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Thread: Tares and Darnel

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    While I do agree with some of what you posted I disagree on your definition of how \"man\" is being used. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost positive the man being spoken of is Christ - and it is Him who is sowing \"good seed\" (the elect) in the field (the world).

    I don't know. Maybe I'm confused about what you're saying. Can you cite the sources for your interpretations so I can give them a look-see?

    Thanks.
    Christ does represent the man in the parable, but Christ is not on earth anymore verbally speaking to the wheat and the tares.

    Here is Gill:

    Another parable put he forth unto them, saying
    Somewhat like the former, but with a different view: for whereas the design of the former was to show the different sorts of hearers that attend upon the ministry of the word, three parts in four being bad; this is to show the difference of members in churches, some being comparable to good seed, and others to tares.

    The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in
    his field:
    by "the kingdom of heaven", is not meant the ultimate glory of the saints in heaven, or the state of happiness in the other world; for there will be no tares there; nor the Gospel, and the ministration of it, but the Gospel dispensation, and times, and kingdom of the Messiah; or rather the Gospel visible church state, on earth, called a "kingdom", of which Christ is king, and in which the saints are subject to him; where proper laws are made for the orderly government of it, and proper officers appointed to explain, and put those laws in execution; and which consists of various persons, united under one head, and independent of any other government: and it is styled the kingdom of heaven, in distinction from the kingdoms of this world; the subjects of it are, or should be, heaven born souls; the word, laws, and ordinances of it are from heaven; and there is some resemblance between a Gospel church state and heaven, and it is very near unto it, and is even the suburbs of it: or else the king Messiah himself is intended, who is compared to a man, a sower; and so it is explained, (Matthew 13:37) "he that soweth the good seed is the son of man": which is a name and title of the Messiah, by which he is called both in the Old and New Testament; who, though the seed of the woman, yet was the son of man, as of Abraham, and David; and which denotes the truth, and yet the infirmity of his human nature: he is the sower that went about preaching the Gospel of the kingdom, in the Jewish world, or throughout Judea and Galilee, in his own person: and who also, by the ministry of his apostles, sowed the seed of the word in the several parts of the world, which was made effectual for the beginning of a good work of grace on the souls of many; for by "his field" is meant "the world", as appears from (Matthew 13:38) and means either the whole world, in which both good and bad men live and dwell; and is the field Christ is the proprietor of, both by creation, as God, and by gift, as mediator: or the church, the visible Gospel church state throughout the world; which is as a field well tilled and manured; and is Christ's by gift, purchase, and grace: and by the good seed sown in it, are meant "the children of the kingdom"; as is said, (Matthew 13:38) such as have a good work begun in them, and bring forth good fruit in their lives and conversations.





    Geneva Study:


    (4) Christ shows in another parable of the evil seed mixed with the good, that the Church will never be free and rid of offences, both in doctrine and manners, until the day appointed for the restoring of all things comes, and therefore the faithful have to arm themselves with patience and steadfastness.





    Matt Henry:


    24-30, 36-43 This parable represents the present and future state of the gospel church; Christ's care of it, the devil's enmity against it, the mixture there is in it of good and bad in this world, and the separation between them in the other world. Note, The visible church is the kingdom of heaven; though there be many hypocrites in it, Christ rules in it as a King; and there is a remnant in it, that are the subjects and heirs of heaven, from whom, as the better part, it is denominated: the church is the kingdom of heaven upon earth. When he ascended on high, he gave gifts to the world; not only good ministers, but other good men. Note, Whatever good seed there is in the world, it all comes from the hand of Christ, and is of his sowing: truths preached, graces planted, souls sanctified, are good seed, and all owing to Christ. Ministers are instruments in Christ's hand to sow good seed; are employed by him and under him, and the success of their labours depends purely upon his blessing; so that it may well be said, It is Christ, and no other, that sows the good seed; he is the Son of man, one of us, that his terror might not make us afraid; the Son of man, the Mediator, and that has authority.



    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    the world here is the visible church, scattered all the world over, not confined to one nation.

    JFB

    30, 39. Let both grow together--that is, in the visible Church.


    Adam Clark
    Verse 24. The kingdom of heaven
    God's method of managing the affairs of the world, and the concerns of his Church.

    Is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field
    In general, the world may be termed the field of God; and in particular, those who profess to believe in God through Christ are his field or farm; among whom God sows nothing but the pure unadulterated word of his truth.





