Pristine Grace
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 3
Results 41 to 53 of 53

Thread: A knowable God?

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    289
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    No recovery program at the time. As said before, he was in AA and all for years before this, but had given up on all that years prior to his experience. Cold-turkey. That is from drinking a fifth of vodka EVERY day up until I was sixteen to never touching it again in one day. Pretty impressive.

    The deal was though, I didn't go to church immediately. I think it kind of scared me that I had lived my life totally for myself and then had to face that there was something larger. But I did begin searching. I went through all the major religions, and a lot of the side ones. Rastafari was actually my choice for a couple of years. The more I searched, though, the more I realized that Christianity was the real deal and there was nothing else like it. On top of that, I found out that it wasn't even a religion, which I was happy about because I had so many hang-ups with organized religion.

    You can say that is not a picture of God if you like, but you asked what I saw, and I told you. Keep your eyes open. God is revealling himself everywhere but too often we have our eyes closed.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Originally posted by questian
    Twonky,
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but what you consider love is only your interpretation of composite actions and observed behavior.
    No bad news here. I understand the logical assessment of love. Would you care to answer the questions though?

    I cannot hold a love-detector device between you and your children and measure the love waves traveling back and forth or tell you what "love" looks or feels like. If you give one child a gift and another a beating, the child receiving the gift will interpret your action as love while the other will interpret your action as something other than love. It is all in the perception of the individual. This is the kind of logical test I am talking about.
    Yes very logical. So are you saying that by receiving a gift you are loved and by getting punished you aren't loved?

    Do you feel that your parents didn't love you when you were being punished?

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Twonky,
    You seem really stuck on my childhood, my past, or anything else to explain why I think this way. Mine was a normal, church-going, small-town family with nothing in the way of abuse or disfunction. I was active in the church up until last year when I really started investigating all that Christianity claims to be and have rejected most of what I was indoctrinated with.

    What I consider "love" is as I stated, an interpretation of observed behavior. If my wife kisses me, I feel love. If she were to kiss another man, I would most likely feel jealousy, betrayal or anger. Her behavior does not change, only how I interpret it. The same thing applies with other abstract concepts that cannot be directly observed or measured; such is God.

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    289
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Maybe you lost me here, but you talked about her kissing you, and then kissing another man and called that the same behavior?

    Nevermind, I don't even get the point of the argument taking place right now.

  5. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    75
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Originally posted by questian
    Twonky,
    You seem really stuck on my childhood, my past, or anything else to explain why I think this way.
    I was simply using the parent/child relationship as an example, I wasn't intending to address YOUR specific situation.

    I definately don't subscribe to the 'avoid the question by focusing on the past' tactic, so if it looks like that, I apologize.

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    15
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Are we really debating love? Love is the intangible evidence of anothers action. But love begins in the heart. I believe it to be a spiritual experience based on interpretation. You can't hold a tri-corder up to a person's face and measure it. I have thought I was loved by a man who was not only cheating on me, but telling her he loved her and wanted to get rid of me, but when I was with him, he told me and showed me how much he "loved" me!! No one can ever really know the truth in a person's heart. The divorce rate can attest to that!! Even stalkers can show and express love!

    But God is knowable......to a certain degree. In as much as He is willing to be revealed. No different than any one of us. I have more than one side to my personality.....in my professional life, I act, speak and think in a professional manner. I am still me, but I am different with close friends and family. While in the company of close friends and family, I may be more relaxed. I'm not so worried if there is spinach in my teeth, or if my hair is not exactly perfect, I may not even wear make-up!

    God revealed himself to me in His own time. I asked Him to show me how a God (the father) is different from the father I knew. The father I knew was weak, a liar, a child exploiter and finally....non-existing. He didn't care about me or my siblings. But God showed me that things with Him were different. I have to admit, I had a hard time calling God,Father, after all...the father I had was scary and I hated him! He didn't reveal himself to me all in one day, and I'm still learning about the nature of God. He is knowable, you just have to search him out!

    I have since re-established a new relationship with my father, based on forgiveness. He is no longer the man I knew as a child. Forgiving him was the literal key to my sanity. God helped me to do that. Jesus Christ helped me to do that. God even used my husband to help me do that.

    Keep searching gentlemen....it's worth the journey!!!!!!!
    The Jesus Freak

  7. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    194
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Originally posted by JesusFreak2K1
    Are we really debating love? Love is the intangible evidence of anothers action. But love begins in the heart.
    The heart is a hollow, pumplike organ of blood circulation, composed mainly of rhythmically contractile smooth muscle, located in the chest between the lungs and slightly to the left and consisting of four chambers: a right atrium that receives blood returning from the body via the superior and inferior vena cavae, a right ventricle that pumps the blood through the pulmonary artery to the lungs for oxygenation, a left atrium that receives the oxygenated blood via the pulmonary veins and passes it through the mitral valve, and a left ventricle that pumps the oxygenated blood, via the aorta, throughout the body.

