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Thread: A knowable God?

  1. #21
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    That's true Twonky, God has given us more than enough proof of his existance. Besides, if he is the creator of the universe, why does he have to prove anything to us.

    questian, you seem to have a lot of anger and hostility, has something happened to you in the past?

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    Twonky,
    So what does God look like?

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    Originally posted by questian
    So what does God look like?
    How would I know that?

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    Twonky,
    You said God had been revealing himself to you all along. So what did you see other than birds and trees?

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    He's really bright.

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    Originally posted by questian
    Twonky,
    You said God had been revealing himself to you all along. So what did you see other than birds and trees?
    So the only way to have something revealed to you is by seeing it?

  7. #27
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    JH,

    He's really bright.
    Not necessarily.

    He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him-- the dark rain clouds of the sky. (Psalm 18:11)

    Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. (1 Kings 8:12)

    He has made me dwell in darkness like those long dead. (Lamentations 3:6)


    Nitzsche was right.

  8. #28
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    He's really bright.


    I just realized that probably looked like a sarcastic slant towards questian.

    It was in answer to the question, What does GOd look like?

    Answer: He is really bright.

  9. #29
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    Any time in the Bible where someone reports actually seeing God, there is a very bright light. The verses you posted were somewhat metaphorical, keep reading though, and I think you'll see what I mean.

  10. #30
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    Twonky,

    There are five senses we know of. Whatever exists in the universe comes to us through them. If you can't see, hear, smell, taste, or touch it, you don't know it's there. All else is an illusion.

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    JH,
    Why isn't seeing a bright light also considered metaphorical?

  12. #32
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    because the scriptures you named are not accounts of people actually seeing God. When people actually saw him, mostly in the old testament, then in Acts with Paul, they reported seeing a bright light.

    Keep reading, you'll see what I'm talking about.

  13. #33
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    Just because Questian or Smugg or even I have not found the kind of comprehensible proof that we are looking for does not mean that it is not out there. You all claim to trust in God and have great faith in Him; put some of that faith in His ability to reveal Himself to each person in the way that person can accept it.

    This is much more than a mere debate to me. I am having the same questions and conflicts that Q and S are, I just have not thrown God out. And I cannot even give you a good rational reason why I have not done that yet. So instead of bickering with each other, help me find the answers I need. I have at least a tiny grain of faith, but I need more to get me through. The anger and defensiveness I hear is not coming from our resident skeptics, they are quite good at remaining calm most of the time, it is coming from us when they don't accept our answers.

    Sorry to get emotional, but this is important to me. And maybe it is important to others who visit this board. "Just the facts, ma'am."

  14. #34
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    I would assume that we all if we are honest have questions and doubts, we can all work through them together.


    As far as prior conversation on this board,...well it is a debate board. Smugg and Questian have both stated that they are not neccessarrilly looking for answers, therfore, if noone were here to debate with them they would have no reason to be here.

    I do hope that my words haven't seemed angry or rude, they weren't meant in that way. It is very hard to express emotion through written text.

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    Wink

    On the second page, people were questioning why someone who is a skeptic is here at all, absolving themselves of Q and S's blood, asking who was wasting their time, and suggesting that one debaters issues stem from their past. This is not debating the issues, it is getting personal. Thus the reason for my last post and for the quote I posted, "Just the facts, Ma'am."

    JH, this isn't an emotion board, it is a debate board, unless we are debating emotions now.

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    If the Vulcans in Star Trek have anything to teach us, it's that emotions need not be eliminated, but must be mastered, especially when it comes to decision making. They are a poor judge of reality and dangerous in times of crisis. The best Christians I've met are the ones who empathize for those in need and don't take their religion too seriously.

    Universe,
    I'm trying to get everyone to look past all the feel-good stuff they think God is about and take a critical look at why they believe a certain way. Why can't God submit to a logical test as well as an emotional faith test? If God is infinite, his being should permeate not only the sacred but the profane as well, don't you agree?

    JH,
    Tell me what YOU see. Is yours a bright light?

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    Originally posted by questian
    There are five senses we know of. Whatever exists in the universe comes to us through them. If you can't see, hear, smell, taste, or touch it, you don't know it's there. All else is an illusion.
    Do you love anyone? How do you know people love you? Is it because what your 5 senses tell you about them? If so, what needs to happen for you to feel love from someone?

    You're limiting yourself when you judge all around you by what you can see, hear, smell, taste or touch. I love my children with all my heart, that is definately NOT an illusion and I definately feel love from them as well.

  18. #38
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    Originally posted by questian
    Why can't God submit to a logical test as well as an emotional faith test?
    I'm sure he can. What kind of test did you have in mind?

  19. #39
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    Universe said:
    On the second page, people were questioning why someone who is a skeptic is here at all, absolving themselves of Q and S's blood, asking who was wasting their time, and suggesting that one debaters issues stem from their past. This is not debating the issues, it is getting personal. Thus the reason for my last post and for the quote I posted, "Just the facts, Ma'am."


    woops. My adolescent egocentrism was coming back to haunt me, I thought you were talking about me. I looked back and you were right, some people had made some comments To Q and S that shouldn't have been said. I enjoy their company here on the board.


    Questian asked:
    JH,
    Tell me what YOU see. Is yours a bright light?

    Nah, I saw my dad stop drinking after 30 years of hardcore addiction. He had been in and out of jail, lost everything. He did AA, detox, everything he could, but he couldn't quit. One day he went to church and came back saying God had healed him. I thought he was full of crap, as I had saw him quit 1000 times, and didn't believe in God anyway. Well, 10 years later, and he hasn't touched a drop. I realized at that point that something of power was out there. Thus, my search began.

  20. #40
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    Twonky,
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but what you consider love is only your interpretation of composite actions and observed behavior. Love is an abstract concept and not one that can be quantified. I cannot hold a love-detector device between you and your children and measure the love waves traveling back and forth or tell you what "love" looks or feels like. If you give one child a gift and another a beating, the child receiving the gift will interpret your action as love while the other will interpret your action as something other than love. It is all in the perception of the individual. This is the kind of logical test I am talking about.

    JH,
    Not to minimize your situation, but people recover from addiction all the time without any sort of religious experience. Did he engage in any sort of treatment program in the meantime that might also be a factor in his turnaround or did he quit cold-turkey one day? This may be a substance abuse success story, but this is no picture of God you are presenting. Also take into account the traumatic emotional life yours has been and consider whether you would be a Muslim today if he had recovered in a mosque instead of a church.

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