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Thread: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

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    Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    pdf of the article:
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Wayne sounds like someone who has invested all his intellect into a failing stock and he is just now starting to realize it. I'm sure he will have herds of sheeple that will flock to his aid and lull him back into his religious stupor.


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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Temptation to (my) unbelief comes (to me) in many ways but why so often by seminarians?

    I am willing to test the boundaries of my understanding in things I consider non-essential but worth the test; however Biblical inerrancy due to the delivery by God to his human authors is not something I will ever, D.V., test.

    Had I read Enns (which could not have occurred if, as now, I had read Grudem’s complaint) I would have burned the book at the first temptation to unbelief.

    But even if I had, or as now having read Grudem, my problem is that it takes much longer to weed out the thoughts expressed in the writing than it takes to read them - temptation to unbelief from within the Church should not be - so that even when I read Grudem stating what Enns wrote the “prince of the power of the air” gets at me & the result rings like a once struck bell – a poor memory is sometimes a blessing in regards to details but little help in the overall view: “did God really say?”.

    My advice to me is “be careful what you read!”

    Yet I am grateful for men like Grudem & the fact that he wrote it for the church in general.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    We had a previous thread on the views of Enns regarding scripture (for those of you who have authority to get to it):

    http://www.predestinarian.net/showth...ght=Peter+Enns

    Peter Enns is supportive of the Federal Vision doctrines.

    I will let others comment more for a while before I give you my perspective.

    Sola Gratia,

    Bro. Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Look at the church affiliation of Enns: he is a PCA session elder but attends a Nazarene church! Living out his devotion to Calvinism in eternity (PCA), Arminianism in time (Nazarene).

    http://peterennsonline.com/wordpress...cv%20pages.pdf
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Here is the article written by Enns in the 2003 Westminster Journal:

    http://www.wts.edu/resources/articles/enns_impasse.html

    btw: Enns has already been fired. No surprise here. The impassioned plea by Grudem was grand-standing after he already knew the outcome in advance (whatever you otherwise think of the details of his letter).
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    btw: Enns has already been fired. No surprise here. The impassioned plea by Grudem was grand-standing after he already knew the outcome in advance (whatever you otherwise think of the details of his letter).
    This is not a surprise to me either. The reformed crowd seems to love to wear the M Divs and PhDivs after their name and grandstanding as if their positions are so correct that only a fool would see it in a different way.

    As far as the Van Tillian infralapsarians that grace the so called hallowed halls of of Westminster Seminary, they are no better than Enns and the rest of the FVers. Their idea's of common grace, progressive sanctification, plus a slew of other heresies, and a God that limits Himself because they can't deal with the idea that He has created evil and ALL things for His own purpose and glory are short sighted at best.

    Both parties are apostate IMO and I could care less what they think.

    Though it is fun to watch the fools dance.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    This is not a surprise to me either. The reformed crowd seems to love to wear the M Divs and PhDivs after their name and grandstanding as if their positions are so correct that only a fool would see it in a different way.

    As far as the Van Tillian infralapsarians that grace the so called hallowed halls of of Westminster Seminary, they are no better than Enns and the rest of the FVers. Their idea's of common grace, progressive sanctification, plus a slew of other heresies, and a God that limits Himself because they can't deal with the idea that He has created evil and ALL things for His own purpose and glory are short sighted at best.

    Both parties are apostate IMO and I could care less what they think.

    Though it is fun to watch the fools dance.
    I have thought (for ex) Eph 4:13 is "progressive sanctification". Please help me to understand your meaning of the phrase.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahlseide View Post
    "progressive sanctification". Please help me to understand your meaning of the phrase.
    Robert,...In most Christian circles especially Arminian, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Weslyan Methodist, and all others who believe a "regenerate born again person" can somehow lose or repudiate salvation and their end is hell, they would understand "progressive sanctification" to mean that the inherent old nature of man is becoming less sinful and becoming more sinless.

    This meaning, I and others on this forum deny as false.

    There are many threads that deal with this issue. If you cannot find or access them, let us know.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Here is one recent thread on the sanctification issue:

    http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=5573
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    .......The reformed crowd seems to love to wear the M Divs and PhDivs after their name and grandstanding as if their positions are so correct that only a fool would see it in a different way.
    I group these in the same camp as the "Liberal Intelligentsia"--which is an oxymoron in my book---thinking themselves as the modern American aristocracy who knows better than the common folk...... vive la revolucion!

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by rlhuckle View Post
    I group these in the same camp as the "Liberal Intelligentsia"--which is an oxymoron in my book---thinking themselves as the modern American aristocracy who knows better than the common folk...... vive la revolucion!
    YES, YES, YES!!! I couldn't agree more! Religious self appointed overseers of the common day churchgoers. They are pharisees and apostate to the core!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Apostle Paul
    Rom 1:21-22, (NASB)
    21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

    1 Cor 1:18-21, (NASB)
    18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
    19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside."
    20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
    21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
    They don't get it. Praise be to God that he has set some aside that do!
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    I am amazed at the simplicity of the Gospel and how those professing to be wise don't see it. It is absolutely amazing!
    This is my signature.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nicholas View Post
    Robert,...In most Christian circles especially Arminian, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Weslyan Methodist, and all others who believe a "regenerate born again person" can somehow lose or repudiate salvation and their end is hell, they would understand "progressive sanctification" to mean that the inherent old nature of man is becoming less sinful and becoming more sinless.

    This meaning, I and others on this forum deny as false.

    There are many threads that deal with this issue. If you cannot find or access them, let us know.

    Nicholas
    Whew! No need; I deny, deny, deny it also. Salvation has no meaning whatever even the unregenerate can understand that; that was my case; I new well the T by my Lutheran "we are by nature sinful & unclean" & understood the P by common meaning of words; so in a sense I had the bookends T&P even then.

    Thanks for the clarification.

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    Re: Grudem's Letter to Westminster Seminary Re: Peter Enns

    Alright, here is my perspective on this.

    Grudem certainly raises valid concerns on the matter of Enns' skeptical views regarding much of the biblical text. For myself, I hold to a simple doctrine of Bible inerrancy that is less scientific than the Chicago statement. However, like most of those in the 'evangelical and Reformed' tradition, Grudem entirely misses the point on the core issue of hermeneutics. Enns has a faulty view of the reliability of scripture because he has an entirely erroneous perspective on the core message of God's revelation. His 'Christotelic' hermeneutic is NOT the Christo-centric gospel hermeneutic of Luther; it is a view of Christ as the end that fails to understand the supremacy of the apostolic revelation of the gospel given to Paul and afterward to the rest of the apostles. Paul was not taught his gospel by any man (even another apostle), he received it by revelation from Jesus Christ Himself. This gospel is the core message and goal of all God's revelation in past ages. Most importantly, it authenticates the whole of scripture as reliable and without erroneous teaching. Without it no complete understanding of the scope, value, and purpose of God's revelation would be possible.

    So the Federal Vision theology of Enns (which denies the Christocentric hermeneutic of the finality of Paul's gospel and instead returns to the Old Covenant) disqualifies him as a valid exponent of biblical authority. NOT merely the fact that he doesn't conform to the Chicago statement on inerrancy, to which many subscribers believe no gospel at all.

    I'm sure that Grudem would be just as quick to call those of us with a Christo-centric view of the scope of the Bible (which Calvin held to as much as Luther, though he contradicted his own position in the French Confession) false teachers just like Enns.

    Bro. Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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