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    Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    I looked at Gill's take on these 4 sections, and they dont even look comparative, but there's a problem here and I'd personally get the forum's thoughts on this event.

    In Jn 1:31-33, John didnt even know he was about to baptize the Christ, in any event he knew afterwards because of what he heard from heaven.

    In Mk 1:9-11, it appears about the same, Jesus shows up, gets baptized, same Voice, and off he goes.

    In Lk. 3:21-22 it appears someone almost forgot to get Jesus baptism in the story as you look at verses 19-20, kind of "oh and Jesus got baptized too"

    But its Matthews version that is troubling for a couple reasons, #1 it contradicts John's gospel, unless you say "well John and Jesus knew each other as cousins, but John (who was filled with the Spirit from the womb and leaped for joy when Mary showed up) just didnt know he was the Messiah, but then #2, the problem with that is Matthew is the only one who says that John tried to prevent Jesus from being baptized because he did actually know him and just why he was.
    Problem #3 is this statement,
    Mt 3:15, (WEB), But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed him.

    So how can we make Matthews version harmonize with the others, and how can John's baptism be a fitting way to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    But its Matthews version that is troubling for a couple reasons, #1 it contradicts John's gospel, unless you say "well John and Jesus knew each other as cousins
    Bryan, it doesn't matter if something doesn't make sense to me in the bible. If it doesn't make sense to me, then I need to ask God what it means. If I don't get an immediate answer, I need to wait on the Lord.
    The bottom line of what I am saying Bryan is that there is not one single contradiction in the bible taken in context. If we don't understand something, it is because it has not been revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. It is never because there is any contradiction in the bible, because there are none. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

    but John (who was filled with the Spirit from the womb and leaped for joy when Mary showed up) just didnt know he was the Messiah, but then #2, the problem with that is Matthew is the only one who says that John tried to prevent Jesus from being baptized because he did actually know him and just why he was.
    Problem #3 is this statement,
    Mt 3:15, (WEB), But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed him.

    So how can we make Matthews version harmonize with the others, and how can John's baptism be a fitting way to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    We need to trust God in the harmonisation of scripture, and where we don't understand, we need to ask Him and read other scriptures that can give us answers.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    I was taught years ago (by the church of my upbringing) that Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness because:

    1. God's law requires one to be baptized.
    2. Some who believe and do good works fail (for whatever reason) to get baptized.
    3. Christ's baptism is therefore IMPUTED to those who don't have the personal righteousness of baptism to their credit.

    Anyway, I'm sure that all know what I think of this teaching now!

    The fulfillment of righteousness refers (in my view) to Christ's public anointing to ministry by the ceremonial application of water, nothing more.

    --Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    I was taught years ago (by the church of my upbringing) that Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness because:

    1. God's law requires one to be baptized.
    2. Some who believe and do good works fail (for whatever reason) to get baptized.
    3. Christ's baptism is therefore IMPUTED to those who don't have the personal righteousness of baptism to their credit.

    Anyway, I'm sure that all know what I think of this teaching now!

    The fulfillment of righteousness refers (in my view) to Christ's public anointing to ministry by the ceremonial application of water, nothing more.

    --Bob
    Jn 10:41, (WEB), Many came to him. They said, "John indeed did no sign, but everything that John said about this man is true."

    I agree with your conclusion, and also held to those and other false doctrines of water baptismal necessity, I just wanted to add that I think the fact that Jesus would do this ceremonially is also to lend further credibility to John's prophetic ministerial role as "Elijah to come", kind of a 2 way street I guess you could say.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawker View Post
    Bryan, it doesn't matter if something doesn't make sense to me in the bible. If it doesn't make sense to me, then I need to ask God what it means. If I don't get an immediate answer, I need to wait on the Lord.
    The bottom line of what I am saying Bryan is that there is not one single contradiction in the bible taken in context. If we don't understand something, it is because it has not been revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. It is never because there is any contradiction in the bible, because there are none. 2 Timothy 3:16-17.


    We need to trust God in the harmonisation of scripture, and where we don't understand, we need to ask Him and read other scriptures that can give us answers.
    You've also got to remember that when Jesus was water baptized, the Paul hadnt written Timothy yet, so that doesnt answer any of this Kev.

    John's version and Matthews are contradictory no matter how you slice it. Matthew is the only one of the 4 that makes this distinction as Jesus is definately known by John, hence his response to Jesus. John's gospel paints a completely different, Mark and Luke are in harmony with John at this point.

