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    Warning Passages

    I do not believe the warning passages of scripture have been discussed here in a while. There is no need to look at them again as a whole, since they all present the same argument. So what are the thoughts here again regarding these scriptures?

    My thoughts as of late are thus:

    1) they are the actual means God has ordained to preserve the elect.


    2) Written to mixed congregations and given to those who are not adhering to their said profession of faith to the truth.

    3) And certainly spoken of the reprobate who do not persevere in the faith.

    Any other thoughts?
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Joe,

    Why don't you post your 3 best examples so we can know the exact type of warning passages you are referring to. Scriptural warnings are given to different persons/groups and in differing contexts.

    Thanks, --Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Joe,

    Why don't you post your 3 best examples so we can know the exact type of warning passages you are referring to. Scriptural warnings are given to different persons/groups and in differing contexts.

    Thanks, --Bob
    Bob, I did not have 3 specific examples in mind. I think that all could be lumped into a group that speaks of conditionalism. My 3 answers were just general statements regarding warning passages as a whole regarding losing ones salvation. I should have been clear on this in the OP. Exhortation to keep the faith, etc etc etc, the 'if' statements in general.

    I also want to be clear I do not for one second believe a blood bought child of God will lose their promised inheritance.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Ok. I would like to start by asking this question to all posters. Is the following passage classified as a 'warning against apostasy' by most expositors really a 'warning passage' at all; why or why not? I am most interested in responses to this question.

    Heb 6:1-20, (NASB)
    Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, "I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you." And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute.
    In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Warning Passages

    In a nutshell, this passage is not a "warning passage" against apostasy as most would have it to be. It is about the unregenerate Jews who continued on in the "dead works" of the ceremonial law. They continued on in their hatred for the Christ and in their ignorance of the righteousness which comes from God.
    Col 2:9, (NASB), For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form

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    Re: Warning Passages

    My opinion (which is worth nothing) is that I have little to no confidence that 'The Epistle to the Hebrews' is scripture, so I do not care what it says.

    Not to mention it's a federal offense to read other peoples mail!


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    Re: Warning Passages

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Ok. I would like to start by asking this question to all posters. Is the following passage classified as a 'warning against apostasy' by most expositors really a 'warning passage' at all; why or why not? I am most interested in responses to this question.

    Heb 6:1-20, (NASB)
    Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, "I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you." And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute.
    In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
    I don’t think it is a warning passage to the elect but a comparison passage. I think the ‘us’ that are to press on to maturity are the elect of God that are being addressed and they press on to maturity because they have been taught AND believe the truth of the Gospel of Grace, (with a conscience purged from dead works Heb 9:14), they are the ones for which the rains fall (for whom it was intended) and produce a blessing, the ones who are the heirs of the promise and the ones who have taken refuge in the hope set before us which is SURE AND STEADFAST! (our High Priest, Christ)

    The ‘those’ are others (individuals or assemblies) who have heard the truth and yet the rain wasn’t intended for them and therefore did not bring forth a blessing, instead it brought forth thorns and thistles (apostasy), much like the passage in 1 John 2:19.

    Eileen~
    "To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Ok. I would like to start by asking this question to all posters. Is the following passage classified as a 'warning against apostasy' by most expositors really a 'warning passage' at all; why or why not? I am most interested in responses to this question.

    .
    I spent a year in Pink's Exposition of Hebrews; I'll go with him. Also I heard a series of tapes many years ago on Hebrews (I gave the tapes away - shame on me), that made the case to my satisfaction that Paul was the penman. And further more, that in the garden the cup Jesus asked to be removed was a soul attack by Satan so severe he wondered if he might die there, ( I have more to say on that but not here) & his prayer was answered & he proceeded to the cross to be punished for my sin by God. He did not pray to avoid the cross, but the reverse, he prayed to get to the cross: those tapes on Hebrews were the start for me.

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahlseide View Post
    I spent a year in Pink's Exposition of Hebrews; I'll go with him. Also I heard a series of tapes many years ago on Hebrews (I gave the tapes away - shame on me), that made the case to my satisfaction that Paul was the penman. And further more, that in the garden the cup Jesus asked to be removed was a soul attack by Satan so severe he wondered if he might die there, ( I have more to say on that but not here) & his prayer was answered & he proceeded to the cross to be punished for my sin by God. He did not pray to avoid the cross, but the reverse, he prayed to get to the cross: those tapes on Hebrews were the start for me.
    Brother, GREAT POINTS, I also believe that Jesus was praying to GET THE CROSS! However, let me introduce to all that Jesus' prayer was not a prayer for God to relieve Him from the Cross, but, He prayed that prayer in the moment He was "sweating as drops of blood" and was "anguished even unto death", which could be that He was prematurely dying (remember the phrase: The Spirit is ready but the flesh is weak?). Jesus knew and often proclaimed His death in detail and knew, since His birth, the mode of His death. So, Jesus was REALLY praying to GET THE CROSS. Just consider that possibility. In Luke 4, Satan had already offered Him opportunities to "show His power", to "receive back creation" without any sacrifice and He refused!

    As to the issue here, I have seen God giving warnings, either to His servants or not, just to cause His elect to obey Him to the fullest. Note the promise that Paul received in the dream and compare with the events in the shipwreck: Paul had already received the promise that "all that were with him" (funny, he was being taken and says, "all with me") were not die, but they had to really stay with him. God used WARNINGS to cause men to, even if forcibly, maintain His Sovereign and unbreakable promise.

    Let me read the text proposed to Bob again. It is indeed a text used by some proponents of "lose salvation" error and deserves another look on my part before I answer the question.

    Thanks!
    Milt
    Sovereign Grace - Predestination of All Things
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    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: Warning Passages

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Ok. I would like to start by asking this question to all posters. Is the following passage classified as a 'warning against apostasy' by most expositors really a 'warning passage' at all; why or why not? I am most interested in responses to this question.

    Heb 6:1-20, (NASB)
    Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, "I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you." And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For men swear by one greater than themselves and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute.
    In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
    This fits #2 in my OP. It is a mixed congregation. Wheat and Tares. You notice the writers shift from the third to the second person. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you. The warning is explicitly given to those who are not mature and mixing OC with NC. Also, when it speaks of it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, this is pointing to a brother, another man leading them back to repentance. This must be said because nothing is impossible for God. The writer is saying "There is nothing more I can do, I will leave it to God.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
    GALATIANS 5:22

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