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Thread: Tares and Darnel

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    Tares and Darnel

    24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”



    I recently read this parable again and am confused by a couple things. For starters, let's start with the truth that the field is a visible Church. (Please do not digress into ekklesia of called out ones, or there is no visible church) If so, lets just say the visible gathering of people worshiping on a Sunday in one location. The field is wrongly concluded to be the world anyway by many, so I wont allow that for this discussion.

    1) Why does Christ command us to not search out the tares and pull them up?

    2) How would this affect the Wheat if the tares/darnel are rooted up?

    First my initial thoughts are we cannot always tell who are wheat and who are darnel. We have the wrong perception that the reprobate are always God hating atheists when scripture really never paints them in such a picture. They actually mimic the elect in many ways. But in this account, they are noticeable to the servants and the owner, which I would say is the pastor and elders of the field, or the pastors and Christ for the sake of discussion. But they are commanded not to pull them up and rid the body of their presence.


    Any thoughts?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    The quick answer would be that the wheat and tares grow together period. It is for God to separate the wheat and the tares, and not us.

    However the bible also tells us that, "Can any two walk together unless they be agreed?".

    It is important for the church to hold to the truth. The bible tells us that He will lead the elect to all truth. We will never know for sure who all the elect are, but the fruit of the Spirit will be apparent for us to see.

    Our doctrine should be sound enough, that most will be offended by our doctrine anyway. If any tares are in that kind of a church set up, God will deal with the tares Himself, when it is the appointed time.

    Hope this answers your question.

    Kevin .

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

    I recently read this parable again and am confused by a couple things. For starters, let's start with the truth that the field is a visible Church. (Please do not digress into ekklesia of called out ones, or there is no visible church) If so, lets just say the visible gathering of people worshiping on a Sunday in one location. The field is wrongly concluded to be the world anyway by many, so I wont allow that for this discussion.
    Matt. 13:38, so are you confused then about Jesus "own" definition about the field, he wouldn't have been lying or misunderstanding his own parable would he?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Matt. 13:38, so are you confused then about Jesus "own" definition about the field, he wouldn't have been lying or misunderstanding his own parable would he?
    It is the world of worshiping people in the Church of Christ. Not some abstract entity with no boundaries.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    1. Since no-one (except God) knows who is actually reprobate, on what basis COULD one (speaking of an elect one who might actually have any ecclesiastical authority in an institutional church today-- which is indeed a rarity in my opinion) pull any up (kick them out)?

    We CAN suppose who is regenerate by the doctrines believed and promoted, however the point of the parable is that Christ regenerates each elect one in HIS timing--so it's hands off apart from proclaiming the truth.

    Now, since most churches no longer proclaim the true gospel and God is now calling His own OUT of the institutional churches, I believe the winnowing has begun anyway--so the point is probably moot.

    2. See number 1.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    It is the world of worshiping people in the Church of Christ. Not some abstract entity with no boundaries.
    The world is not abstract and it has boundaries, you have just added to Jesus' own words something that is not in this particular parable with Jesus' explanation to his disciples.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    1) Why does Christ command us to not search out the tares and pull them up?
    The World is a big place, it would probably take forever.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    It is the world of worshiping people in the Church of Christ. Not some abstract entity with no boundaries.
    Actually, the explanation of the parable given doesn't come to that conclusion.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Any thoughts?
    Wheat and tares appear the same, until the wheat matures.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    The world is not abstract and it has boundaries, you have just added to Jesus' own words something that is not in this particular parable with Jesus' explanation to his disciples.
    I am using GIlls definition:

    That which is represented by "the field", in which the good seed is sown, is not only the land of Judea, where Christ preached in person, but the whole world, into which the apostles were afterwards sent; or the church of Christ, in the several parts of the world:This must represent a gathering of people together for it to make sense.

    V 39:

    He that is designed by the enemy, who sowed the tares in the field among the wheat, is no other than the devil; the enemy of Christ, of mankind in general, of God's elect in particular, and the accuser of the brethren; and his getting of hypocrites and heretics into churches, is no small proof of his implacable enmity to Christ and his interest; and shows what an adversary he is to the peace, comfort, and fruitfulness of the churches of Christ.