    Let's be clear here: love starts in the brain.

    Love is a much debated concept: Schopenhauer felt that romantic love was just two people recognizing in each other the ability to produce healthy offspring. At the very least, love might just be an attempt by people to rationalize their desire to keep a particular person in their life because of their desirable qualities.

    There are other types of love, of course: we say we love our children, but many species of animal exhibit protectiveness of their offspring and are they truly expressing love?

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    330
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Ex-Christian?

    questian, you were never born again to begin with. And yes, i will leave this thread becos it's just a waste of time. You have already made it clear that you are not here to seek God but just to nit-pick the Bible and give smart-alex rebuttals and circular reasoning. I can tolerate skeptics that want to truly seek the truth but you are just not one of those. The spirit of the anti-Christ speaks thru you.

    Anyway, Paul never bothered to debate with the thorn in his flesh.

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    194
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Originally posted by Andrew
    Ex-Christian?

    questian, you were never born again to begin with.
    In other words, not a real Christian.

    And yes, i will leave this thread becos it's just a waste of time. You have already made it clear that you are not here to seek God but just to nit-pick the Bible and give smart-alex rebuttals and circular reasoning. I can tolerate skeptics that want to truly seek the truth but you are just not one of those.
    Apparently, you're not a real skeptic, either. Brother Andrew has high standards, I think.

    The spirit of the anti-Christ speaks thru you.
    Sure, but is it a real anti-Christ?

    Anyway, Paul never bothered to debate with the thorn in his flesh.

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Between Colorado and Texas
    Posts
    85
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Wink

    Point. Game. Match. To the skeptics.
    ROTFL

  11. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    15
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Smugg- I feel sorry for you. Love is all in your head. You seem to need tangible proof for everything. How sad!
    When you meet Jesus in heaven and you will, you will be humbled. You will realize in an instant how trivial you have been. It will be like an arrow piercing through your heart, and it will be too late.
    Let me ask you this.......If you were planning on taking a trip to a foreign country, would you plan ahead? Would you study the culture? Learn about the local laws?
    I wish I could plea with you to search with all your heart AND your mind. It is my prayer for you that God will reveal Himself to you, in a way that will be unmistakeable.
    He DOES love you. Jesus died for you. Even if you were the only one here. I love you too. I just want to help, but I don't know how. Any way....that's my 2 cents.
    The Jesus Freak

  12. #52
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    121
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    70
    Thanked in
    45 Posts
    Andrew, why get upset because a skeptic doesn't see things your way. I'm convinced the only way people will come to know and understand God is to see Him in our lives, not in our words.

    As you all know, I don't spend much time on the skeptic debate board. I don't think it's a waste of time, it's just that it's not at the top of my priorities...

    Smugg and questian have done nothing wrong here, and I think it is wrong to say they AREN'T seeking. We don't know what is going on in a man's heart, irregardless of the words that might be formed through their keyboard.

    Smugg, questian, and all you other lurker skeptics, I urge you to stick around, read what we have to say, and be patient with Christians who are judgemental and frustrated with you. A good chunk of the time, people who represent Christianity don't understand enough of their faith to truly represent it. I have met Atheists who understood the flow and the teachings of the Bible much better than those who profess to be born again.

    There are different theologies within the realm of Christianity. I think you might learn a lot about the differences in Christian philosophy if you stick around...

    Also, if you ever have any questions, or comments, feel free to contact me privately or publicly, and I'll be happy to address your concerns.

    Thanks for sticking around guys, your perspective on life and it's events is much appreciated.

    Brandan
    This is my signature.

  13. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    "THE hymn had engaged my attention; when it was over I had time to take stock of the congregation. They were chiefly farmers- fat, very well-to-do folk, who had come some of them with their wives and children from outlying farms two and three miles away; haters of popery and of anything which anyone might choose to say was popish; good, sensible fellows who detested theory of any kind, whose ideal was the maintenance of the status quo with perhaps a loving reminiscence of old war times, and a sense of wrong that the weather was not more completely under their control, who desired higher prices and cheaper wages, but otherwise were most contented when things were changing least; tolerators, if not lovers, of all that was familiar, haters of all that was unfamiliar; they would have been equally horrified at hearing the Christian religion doubted, and at seeing it practised."

    - Samuel Butler, Way of All Flesh

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst ... 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •