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Thread: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    You have confessed to us that you don't believe that Jesus is God. From our point of view, and based on your reasoning above, shouldn't anything you say be meaningless dialogue to us?
    Surely you saw my debate request in gmail Greg, the Trinity is what I dont believe in, the divinity and humanity of Jesus I do believe in. I believe you are holding to "tri-theistic" doctrine Greg, like the rest.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Good post Greg! What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    I'll say the same thing I said to Greg, I believe you hold to tri-theism and refuse to acknowledge it. I defined this in my gmail to you and others and that I believe in the divinity and humanity of Christ, I even used the article in part from PNAF...........but I am not a tri-theist any longer.
    And you my friend are still the real coward, you labled me publicly and privately this way.............I borrowed your own terms when you requested debate with Chris. You dont have any real excuse, neither do you Greg, I offered debate and you backed out, both of you.
    But keep throwing out those excuses guys, maybe its what you havnt seen that worry's you guys. I've unwittingly been a tri-theist for over 20 years, but the only religions to challenge me all had false doctrines of God and Christ, that was the trick. No, in digging through the gospels, Jesus re-challenged me Himself, and brought me to the truth. Of course you guys say I've become apostate, I understand that.
    It doesnt change the fact of where the cowardice really lies though, right here on your doorstep Brandan.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

  3. #23
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer
    Good post Greg! What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    I'll say the same thing I said to Greg, I believe you hold to tri-theism and refuse to acknowledge it. I defined this in my gmail to you and others and that I believe in the divinity and humanity of Christ, I even used the article in part from PNAF...........but I am not a tri-theist any longer.
    And you my friend are still the real coward, you labled me publicly and privately this way.............I borrowed your own terms when you requested debate with Chris. You dont have any real excuse, neither do you Greg, I offered debate and you backed out, both of you.
    But keep throwing out those excuses guys, maybe its what you havnt seen that worry's you guys. I've unwittingly been a tri-theist for over 20 years, but the only religions to challenge me all had false doctrines of God and Christ, that was the trick. No, in digging through the gospels, Jesus re-challenged me Himself, and brought me to the truth. Of course you guys say I've become apostate, I understand that.
    It doesnt change the fact of where the cowardice really lies though, right here on your doorstep Brandan.
    This is sheer idiocy.
    This is my signature.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    This is sheer idiocy.
    Sure Brandan, step up to the plate! Since you are dealing with an idiot, it shouldn't be too hard or take you to long to dispatch with me, right?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Alright Chuck, have it your way, but dont sidetrack the thread, if you cant interact in the CLEAR terms, then just bow out of the thread, you're assuming something was in my mind that was not there.
    Bryan,

    I do not see at all in Charles post any "sidetracking". Charles response was very relative to the issue.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan,

    I do not see at all in Charles post any "sidetracking". Charles response was very relative to the issue.

    Nicholas
    Okay.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Brandan, you are in constant violation of your own posting policy about ad hominens. But, then again, you must be exempt as here it is again.
    Bryan, ...Please remember one thing here. Whether Brandan is right or wrong on usage of "ad-hominens", you or others are not given a free pass to retaliate in same manner.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    You still hold "James" to be Christ centered and high canon, I'm not going to get into meaningless dialogue with you over scripture.
    Bryan,.... The issue of James is totaly irrelevant to your argument!

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Bryan,

    Chuck asked a good question. Do you believe the Gospels to be God-breathed? Will you be willing to answer the question?
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Surely you saw my debate request in gmail Greg, the Trinity is what I dont believe in, the divinity and humanity of Jesus I do believe in. I believe you are holding to "tri-theistic" doctrine Greg, like the rest.
    Bryan,........You know well good that we on this forum do not hold to or ever taught a "tri-theistic" Doctrine of God. You may conclude that we do from your lack of understanding (or utter denial), however you just do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity. ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS.

    Please let's not start a debate on the trinity in response to this post.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Sure Brandan, step up to the plate! Since you are dealing with an idiot, it shouldn't be too hard or take you to long to dispatch with me, right?
    Bryan,....please refrain from these shouting matches and verbal (fistfight) exchanges.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Blessings to me, what a joke after this shot. Well Prophet Almeida, did Jesus get baptized more than once? All 4 authors speak about one event, what is your own answer to my questions.
    Your assertions about me questioning the authenticity of the NT are false, a lie at the very least. But then many that know me think I have done that because I got rid of James from the NT canon. Oh, and the song of songs in the OT.
    Dear Bryan:

    I did not intend to be a "shot" against you neither to play the prophet but, rather, an application of experience in predicting certain things that happen frequently in similar situations. I would not attempt to offend you or lie about you. I usually don't defend myself from someone who attacked me because he/she thinks I attacked them; these things often all get resolved somehow. The only reason I decided to write this to you is that I don't want you to think that I want to drive you into more confusion.

    Now, I admit that I may be wrong and confess that I have been wrong before, but, on this one I am seldom wrong: One of the first and sheer evidence that one is backsliding into a "self" arranged religion, is their inability to understand and receive the mildest of all friendly admonitions. You said it yourself that you are discovering and resolving certain issues without checking with every scholar in the world. This is good! But I pray that you just did not shut your ears and eyes from everything else that has been explained so often and so repeatedly to experience your own brand of answers. Just keep that in check, please.

    As to me saying "blessings", you know what has been said: "if they don't receive..., may it return to you". I apply "blessings" to that and confess that I need all blessings that I can get, including those that are rejected and return to me...