    The righteous and the wicked are often mingled in the visible Church.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”



    I recently read this parable again and am confused by a couple things. For starters, let's start with the truth that the field is a visible Church. (Please do not digress into ekklesia of called out ones, or there is no visible church) If so, lets just say the visible gathering of people worshiping on a Sunday in one location. The field is wrongly concluded to be the world anyway by many, so I wont allow that for this discussion.

    1) Why does Christ command us to not search out the tares and pull them up?

    2) How would this affect the Wheat if the tares/darnel are rooted up?

    First my initial thoughts are we cannot always tell who are wheat and who are darnel. We have the wrong perception that the reprobate are always God hating atheists when scripture really never paints them in such a picture. They actually mimic the elect in many ways. But in this account, they are noticeable to the servants and the owner, which I would say is the pastor and elders of the field, or the pastors and Christ for the sake of discussion. But they are commanded not to pull them up and rid the body of their presence.


    Any thoughts?
    Hello Joe,

    I think Scott is right about the man as we have the explanation given to us by Jesus Himself in Matthew 13:37-38, the sower of the good seed is the Son of Man, Christ Jesus. So I think any understanding of the parable needs to come from His explanation first of all.

    And of course you don’t want to acknowledge that Jesus tells us that the field is the world so it’s hard to communicate with you but I had some thoughts anyway so will write them down.

    I believe, in part, that the Kingdom of God is within believers ( a new heart in regeneration and the abiding of the Holy Spirit) so how can anyone truly discern the tares from the wheat? Can you see into my heart and discern if I am a tare or wheat? Do you think that if someone was trying to gather up the tares at that time they might have gathered up all the thieves in the land, thereby gathering up the thief on the cross who was a son of the Kingdom? Would that have uprooted the wheat and done harm to him? Does it appear that some are tares when they are wheat and does it appear that some are wheat when they are really tares?

    That is why, I believe, that Jesus says leave them alone. It will be the end of the age when the Son of Man will send forth angels to gather out the tares because He knows who they are and He certainly knows His own. THEN, the righteous will shine forth!

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Hello Joe,

    I think Scott is right about the man as we have the explanation given to us by Jesus Himself in Matthew 13:37-38, the sower of the good seed is the Son of Man, Christ Jesus. So I think any understanding of the parable needs to come from His explanation first of all.

    And of course you don’t want to acknowledge that Jesus tells us that the field is the world so it’s hard to communicate with you but I had some thoughts anyway so will write them down.

    I believe, in part, that the Kingdom of God is within believers ( a new heart in regeneration and the abiding of the Holy Spirit) so how can anyone truly discern the tares from the wheat? Can you see into my heart and discern if I am a tare or wheat? Do you think that if someone was trying to gather up the tares at that time they might have gathered up all the thieves in the land, thereby gathering up the thief on the cross who was a son of the Kingdom? Would that have uprooted the wheat and done harm to him? Does it appear that some are tares when they are wheat and does it appear that some are wheat when they are really tares?

    That is why, I believe, that Jesus says leave them alone. It will be the end of the age when the Son of Man will send forth angels to gather out the tares because He knows who they are and He certainly knows His own. THEN, the righteous will shine forth!

    Eileen~
    What a great response and answer by Eileen here to Joe's questions! Her thoughts reflect my own INTERPRETATION OF THIS MATTER.

    I will simply add a few thoughts of my own that merely COMPLEMENT and EXPAND on what Eileen has already expressed and explained so well.

    God's judgment is a PERFECT JUDGMENT and as such ONLY HE searches all thoughts, deeds, motives and actions with EXACT PRECISION. Furthermore, God has a DEFINITE PURPOSE for decreeing that the tares are often in close contact and communication with HIS ELECT; it humbles His Elect, it refines them and makes them fit vessels of mercy to SHINE FORTH BRIGHTLY at the Second Coming, at the LAST DAY. (I have abandoned Dispensationalism as an incorrect system of biblical interpretation and returned to an Amillennial/Historicist interpretation of eschatology. I praise God for His goodness!).

    Furthermore, the PURPOSE OF GOD in decreeing that the tares are often in close contact and communication with HIS ELECT in this earthly life is that the reprobate (the tares, the goats) are allowed to ripen fully and drink the "cup of iniquity" fully that God has ordained for them. In this way, God's wrath will be manifested as JUST and RIGHTEOUS AGAINST THEM!

    I think, too, that God keeps so-called Church leaders, elders, and Pastors completely HUMBLE and UTTERLY DEPENDENT UPON HIM in their servant work of guiding God's true people with genuineness, sincerity and spiritual abasement. Church Leaders are NOT infallible; they can and do often ERR - God knows this and has appointed for this to be the scenario. Therefore, put NO confidence in any Pastor or elder who can make a mistake but, rather, place ENTIRE CONFIDENCE in God who allows the tares to grow together with the darnel until the Harvest (the Last Day). O see the great Wisdom and Plan of God here!