    I agree that one does not need to understand every single doctrine at 100% completion, I agree that God does give revelation when and if He wants to, I do not hold a "fundementalist" view of scripture, so when I come across things like this, my faith is not shaken........but the contradiction is real and cant be just "dismissed". Thanks for your response Kev., I just ask you to re-consider what is said in the 2.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by whammer
    I looked at Gill's take on these 4 sections, and they dont even look comparative, but there's a problem here and I'd personally get the forum's thoughts on this event.

    In Jn 1:31-33, John didnt even know he was about to baptize the Christ, in any event he knew afterwards because of what he heard from heaven.

    In Mk 1:9-11, it appears about the same, Jesus shows up, gets baptized, same Voice, and off he goes.

    In Lk. 3:21-22 it appears someone almost forgot to get Jesus baptism in the story as you look at verses 19-20, kind of "oh and Jesus got baptized too"

    But its Matthews version that is troubling for a couple reasons, #1 it contradicts John's gospel, unless you say "well John and Jesus knew each other as cousins, but John (who was filled with the Spirit from the womb and leaped for joy when Mary showed up) just didnt know he was the Messiah, but then #2, the problem with that is Matthew is the only one who says that John tried to prevent Jesus from being baptized because he did actually know him and just why he was.
    Problem #3 is this statement,
    Mt 3:15, (WEB), But Jesus, answering, said to him, "Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed him.

    So how can we make Matthews version harmonize with the others, and how can John's baptism be a fitting way to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    This is one of the irritations I have with books that try to arrange the Bible in chronological order. It can serve some use but is no substitute for the books as the appear in their original form. The different Gospel writers are all writing to different audiences with different purposes in mind and only one of them seems at all concerned with chronology. Most of the passages are arranged thematically in order to make the point that the particular Gospel writer is trying to make. If I were writing a paper trying to convince a group of Lutherans about something I would probably arrange it differently than if I were trying to convince a bunch of Baptists about something. The basic content might be the same but arranged differently.

    John 1:19-36 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No." 22 Then they said to him, "Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?" 23 He said: "I am 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Make straight the way of the LORD," ' as the prophet Isaiah said." 24 Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, saying, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?" 26 John answered them, saying, "I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know. 27 "It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose." 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 "This is He of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.' 31 "I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water." 32 And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 "I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' 34 "And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God." 35 Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples. 36 And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, "Behold the Lamb of God!"

    The passage is not attempting to lay out a chronology of the events of Jesus' baptism. It's presenting us with John the Baptizer who just kept pointing to Christ just as he is represented as doing so in Christian artwork. He keeps pointing to Jesus and saying "Behold the Lamb of God!" That's the point of the passage. The Apostle John is showing how John the Baptizer kept saying that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world and telling us to look at Jesus in the same way.

    Within the passage John the Baptizer looks back on the baptism of Jesus' as a past event. John the Baptizer says that prior to the time that Jesus came to him for baptism he did not know who the Messiah was personally. He lept in the womb as a baby when the Word was proclaimed through the mouth of the blessed virgin Mary but he probably didn't grow up with Jesus. He was commissioned by God to baptize and told by God that the One on whom the Holy Spirit descended like a dove was the Son of God. So the descent of the Spirit was a confirmation that Jesus was the Son of God for John the Baptizer. In the other Gospel accounts we are given a more complete story of what happened. Apparently the Holy Spirit let John know that Jesus was the Son of God when he saw Jesus approaching. But John the Baptizer is not just trying to relate a chronological story here. He has a point to make and he is trying to convince the Pharisees and others. He's not going to get his Mormon on and appeal to a burning in his bosom as proof that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. He appeals to an outward objective event, not just some feeling he had. There were others there during the baptism of Jesus who would have visually seen the descent of the Holy Spirit.

    So according to the Gospel of John, John the baptizer knew ahead of time that he was supposed to baptize Jesus. I really don't think this is much of a problem when reading Matthew. John was told ahead of time but when confronted with the Son of God Himself I could definitely see why he would wonder why on earth he would be baptizing Him. He recognized that Jesus was far more righteous than himself and really needed no washing of sins at all. But there would be no reason for John the Baptizer to relate this part of the story when he was speaking with the Pharisees. In fact they may have tried to use it against him and ask why if God told him this ahead of time he was so hesitant to baptize Jesus when He came to him.

