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Thread: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

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    What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    1Ti 3:15 but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.




    It seems that this verse states that the house of God is the Church of the only living God, which is the pillar and ground of truth.

    The question then arises:

    If a building full of people is not teaching the truth about the living God (Jesus) can that building and group of people be called a Church (the house of the living God)?

    For example if a group of people meeting in a building teach and believe that one must do something in addition to the work that Christ did on the Cross before they can be regenerated, could this group be called a church as defined in the word of God?

    This leads to the another question:

    Are there any untruths that can be taught or believed by any group and still be considered a Church according to Godís word?
    For The Truth Shall Set You Free

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    Truth can only be revealed by God and the conscience is convicted of it by the testimony of the Holy Spirit. The revelation of truth is progressive--one does not recieve it ALL in ONE lump sum.

    Christ said the tares would grow with the wheat in the physical realm; in any congregation there will be a mix.

    However, the true "church" is a spiritual body, NOT a physical body. This spiritual body is the pillar and ground of the truth.

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    The EKKLESIA or bride of Christ is not a building full of people, not a collection of 'conservative evangelical' non-profit corporations, not a historical organized institution of any sort. It is the universal company of all the elect redeemed in Christ and is manifested on the present Earth whenever two or more of these elect souls are gathered together in fellowship. It's ultimate manifestation will come to fruition when all of the redeemed elect are gathered in the New Earth.

    Presently, if there is no serious and visible fellowship between elect believers occurring within the strict teaching of NT gospel doctrine, there is no biblical EKKLESIA.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    ... when all of the redeemed elect are gathered in the New Earth.
    ...
    I just love the sound of that phrase: come quickly Lord Jesus.

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    My understanding of the word church is that it is used in two ways in the NT. First, I see it being used in an Universal way, meaning all true believers in Christ has a whole around the world. Second, I see it used in a geographic area, where some of the true believers meet or live, like the church at Rome. Ether way, for it to be a true church, it has to be made up of true believers and NT doctrine. There's always tares growing among the wheat.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    John: Second, I see it used in a geographic area, where some of the true believers meet or live, like the church at Rome. Ether way, for it to be a true church, it has to be made up of true believers and NT doctrine.

    As one who denies the doctrine of 'church' in contrast with EKKLESIA, I just have to ask this question. Are a husband and wife worshipping the God of the true gospel at home in the apostle's doctrine, fellowship, the scriptures, the breaking of bread, and prayer as much the EKKLESIA as ANY other larger assembly doing the same?

    There's always tares growing among the wheat.

    Does the parable of the wheat and tares refer to the EKKLESIA or the world in general? Christ states that 'the field is the world.'
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    John: Second, I see it used in a geographic area, where some of the true believers meet or live, like the church at Rome. Ether way, for it to be a true church, it has to be made up of true believers and NT doctrine.

    As one who denies the doctrine of 'church' in contrast with EKKLESIA, I just have to ask this question. Are a husband and wife worshipping the God of the true gospel at home in the apostle's doctrine, fellowship, the scriptures, the breaking of bread, and prayer as much the EKKLESIA as ANY other larger assembly doing the same?

    There's always tares growing among the wheat.

    Does the parable of the wheat and tares refer to the EKKLESIA or the world in general? Christ states that 'the field is the world.'
    I suppose that the true church would not have tares in it, but around it growing with the wheat. The true church is in the world, but not of it.

    As for the first part of your question, you will have to define, for me, the difference between church and Ekklesia. Do the two words have a different meaning?

    If I'm not careful, I might learn something.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    John,

    'Church' is an absolute and gross mistranslation of the Greek EKKLESIA. It should be dropped from the 'Christian' vocabulary. Rather than explain the etymology in detail right now I will refer to the following link:

    http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b...ry/037386.html

    The bottom line is; 'church' refers to a religious institution exercising lordship over its subjects. The EKKLESIA of the New Testament is nothing of this sort.

    Whenever I bring this up to any 'evangelical' scholar, I'm told that "you're stuck with church as a word like you're stuck with Jesus." Well, such persons are indeed stuck with the word according to their tradition--NOT I BUT THEY!!

    The EKKLESIA of the NT is a congregation, assembly, company, fellowship, congress, senate, etc. of elect believers. It exists in full where 2 or more of God's elect are gathered in Christ's name--as much in the home as in any assembly of a larger number of elect.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: What Does God Say About What A Church Is?

    Thanks, Bob. I will check out the link.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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