    Now please, this is why I said not to question my premise because this will get sidetracked. The boundaries of the world is between four walls, or some locality where both could grow together without being noticed. not the distance between me in New York and you in Idaho. If that was the case, the parable would make absolutely no sense. Please stay on track, or dont offer anything ok.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    Wheat and tares appear the same, until the wheat matures.
    I agree, my question is when the crop reaches maturity, we are commanded not to pull up the tares. This is what confuses me. Why, once recognized are they allowed to remain? How would pulling them up once recognized harm the wheat?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    Actually, the explanation of the parable given doesn't come to that conclusion.
    See above Scott, the 'world' is restricted to mean the church of Christ in all areas where both the wheat and tares worship God together. This is the only way to make sense of the parable.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    I believe it means the world, everywhere in the world... take for example Oregon there are some believers here but mostly all around you see tares, tares growing amongst the wheat. The "field" could be all of Oregon, we work each day in an environment there could be wheat there and could be tares there. It doesn't necessarily have to be a church, confined to some boundary. From Gods perspective the world is small, He pry sees it as a field.. His sheep scattered amongst the wolves... we are not all grouped together in one location but scattered throughout the world, tares growing amongst the good wheat.

    And I think Wb your forgetting that parable starts off with "The Kingdom of Heaven is like" its talking about heaven which is not limited, its not a building called a church. Its telling us kingdom of heaven like a man who sows... and Jesus then goes on to describe the field being the world. Why would Kingdom of heaven only sow in a church building? God, the man, sows everywhere!! In the poor streets of Calcutta, out in the forests in small tribes where there are no church buildings, the field is the world and God sows in the world.. plants seeds and watches them grow.. He waters and we grow... He takes care of His wheat, but amongst his wheat in the field tares grow. And until Christ comes and plucks the tares out we will continue to live with reprobrates and very very evil people who have no regard for God.But one day they will all be gone and there will be a new earth, and we will live here in this field with no tares!!! AMEN!
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    I am using GIlls definition:

    That which is represented by "the field", in which the good seed is sown, is not only the land of Judea, where Christ preached in person, but the whole world, into which the apostles were afterwards sent; or the church of Christ, in the several parts of the world:This must represent a gathering of people together for it to make sense.

    V 39:

    He that is designed by the enemy, who sowed the tares in the field among the wheat, is no other than the devil; the enemy of Christ, of mankind in general, of God's elect in particular, and the accuser of the brethren; and his getting of hypocrites and heretics into churches, is no small proof of his implacable enmity to Christ and his interest; and shows what an adversary he is to the peace, comfort, and fruitfulness of the churches of Christ.

    Now please, this is why I said not to question my premise because this will get sidetracked. The boundaries of the world is between four walls, or some locality where both could grow together without being noticed. not the distance between me in New York and you in Idaho. If that was the case, the parable would make absolutely no sense. Please stay on track, or dont offer anything ok.
    John is on track, will you refuse his testimony too? 1 Jn. 2:15-17. This fits with Jesus words which you want to change either way.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    See above Scott, the 'world' is restricted to mean the church of Christ in all areas where both the wheat and tares worship God together. This is the only way to make sense of the parable.

    I'm cool with assertions as much as the next guy but can you demonstrate WHY this is the only way to make sense of the parable?

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    I agree, my question is when the crop reaches maturity, we are commanded not to pull up the tares. This is what confuses me. Why, once recognized are they allowed to remain? How would pulling them up once recognized harm the wheat?
    Matt. 13:30, do you wish to step into Christ' role in judgement Matt. 25:31, there are so many other passages that deal with this Joe that give the whole counsel of God, why be micro-cosmic here?

    As far as a genuine Assembly goes, look at 1 Cor. 5, and 11, maybe that will help with your "church" idea that doesnt fit the passage of scripture you are in.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    John is on track, will you refuse his testimony too? 1 Jn. 2:15-17. This fits with Jesus words which you want to change either way.
    Whammer, your well is poisoned enough from your denial of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. Do not muddy your speech any more. Just answer my questions, I could give a crap what your definition on anything is. I notice this is a ploy of yours, redefine and redetermine what the question should 'actually' say according to nampa cloggers.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    I'm cool with assertions as much as the next guy but can you demonstrate WHY this is the only way to make sense of the parable?
    Scoot, I know the people here!!!! The reason I limited the field in the narrowest sense, is 2 fold:

    1) It is an acceptable understanding according to the 10 commentaries I read

    2) To stop the digressions of many here who would want to redefine church, ecclesiastical authority, servants, ministers, etc etc etc.