    There are various interpretations of Matthew 3:15 and it's a very profound statement. Up until now I've just been winging it but for what follows I am greatly indebted to Jeffrey Gibbs excellent commentary on Matthew. Every single word is important. "Allow it" indicates that Jesus baptism is a concession due to His state of humiliation--the sinless Son of God receives the baptism meant for sinners because He shall be the sin bearer. "at this time, now" validates John's earlier eschatological preaching about the reign of heaven and the Coming One. John had spoken of what the Coming One would do on the Last Day (3:11-12), and Jesus' submission to John's baptism is a public affirmation that John's preaching was true. Jesus Baptism "now" is a necessary preparation for what Jesus will do on the Last Day. John the Baptizer did not yet understand how the Coming One will manifest the reign of heaven "now," in the present time, as the humble sin-bearer. "For us" indicates that both John and Jesus were participants. "To fulfill" in this context where Matthew is always pointing to how Jesus is fulfilling Old Testament prophecy carries with it the meaning "to enact or participate in the divine scriptural plan of salvation." God's righteousness will be fulfilled when John baptizes Jesus, and then all people may in faith seek God's reign and His righteousness in Jesus." In the Old Testament God's righteous often has reference to His saving deeds and I believe that is the meaning here. This is "fitting" because it shows perfectly how Jesus "will save his people from their sins. It shows how the reign of heaven will come now in an unexpected way. With John's participation, Jesus will perform "all righteousness," that is, He will enact God's saving deeds for the people by (literally) standing with sinners, taking the place of sinners, receiving from John the baptism that sinners receive. Jesus willing baptism in the Jordan is a sign that points forward. It is a cruciform harbinger, pointing forward to the hidden and unexpected, shockingly weak and vulnerable in-breaking reign of God, to the paradoxical enthronement of the King of the Jews on the cross.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post

    The passage is not attempting to lay out a chronology of the events of Jesus' baptism.
    My questions dont even have anything to do with chronology, they deal with the event itself. Timeliness has nothing to do with this thread Chuck, lets just stick to what the thread is about.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by whammer
    My questions dont even have anything to do with chronology, they deal with the event itself.
    Your questions are based on your interpretation of when John knew he would baptize Jesus and when John knew that Jesus was the Messiah so it can hardly be said that time has nothing to do with it.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    My questions dont even have anything to do with chronology, they deal with the event itself. Timeliness has nothing to do with this thread Chuck, lets just stick to what the thread is about.
    Interesting thread to say the least... I think this post is where it all went south real fast. Bryan though this may have been your opinion of what was said I too believe that Chucks reponse was valid. He was trying to address your topic, it wasn't off topic, it wasn't being "mean" to other people.. it was his honest answer. I believe that it was a good start to this discussion and if you had let it go.. responded or not would have been ok. But its like your closed off... it seems you wanted to discuss but as soon as Chuck gave his response you shut him up just 'cause you didn't agree with his perspective.

    We all have to remember that this here forum is a place to discuss, we are not always going to agree with peoples responses thats okay, please still let them have their voice. We can learn from "all" things I believe the good and the bad.And I think this thread would have been okay if the maker of it would have been "open" to any reponses dealing with it. But instead it went sour fast... and I think since we are human we're not perfect and sometimes online forums can become "heated". We should try to be more Christ like.. a verse in the Bible I like says, (I just shared this with Dustin the other day)

    1 Peter 4:1 "Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies."

    I really liked that verse alone with being slow to speak... it helps us be careful of the things we say. Bryan if you wanted a good discussion from this thread you should have allowed Chucks repsonse and not gotten so upset over it. Also I think having Chuck here Bryan here LionovJudah here and others who do not agree completely with our theology is a good thing. They help us look at things different to reaffirm our beliefs, I listen sometimes to what they say and think NO WAY! I'll look at the Bible and think, what are they smoking that is not what Gods Word says. (Though Im sure they say the same about my beliefs... lol). My point is.. even though some people here believe in false gospels and have a foundation other than our Lord it doesn't mean we are to be "mean" to them. We are to show love in the things we say even if they are not showing love. It would be nice to see more of it but I think its hard when it comes to discussion forums... no matter which one it is I always see people becoming very passionate and hot headed sometimes, even myself! While others do a very good job of keepin' their cool and being nice.