    The KEY PRINCIPLE here? Answer: The Lord ONLY (praise His Holy Name!) knows those who are His; true Judgment belongs only to the Lord and this is God's DECREED and ORDAINED WAY of Humbling His Elect!

    Praise God for His Wise and Infinite Judgments! They are, indeed, past finding out! All of this is why God COMMANDS us NOT to attempt to uproot or weed out the Darnel before God's appointed time.

    Cheers, In Christ Craig
    I believe I am ETERNALLY SECURE based on the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST! My faith is belief In Christ
    apart from works (Romans 4:5).

    "...for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith. Who is it that conquers the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?"
    (1 John 5:4-5 NRSV)

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Whammer, your well is poisoned enough from your denial of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. Do not muddy your speech any more. Just answer my questions, I could give a crap what your definition on anything is. I notice this is a ploy of yours, redefine and redetermine what the question should 'actually' say according to nampa cloggers.


    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    1) Why does Christ command us to not search out the tares and pull them up?

    2) How would this affect the Wheat if the tares/darnel are rooted up?
    It can damage the wheat.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    How would pulling them up once recognized harm the wheat
    Wheat can not always be recognized. They look the same until the wheat matures. Maybe not all the wheat matures, but it is still wheat.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    I agree, my question is when the crop reaches maturity, we are commanded not to pull up the tares.
    If memory serves, there is no mention of the maturity of the wheat.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    the rest are arguing over my stipulations!!!!
    That is because your stipulations are wrong. Stick to the limits of the explanation that Jesus gives of the parable.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Hello Joe,

    I think Scott is right about the man as we have the explanation given to us by Jesus Himself in Matthew 13:37-38, the sower of the good seed is the Son of Man, Christ Jesus. So I think any understanding of the parable needs to come from His explanation first of all.

    And of course you don’t want to acknowledge that Jesus tells us that the field is the world so it’s hard to communicate with you but I had some thoughts anyway so will write them down.

    I believe, in part, that the Kingdom of God is within believers ( a new heart in regeneration and the abiding of the Holy Spirit) so how can anyone truly discern the tares from the wheat? Can you see into my heart and discern if I am a tare or wheat? Do you think that if someone was trying to gather up the tares at that time they might have gathered up all the thieves in the land, thereby gathering up the thief on the cross who was a son of the Kingdom? Would that have uprooted the wheat and done harm to him? Does it appear that some are tares when they are wheat and does it appear that some are wheat when they are really tares?

    That is why, I believe, that Jesus says leave them alone. It will be the end of the age when the Son of Man will send forth angels to gather out the tares because He knows who they are and He certainly knows His own. THEN, the righteous will shine forth!

    Eileen~
    Eileen, except we are told the servants, the ministers of Christ on earth, recognized the tares. Everyone keeps saying we cannot tell, but the parable says they can. And even after recognizing them, they are commanded not to pull them up.

    26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?


    Also, I have shown Scott where I determined the true understanding of the words, so let's put that horse to rest.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post


    Wheat can not always be recognized. They look the same until the wheat matures. Maybe not all the wheat matures, but it is still wheat.


    If memory serves, there is no mention of the maturity of the wheat.
    It says the servants came and recognized the tares from the wheat. See why this is confusing me?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Eileen, except we are told the servants, the ministers of Christ on earth, recognized the tares. Everyone keeps saying we cannot tell, but the parable says they can. And even after recognizing them, they are commanded not to pull them up.

    26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
    28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?


    Also, I have shown Scott where I determined the true understanding of the words, so let's put that horse to rest.
    Ahhh Joe you are actually so funny. You have determined the true understanding of the words so everyone else is supposed to bow ro that true understanding? Really, let's get real here, it's not a horse, it is the very word of Jesus...................the field is the world period! You can make it what you want to but you are denying the clear words of Christ! So no, that horse will not be put to rest because it determines a clear understanding of the parable.

    It is a parable remember. Christ is the 'householder' and you are assuming that that the servants are ministers in the church. Isn't that quite a jump to assume that? Does it say that or does the parable reference reapers who also can be the servants..........the angels. They are servants of the Most High God. Could it be possible that He is telling the angels, the reapers, the ones who truly will gather and uproot to let them grow throughout all the ages and when it is the harvest time.........THEN you can harvest and I will send you forth into the WORLD to do that! Isn't that how He actually explained it to His disciples?

