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Thread: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

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    John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    Last week the ELCA met in Minneapolis to vote on an amendment to allow gay/lesbian pastors. The irony is that they were meeting at Central lutheran in Minneapolis and voting for the amendment at the convention center downtown Minneapolis, a non violent thundershower produced a few small tornadoes which tore the steeple off Central Lutheran and damaged the roof of the convention center.

    John Piper had some comments regarding this in his baptist blog.

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/print...y.asp?ID=31109

    What are your thoughts?
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    Last week the ELCA met in Minneapolis to vote on an amendment to allow gay/lesbian pastors. The irony is that they were meeting at Central lutheran in Minneapolis and voting for the amendment at the convention center downtown Minneapolis, a non violent thundershower produced a few small tornadoes which tore the steeple off Central Lutheran and damaged the roof of the convention center.

    John Piper had some comments regarding this in his baptist blog.

    http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/print...y.asp?ID=31109

    What are your thoughts?
    Piper is once again spot on in some areas and not in others. He has always affirmed this. I believe he wrote the same thing about Katrina, I may be wrong, but I vaguely remember reading something like that.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    A one-time close friend of mine from years past is an ELCA pastor; he is one of the few in that denomination who has a 'growing' and 'prosperous' church in that 'religious left' sect because of an incorporation of the 'seeker-sensitivity' principles of evangelicalism (which typically gathers in added numbers of unregenerate souls). I really can't say when (if ever) I will contact him to ask what he thinks of his church approving practicing homosexuals in the liberal skeptic ministry of condemnation. Primarily because I think the ruling is irrelevant; if you LIVE LIKE hell in rejection of the true gospel you GO TO hell. God has sent another strong delusion upon another apostate whore-church which He had already filled with reprobate souls.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    When Piper states,

    The unrepentant practice of homosexual behavior (like other sins) will exclude a person from the kingdom of God.
    I leaves me thinking about all the sins we aren't consciously aware of. Or, how about the sin of not glorifying God 100%, 100% of the time? Surely no Saint has completely repented of that? If there is, I would love to meet him or her. I'm sure they could give me a few pointers! Besides, I thought the biblical position on salvation was that it was something wrought for, through and in Christ - completely independent of the efforts of the sinner?

    It seems, with Piper's second point, he journeys headlong into a contradiction made with his first point...

    As for his sixth point, he claims it was a gentle yet firm warning against the church. What about "the other minor to moderate damage to some of the city, including a middle school"? Was this a dual judgement of sorts?

    Just some observations...

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    Re: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    The problem I have with equating homosexuality with most other 'sinful behaviors' is that I don't know many homosexuals who agree that their desire for others of the same sex is sinful. In other words they disagree with God's clear condemnation of that behavior.

    This does not somehow make homosexuality "less sinful" then say, fornication, for example. But the reality is one could practice fornication for a time, marry that person and no longer have to worry about committing the sinful action. But God does not make any provision for the continuance of homosexual behavior.

    On a side note, if I remember correctly God actually made a provision for those (under the old covenant) who fornicate to make it right by marrying that person before the next day. I'll look it up and post the reference to that in the OT.

    All that being said I would like to say amen to what Scott posted.


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    Re: John Piper & gays in the ELCA

    Mickey: God does not make any provision for the continuance of homosexual behavior.

    Exactly right! In the same manner, God makes no provision for a continuance in adultery, theft, greed, or any other behavior that He has commanded against.

    The issue today, of course, is a refusal by a massive number of persons and organizations to recognize that God condemns a particular behavior. If an orientation condemned by God is entertained as 'right' in any sense, the behavior resulting from that lust will always be justified and those engaged in it will continue to covet an ever-increasing validation from society. But once someone with a wrong orientation agrees with God that a certain sin must be shunned totally and forever, resolving the mental issues as to why such a person is drawn to such behavior becomes a far simpler exercise!

    There is no question that God can turn a practicing homosexual into a 100% practicing heterosexual by His regenerating power! If God can't do that, He can't do anything.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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