    Thanks!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    Bryan,

    Chuck asked a good question. Do you believe the Gospels to be God-breathed? Will you be willing to answer the question?
    I believe every one of the 26 books of the NT are God Breathed Scripture, not the book of James. just so there is no other lie about that floating about. Everyone on here knows Chucks tactics, is it that hard to see how many directions this thread has went? Not that Chuck has been the only one.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan,....please refrain from these shouting matches and verbal (fistfight) exchanges.

    Nicholas
    I know Nick, it is only I that am guilty here, huh? I am not shouting at anyone. I know when we talked on the phone you said you didnt see any profit in debating, I had to wonder why you ever would like this forum........it is a debate forum. I am not looking for a verbal fistfight as you accuse me of (another lying assertion) the terms I used were Brandans when he offered to debate Chris, they were and are fair terms........but its different coming from me?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan,........You know well good that we on this forum do not hold to or ever taught a "tri-theistic" Doctrine of God. You may conclude that we do from your lack of understanding (or utter denial), however you just do not understand the doctrine of the Trinity. ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS.

    Please let's not start a debate on the trinity in response to this post.

    Nicholas
    Where does it look to you like I started this subject Nick??
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan,.... The issue of James is totaly irrelevant to your argument!

    Nicholas
    Funny, almost every post I have to answer is yours, glad to see you run to Chuck's aid, he needs it I guess. Your repeated harrassment in this thread is so unnecessary.
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Bryan, ...Please remember one thing here. Whether Brandan is right or wrong on usage of "ad-hominens", you or others are not given a free pass to retaliate in same manner.

    Nicholas
    This is amazing, I point to the posting policies he set up and showed by them how he was displaying violation.............and thats "AD Hominem"? me taking a free pass? This is laughable, the hypocrisy in this thread is dispicable, one of you guys just shut this thread down. I'll bet you consider this all just good Christian conduct though, huh Nick. I could be wrong
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

  18. #38
    Administrator Greg's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
    Surely you saw my debate request in gmail Greg, the Trinity is what I dont believe in, the divinity and humanity of Jesus I do believe in. I believe you are holding to "tri-theistic" doctrine Greg, like the rest.
    Bryan, I couldn't care less what you think about what I believe. The point is, you do know what I and the others on this forum do believe. What I had brought up in my post to you, was that if we used the same logic you used towards WB, we could say, "because you don't believe in the Trinity, nothing you have to say has any relevance." This was simply to show that I saw no difference between the statement you made about WB's post and the way we could treat you. This was not the way we did treat you. However, since that post, you have railed against others, had a chip on your shoulder, and it looks to me - though I could be wrong - that you're very hard-hearted against us.

    I chose not to debate you on the Trinity, because I believe everything that needed to be said, and all that was exposed, had happened in your blog and on the thread that we had here on the forum. I see no reason to debate you on this topic, since I do believe you are in heresy. It appears that you have made up your mind and it isn't my job to convince you. It appears as though you have jumped to a lot of wrong conclusions about many of us here and I think you should probably examine your own motivations in regard to dealing with us instead of just coming out swinging.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    Bryan, I couldn't care less what you think about what I believe. The point is, you do know what I and the others on this forum do believe. What I had brought up in my post to you, was that if we used the same logic you used towards WB, we could say, "because you don't believe in the Trinity, nothing you have to say has any relevance." This was simply to show that I saw no difference between the statement you made about WB's post and the way we could treat you. This was not the way we did treat you. However, since that post, you have railed against others, had a chip on your shoulder, and it looks to me - though I could be wrong - that you're very hard-hearted against us.

    I chose not to debate you on the Trinity, because I believe everything that needed to be said, and all that was exposed, had happened in your blog and on the thread that we had here on the forum. I see no reason to debate you on this topic, since I do believe you are in heresy. It appears that you have made up your mind and it isn't my job to convince you. It appears as though you have jumped to a lot of wrong conclusions about many of us here and I think you should probably examine your own motivations in regard to dealing with us instead of just coming out swinging.
    Okay, you got your last shot in and made it look friendly, could you close my thread now?
    Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
    Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.

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    Moderator Forester07's Avatar
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    Re: Comparison of Jesus' baptism in the 4 gospels

    Bryan,

    With all due respect. Chuck's first post was never addressed. You just passed it off and not even addressing the same subject. Chuck showed that the supposed contridiction is easily remedied. When I read the four passages I see that Matthew gives a little more information that the other three versions. This is not a contridiction but it is possible that Matthew was privy to more information on the conversation between John and Jesus than the other authors were.

    Maybe you are seeing a contridiction because you want to. Maybe your new system is beginning to drive your interpretation of all other scripture and making you find ways to support your Christological views.

    Maybe I'm just not getting it? Spell out the supposed contridiction clearly to me. I just don't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whammer
    Problem #3 is this statement,
    Mt 3:15, (WEB), But Jesus, answering, said to him, \"Allow it now, for this is the fitting way for us to fulfill all righteousness.\" Then he allowed him.

    So how can we make Matthews version harmonize with the others, and how can John's baptism be a fitting way to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    We can discuss interpretation of this verse and what it means by saying "to fulfill all righteousness" You should know most of the interpretations. What do you believe it means? Still, what is your point? Are you seeking clarification? Do you have a agenda or are you trying to promote something? Come out and say what you want out of this thread because from my point of view you have ignored all the good responses and answers people have given without sharing what you believe on these verses and subject except that you feel that there is a contridiciton. All here disagree with you. So make your arguement. Prove your case. Your not doing a good job by the useless banter back and forth between everyone.

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