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Ahhh Joe you are actually so funny. You have determined the true understanding of the words so everyone else is supposed to bow ro that true understanding? Really, let's get real here, it's not a horse, it is the very word of Jesus...................the field is the world period! You can make it what you want to but you are denying the clear words of Christ! So no, that horse will not be put to rest because it determines a clear understanding of the parable.

    It is a parable remember. Christ is the 'householder' and you are assuming that that the servants are ministers in the church. Isn't that quite a jump to assume that? Does it say that or does the parable reference reapers who also can be the servants..........the angels. They are servants of the Most High God. Could it be possible that He is telling the angels, the reapers, the ones who truly will gather and uproot to let them grow throughout all the ages and when it is the harvest time.........THEN you can harvest and I will send you forth into the WORLD to do that! Isn't that how He actually explained it to His disciples?

    Eileen~
    Since tares will not be present in Heaven, this is about the Kingdom of God on earth. I am the one using 10 commentaries and exegetical studies of the words to determine meaning. Not some anti visible gathering of worshipers mindset. Once again i will say the field is His Kingdom on earth. The world of those who worship God. The servants are minsters of the gospel who spread His seed. I am not going to repeat this all again because once again youre doing what I asked not anyone to do. You are all a bunch of rockheads and cannot take orders very well. LOLOL.. I need to have my wife train you on how to listen to me.

    And no, that is not how He explained it to His disciples. He uses 2 differnt words. Doulos and theristēs
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    You are all a bunch of rockheads and cannot take orders very well. LOLOL..
    This is because we do not recognize your authority and your stipulations are still wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    See why this is confusing me?
    Yes. Yes, I do. If you are the one that is confused, then quit telling everyone how to answer your questions and listen to what you are being told.


    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah
    I need to have my wife train you on how to listen to me.
    Maybe, perhaps it's you that needs training in listening from your wife.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    Since tares will not be present in Heaven, this is about the Kingdom of God on earth. I am the one using 10 commentaries and exegetical studies of the words to determine meaning. Not some anti visible gathering of worshipers mindset. Once again i will say the field is His Kingdom on earth. The world of those who worship God. The servants are minsters of the gospel who spread His seed. I am not going to repeat this all again because once again youre doing what I asked not anyone to do. You are all a bunch of rockheads and cannot take orders very well. LOLOL.. I need to have my wife train you on how to listen to me.

    And no, that is not how He explained it to His disciples. He uses 2 differnt words. Doulos and theristēs
    Ahh, it is so good that you have so many of "other men's" interpretations to stand on Joe, there's safety in numbers of "scholarly" men huh. Maybe you should back up a few sentences and look at Matt. 13:10-15, see if you understand those words, they preceed this "parable" which has put you in such a state of confusion. You've rejected Jesus' own comentary of the parable of the tares in favor of 10 other commentaries, that sounds appropriate
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Ahh, it is so good that you have so many of "other men's" interpretations to stand on Joe, there's safety in numbers of "scholarly" men huh. Maybe you should back up a few sentences and look at Matt. 13:10-15, see if you understand those words, they precede this "parable" which has put you in such a state of confusion. You've rejected Jesus' own commentary of the parable of the tares in favor of 10 other commentaries, that sounds appropriate
    Ah yes, I was waiting for you to spew this verse. The ole "Maybe God has blinded you." empty assertion. Good job Bryan. Good job.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    Yes. Yes, I do. If you are the one that is confused, then quit telling everyone how to answer your questions and listen to what you are being told.
    You are wrong in your answer though. You said we cannot tell who are the tares and who are the wheat, yet the parable says the 'servants' doulos, did notice them yet we still commanded to not pull them up for fear of harming the wheat. What harm is Christ speaking of? And elect of God can never be bundled with the tares and thrown into the fire, so what gives?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    I think the problem is that although we can tell the tares are present and perhaps can accurately point to a couple here and there, if we pull out the weed eater and start trying to root them all up we will end up rooting out much of the wheat as well. I think most agree that there should be doctrinal agreement for Christian fellowship to take place at some level. The question is, "How far do you go?" If we start building inference upon inference and excommunicating others who do not agree with our inferences then we are bound whack some wheat. At the end we might even find out that we were the tares.

