well.
    Many people fought for a variety of reasons. Stonewall Jackson (a calvinist) fought for states rights and hoped to free the slaves after the war (in the confederate states of america).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan
    I also have made it clear that even if I do find a grain of truth in the mouth of one who proclaims a false gospel, I am not to think the raven/wolf/whatever has a different nature just because God used it to feed me. (all that I can read about Jefferson's life who ripped all miracles out of scripture and never repented of his deism is that he fits the bill I am describing)
    It was politically expedient and NECESSARY for protestants to unify with deists on common ground against their common enemy. I would have then fought for the freedom of all people - including the slaves. I could not hold hands with Jefferson in a ecclesiological sense - by no means - but we would have worked together to form a union of states where liberty is esteemed! The declaration of independence is one of the greatest documents ever written in my opinion.
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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post

    The Declaration of Independence proclaims a false gospel. It has no force of law having been superceded by the U.S. Constitution. Unborn babies have no God given rights apart from the personal work of Jesus Christ.
    The examples of Cain and the Noahic Covenant contradict this view.

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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    God did not confer on Cain a right to life when He promised vengeance on Cain's slayer. Similarly, in the Noahic Covenant, God confered no right to life on anyone when He established capital punishment for the shedder of man's blood.

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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    God did not confer on Cain a right to life when He promised vengeance on Cain's slayer. Similarly, in the Noahic Covenant, God confered no right to life on anyone when He established capital punishment for the shedder of man's blood.
    No, He reserved the right to TAKE human life for Himself-thereby prohibiting ALL others from doing so. This logically implies a right to life for those whom God has given life to.

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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    God's promise to punish those who unlawfully take life does not create a right to life for men (and unborn babies) who deserve nothing but death. 18th century Humanists and Deists invented God-endowed rights in order to deny God's almighty power and justice. The Declaration of Independence gives undeserving men God-endowed rights they do not possess including the right to overthrow higher powers that are ordained of God.

    The instrument of God for the lawful taking of life is government (Rom. 13). The lawful reason for taking life is "to execute wrath on him that doeth evil" (Rom. 13:4). When government operates outside its mandate to punish evil-doers (e.g., unjust wars, abortion, killing men who have committed no crime, etc.), it is subject to the wrath of God.

    Government operates outside its mandate to punish evil-doers when it allows its agents (e.g., doctors, pharmacists, etc.) to kill unborn babies. Rather than using the false arguments of the Humanists and the Deists, pro-life Christians should use the word of God against those who promote evil uses of government.

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    Re: Human Rights Implications of a Brain Develoment Time of Ensoulment

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    God's promise to punish those who unlawfully take life does not create a right to life for men (and unborn babies) who deserve nothing but death.
    I don't desire to argue about this since this is not what I said-nor what the passages teach.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    18th century Humanists and Deists invented God-endowed rights in order to deny God's almighty power and justice. The Declaration of Independence gives undeserving men God-endowed rights they do not possess including the right to overthrow higher powers that are ordained of God.
    The Declaration of Independence does no such thing; it is a political document written for political reasons. In and of itself, it has no power to grant rights to anybody or anything unless one is willing to accept them and fight for them under the terms written. Politics is not theology.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    The instrument of God for the lawful taking of life is government (Rom. 13). The lawful reason for taking life is "to execute wrath on him that doeth evil" (Rom. 13:4). When government operates outside its mandate to punish evil-doers (e.g., unjust wars, abortion, killing men who have committed no crime, etc.), it is subject to the wrath of God.
    The MORAL (God's standard) reason for taking life is "to execute wrath on him that doeth evil." Political laws are that which men agree upon to govern themselves.

    AS I said in my post; God has RESERVED the taking of human life for Himself (and/or His instruments) according to the moral standards He set forth. This means that all other life-taking activities are prohibited--as Cain's example illustrates--and this fact was made explicit in the Mosaic Law.

    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
    Government operates outside its mandate to punish evil-doers when it allows its agents (e.g., doctors, pharmacists, etc.) to kill unborn babies. Rather than using the false arguments of the Humanists and the Deists, pro-life Christians should use the word of God against those who promote evil uses of government.
    Sorry, I have not made a theological argument from the Declaration of Independence--although I HAVE occasionally made a POLITICAL argument from the same.

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