    Then chuck would pipe in about baptism and the Lord's supper within 3 posts and the book of concord. Gherhard would ask if the Council of orange or the instructions for his George Foreman grill deny justification by faith. Nick would condemn the papists, Mary would say something that is a lot of words that I could not figure out heads or tales, Zach the greek would give a theological dissertation way beyond my ability to comprehend. We would be talking about duty faith and common grace. Craig Kennedy would be the most polite guy in the conversation that it is hard to say you disagree with him. Bob would write a few sentences with exclamation points at the end. And we would never discuss my questions.

    And look at the result. 2 people answered, the rest are arguing over my stipulations!!!! If you look at the words of that parable:

    “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;

    It says MAN, singular pronoun and singular verb sowed. This makes the application universal in the whole world, but limits the lesson to a specific locality where the "ONE MAN' in each locality is sowing the seed. I am not sowing seed in Toronto, you are not sowing seed in New york. It specifically speaks of pastors in each Church of Christ worldwide. The servants in New York are not noticing the wheat and tares in Toronto.

    Is that a good enough explanation? I certainly hope so since it not only linguistically is correct, but contextually also.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Matt. 13:30, do you wish to step into Christ' role in judgement Matt. 25:31, there are so many other passages that deal with this Joe that give the whole counsel of God, why be micro-cosmic here?

    As far as a genuine Assembly goes, look at 1 Cor. 5, and 11, maybe that will help with your "church" idea that doesnt fit the passage of scripture you are in.
    I am being micro cosmic here because I want to be. I asked an honest couple of questions with sincerity, limiting the definition so people like yourself would not get hung up and your definitions of 'church', only in order to find an answer. The genuine assembly or whatever you call it has both tares and wheat. When Paul wrote to the people in Corinth, they were gathering somewhere, they weren't just hanging out on their local street corner listening to an open air preacher so stop this malarkey immediately.

    You know what, I fell for your junk that I knew would emerge.

    Just answer the question.

    Why are we commanded not to pull up the tares after they are noticed. How can this affect the wheat?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Scoot, I know the people here!!!! The reason I limited the field in the narrowest sense, is 2 fold:

    1) It is an acceptable understanding according to the 10 commentaries I read

    2) To stop the digressions of many here who would want to redefine church, ecclesiastical authority, servants, ministers, etc etc etc.

    Then chuck would pipe in about baptism and the Lord's supper within 3 posts and the book of concord. Gherhard would ask if the Council of orange or the instructions for his George Foreman grill deny justification by faith. Nick would condemn the papists, Mary would say something that is a lot of words that I could not figure out heads or tales, Zach the greek would give a theological dissertation way beyond my ability to comprehend. We would be talking about duty faith and common grace. Craig Kennedy would be the most polite guy in the conversation that it is hard to say you disagree with him. Bob would write a few sentences with exclamation points at the end. And we would never discuss my questions.

    And look at the result. 2 people answered, the rest are arguing over my stipulations!!!! If you look at the words of that parable:

    “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;

    It says MAN, singular pronoun and singular verb sowed. This makes the application universal in the whole world, but limits the lesson to a specific locality where the "ONE MAN' in each locality is sowing the seed. I am not sowing seed in Toronto, you are not sowing seed in New york. It specifically speaks of pastors in each Church of Christ worldwide. The servants in New York are not noticing the wheat and tares in Toronto.

    Is that a good enough explanation? I certainly hope so since it not only linguistically is correct, but contextually also.
    While I do agree with some of what you posted I disagree on your definition of how "man" is being used. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost positive the man being spoken of is Christ - and it is Him who is sowing "good seed" (the elect) in the field (the world).

    I don't know. Maybe I'm confused about what you're saying. Can you cite the sources for your interpretations so I can give them a look-see?

    Thanks.

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