    I don't think that the regenerate/unregenerate, elect/reprobate have really anything to do with the parables at all. Paul does rant about it and neither does Jesus. The issue is believer vs. unbeliever. We can tell that unbelievers are in our midst but we don't necessarily always know who they are and we should not live in constant suspicion. God can sort things out.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    You are wrong in your answer though. You said we cannot tell who are the tares and who are the wheat, yet the parable says the 'servants' doulos, did notice them yet we still commanded to not pull them up for fear of harming the wheat. What harm is Christ speaking of? And elect of God can never be bundled with the tares and thrown into the fire, so what gives?
    Wrong again. I said that you can not always recognize the wheat and Jesus does not reveal who the servants of the household are, but He does reveal who the reapers are. The reapers are the angels.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    Wrong again. I said that you can not always recognize the wheat and Jesus does not reveal who the servants of the household are, but He does reveal who the reapers are. The reapers are the angels.

    Also the reason I believe we cant just start tearing out the tares from the wheat is one because its not our job, Christ will come back and do that, then throw them in the fire. Least that is what I get from this verse. We can recognize for the most part who is not converted to our faith. However, just because they are at this present time walking in darkness doesn't mean they are a tare! They could still be wheat... they are just lost sheep.. and until God finds them, and opens up their eyes to see and ears to hear... they will appear to be tares, but not.. they are elect. At one point in time we all "appeared" to be tares to people but not to God. So its not our place to go around figuring out who are tares, the nonelect and who are wheat, the elect.
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Joe:
    You might want to check out Robert Capon's commentary on the parables: http://books.google.com/books?id=o7Q...esult&resnum=2

    The section the weeds starts on page 83. Capon is one of those rare writers that I enjoy reading even when I absolutely disagree with him. In this case I think he makes some very good observations.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by lionovjudah View Post
    You are wrong in your answer though. You said we cannot tell who are the tares and who are the wheat, yet the parable says the 'servants' doulos, did notice them yet we still commanded to not pull them up for fear of harming the wheat. What harm is Christ speaking of? And elect of God can never be bundled with the tares and thrown into the fire, so what gives?
    Regardless of who the servants are the parable doesn't say that they recognized the tares, it actually teaches that they THOUGHT they recognized the tares because if they went about uprooting whom they thought was a tare they would also uproot the wheat. What does that say except you can't tell who is a tare and who is a wheat? The whole point is that ONLY Christ has the right to that judgment and He will do that at the end of the age.

    I can think of great harm that the 'church' has done to actual wheat in their labeling them as tares because of doctrines for instance. Harm such as excommunication, censure, shunning, etc. and especially burning at the stake. The Puritans burned many at the stake deeming them heretics simply because they had a different doctrine and they did that in the name of the 'church. Perhaps you need to think carefully about what power you want to give to the 'church'.

    I disagree with your assumption that the Kingdom of God is the 'visible church' and you totally misrepresent those here at P-net by saying that we have a "anti visible gathering of worshipers mindset." You should know better by now as long as you have been here. We don't have any thing against gathering with the saints, we just don't practice it the same way you do. Get it right for once would you?

    BTW, LOL indeed on your previous post!

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

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    Re: Tares and Darnel

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen
    I can think of great harm that the 'church' has done to actual wheat in their labeling them as tares because of doctrines for instance. Harm such as excommunication, censure, shunning, etc. and especially burning at the stake. The Puritans burned many at the stake deeming them heretics simply because they had a different doctrine and they did that in the name of the 'church. Perhaps you need to think carefully about what power you want to give to the 'church'.

    I disagree with your assumption that the Kingdom of God is the 'visible church' and you totally misrepresent those here at P-net by saying that we have a "anti visible gathering of worshipers mindset." You should know better by now as long as you have been here. We don't have any thing against gathering with the saints, we just don't practice it the same way you do. Get it right for once would you?
    Who are all these people you are talking about that the Puritans burned at the stake? I do agree that the "kingdom/reign of heaven/God" and the church are not exactly the same thing. As one place puts it:

    Q. What does Jesus mean by the kingdom of God? Example: Seek ye first the kingdom of God (Matt. 6:33). Jesus often used parables to picture the kingdom of God. Did He mean heaven?
    A. The kingdom of God is His ruling as King over the whole universe (kingdom of power, Ps.103:19), the church on earth (kingdom of grace, John 3:5), and the church and angels in heaven (kingdom of glory, 2 Timothy 4:18).
    The kingdom of God centers in the King, Jesus Christ, and in the powers of grace, might and glory that are found in and go out from Him. Where He is, there the kingdom is, because there He exercises grace and power.
    "To seek His kingdom" is to desire more and more participation in the rule of the Father's grace in Christ, enjoying more and more the blessings (5:3) of that rule of grace which eventually becomes a rule of glory in heaven.


    So the kingdom of God and the church are not the same thing but the church is the tool through which God has determined to send forth the Gospel and bring the Gospel to people. The parables tell the church what to expect when the Gospel goes forth.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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