    But one thing for sure those who do not have Christ as their foundation all other theologies of theirs are going to be tainted with false ideas. It is true that I see that in Bryan... along with others here who do not have the Truth as their foundation, I see how that impacts everything else they say. But still... I can learn because they point me to Gods Word and then thru Gods Word alone does the Spirit of our Lord teach me and reveal His Truths to me and their Lies.

    As far as the Trinity is concerned i find it appaling that any man could say to Jesus Christs face that He is just the "image" of our God and not God Himself. Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is God... I AM. Its simple... Im saddened by the change with Bryan.. but it is what it is, and we've done what we can.. now he is in the Lords hands.. and God will do as He see's fit,.. He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. And I will continue to pray and Hope that the Lord opens His eyes... just like all those who are blind I pray for the blind sheep.

    And about comparing Jesus baptisms in the 4 Gospels my main thought on that when reading is i think its easy for the translation of the Bible to me lost. Meaning the original manuscript I believe is the true words of God and over years as the Bible is translated i think that some things some minor things can be lost. This word for righteousness I think in Matthew may have been one of them... that or what Bob said would be a good example as well. But take into account all 3 GOSPELS had an accurate account that matched up about Jesus' baptisms... 3 exact explanations is better than 1 that seems unsure. And as Kevin said their are NO contradictions in Gods Word, if we seem to think there is one its because we are blinded to the Truth.. and God has yet to reveal why it is that way to us.

    And John Gill speaks of this righteousness being fulfilled as moral righteousness and ceremonial. It was right at the time to be baptized, for Christ to do what was right in His father eyes and in the peoples eyes He was to be baptized.. and he went on to say how the God would baptize with the Holy Spirit with fire. Just because a verse talks about righteousness doesn't mean that it is saying to be made right with God... or anything else contrary to our beliefs. RIghteousness means to adhor to moral principles or to be upright... Christ was doing that which was morally right, doesn't mean it was meant as what our righteousness is.. or that for us to be right with God we MUST be baptized.. or for Jesus to be made righteous or Holy he had to be baptized. HOnestly, Im interested in hearing what you THOUGHT this verse meant Bryan?? Did you think it meant something here like this?

    See when I come across Bible verses that I think is saying something else... like grace is by works not faith.. or that theres a progressive sanctification.. etc I look to other places in Gods Word.. does it line up with the rest of Gods Word or does my thought contradict something. IF I contradict something in the Bible then I usually KNOW its wrong.. if my belief contradicts what all the BIble is talking about verse after verse then I know my way of seeing that ONE VERSE must be wrong.

    its happened before I'll read a verse and think WHO wait a minute.. is it really saying what I think its saying? But then how so.. that'd be a complete lie to what I know to be the Truth. That contradicts other verses in the Bible.. In conclusion, my first thought about what something was saying was wrong... because there are no contradictions in the Bible and if I dont understand something or it seems to imply grace by works or what not, then I know that my interpretation of that verse is wrong because theres no way its saying something that goes against Gods Truth.

    Does that make sense? Our interpretations of verses in the Bible can be wrong... we must see how it measures up with the rest of Scripture. To know if something is true we measure it against Gods Word and the Holy Spirit in us reveals to us the Truth. We have nothing else to measure Gods Word against but itself.
    A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. - Wisdom

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Thanks Milt. I too am not surprised for Bryan to start pointing out his perceived contradictions in the Gospels and other precious bible books.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by whammer
    You've also got to remember that when Jesus was water baptized, the Paul hadnt written Timothy yet, so that doesnt answer any of this Kev.
    Paul was not writing primarily about future writings but of past writings--probably the Old Testament was in view. But Paul's statement that all Scripture is God-breathed does apply to all of Scripture whether it had been written yet or not. So you are left with a few options:

    1. Paul was correct in what he said and the Gospels are Scripture. Therefore the Gospels are God-breathed.

    2. Paul was incorrect in what he said and Scripture is not God-breathed.

    3. Paul was correct in what he said but one or more of the Gospels is not Scripture.

    So which one is it?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar View Post
    Paul was not writing primarily about future writings but of past writings--probably the Old Testament was in view. But Paul's statement that all Scripture is God-breathed does apply to all of Scripture whether it had been written yet or not. So you are left with a few options:

    1. Paul was correct in what he said and the Gospels are Scripture. Therefore the Gospels are God-breathed.

    2. Paul was incorrect in what he said and Scripture is not God-breathed.

    3. Paul was correct in what he said but one or more of the Gospels is not Scripture.

    So which one is it?
    You still hold "James" to be Christ centered and high canon, I'm not going to get into meaningless dialogue with you over scripture.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    You still hold "James" to be Christ centered and high canon, I'm not going to get into meaningless dialogue with you over scripture.
    You have confessed to us that you don't believe that Jesus is God. From our point of view, and based on your reasoning above, shouldn't anything you say be meaningless dialogue to us?
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    You have confessed to us that you don't believe that Jesus is God. From our point of view, and based on your reasoning above, shouldn't anything you say be meaningless dialogue to us?
    Surely you saw my debate request in gmail Greg, the Trinity is what I dont believe in, the divinity and humanity of Jesus I do believe in. I believe you are holding to "tri-theistic" doctrine Greg, like the rest.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Moderator Saint Nicholas's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    You still hold "James" to be Christ centered and high canon, I'm not going to get into meaningless dialogue with you over scripture.
    Bryan,.... The issue of James is totaly irrelevant to your argument!

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan,.... The issue of James is totaly irrelevant to your argument!

    Nicholas
    Funny, almost every post I have to answer is yours, glad to see you run to Chuck's aid, he needs it I guess. Your repeated harrassment in this thread is so unnecessary.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Thanks Milt. I too am not surprised for Bryan to start pointing out his perceived contradictions in the Gospels and other precious bible books.
    Listen guys, I started working on blending the gospels last year, I discovered alot of things that were different, I understand audience relevance and the authors differences. My faith in the NT has grown stronger as a result. It made me work on issues like this without consulting every scholar on the face of the planet, I could mention a bunch of these things I have solved (IMO) and a couple I cant, but as I said since I do not hold a fundementalist viewpoint, I am not shaken.

    Brandan, you are in constant violation of your own posting policy about ad hominens. But, then again, you must be exempt as here it is again......do you have any proof I have found contradictions in any other book of scripture? Of course not, because it isnt true.

    Bob gave a good answer right from the beginning, he understood the question and answered part of it, I thought bringing things out like this would be enjoyable for a debate forum.

    Milt, Brandan, you guys act like you know and can judge the depths of my heart, what a foolish thing to do. You know what they say about assumptions.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Brandan, you are in constant violation of your own posting policy about ad hominens. But, then again, you must be exempt as here it is again.
    Bryan, ...Please remember one thing here. Whether Brandan is right or wrong on usage of "ad-hominens", you or others are not given a free pass to retaliate in same manner.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan, ...Please remember one thing here. Whether Brandan is right or wrong on usage of "ad-hominens", you or others are not given a free pass to retaliate in same manner.

    Nicholas
    This is amazing, I point to the posting policies he set up and showed by them how he was displaying violation.............and thats "AD Hominem"? me taking a free pass? This is laughable, the hypocrisy in this thread is dispicable, one of you guys just shut this thread down. I'll bet you consider this all just good Christian conduct though, huh Nick. I could be wrong
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Bryan,

    With all due respect. Chuck's first post was never addressed. You just passed it off and not even addressing the same subject. Chuck showed that the supposed contridiction is easily remedied. When I read the four passages I see that Matthew gives a little more information that the other three versions. This is not a contridiction but it is possible that Matthew was privy to more information on the conversation between John and Jesus than the other authors were.

    Maybe you are seeing a contridiction because you want to. Maybe your new system is beginning to drive your interpretation of all other scripture and making you find ways to support your Christological views.

    Maybe I'm just not getting it? Spell out the supposed contridiction clearly to me. I just don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer
    Problem #3 is this statement,
    Mt 3:15, (WEB), But Jesus, answering, said to him, \"Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness.\" Then he allowed him.

    So how can we make Matthews version harmonize with the others, and how can John's baptism be a fitting way to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    We can discuss interpretation of this verse and what it means by saying "to fulfill all righteousness" You should know most of the interpretations. What do you believe it means? Still, what is your point? Are you seeking clarification? Do you have a agenda or are you trying to promote something? Come out and say what you want out of this thread because from my point of view you have ignored all the good responses and answers people have given without sharing what you believe on these verses and subject except that you feel that there is a contridiciton. All here disagree with you. So make your arguement. Prove your case. Your not doing a good job by the useless banter back and forth between everyone.

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