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Thread: The Middle East

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    The Middle East

    This thread will be for discussing different aspects of the middle east and the outlying Arab countries.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: The Middle East

    Ze Frank: The History of Afghanistan in 3 Minutes


    http://www.time.com/time/video/playe...931954,00.html
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: The Middle East

    Mohammed jihad allah?

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    Re: The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly_Gaunt_Cow View Post
    Mohammed jihad allah?
    No!
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    Re: The Middle East

    I personally am strongly in favor of military support of Israel, for none of the reasons that dispensationalists urge upon us. I do not believe any of the nonsense about Israel being in covenant with God or that a nation's treatment of Israel corresponds to its treatment of Jesus Christ. Here are my reasons for the support of Israel:

    1. It is the last and only nation in the region founded upon SOME basis of government of, by, and for the people (certainly not comprehensive and perfect). The Carter administration threw Iran under the bus (the only other former government in the region with ANY democratic basis)--just as Kennedy through the government that had successfully defended South Vietnam under the bus.

    2. If Israel is destroyed and the whole Mideast (North Africa included, and other regions of Asia) is controlled by Islamic government, another world war starting in Europe is inevitable. The radical Muslims already have their war-making communities well-planted throughout Europe. It will be much more horrible than any war we have seen in the past. It is very important to understand the global priorities of Islam and its incremental methodology of attempted world dominion. All of the Mideast Muslim nations will quickly develop nuclear weapons (especially tactical battlefield and terrorist small nukes) once Israel is wiped out.

    That is my take on it.

    --Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    Does supporting Israel mean the U.S. must keep Israel afloat with billions of taxpayer dollars every year? Does supporting Israel mean the U.S. must sacrifice its blood and treasure by fighting wars with every country in the world that poses an existential threat to Israel? Does supporting Israel mean U.S. interests must become the target of every Islamic or Arab terrorist group in the world? If yes, is the potential reward worth the price?

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    Re: The Middle East

    Dan: Does supporting Israel mean the U.S. must keep Israel afloat with billions of taxpayer dollars every year?

    No. Israel must be forced to pay for more of its own defense through cuts in the U.S. defense budget that funds their military, just as other nations the U.S. has been over-funding must start paying for a larger portion of their own defense (in the case of Europe and Japan, ALL of their own defense). But we need to sell Israel the weaponry it needs and supply troops should an emergency situation arise.

    Does supporting Israel mean the U.S. must sacrifice its blood and treasure by fighting wars with every country in the world that poses an existential threat to Israel?

    No, just those that pose an immanent threat that obviously may result in the destruction of Israel.

    Does supporting Israel mean U.S. interests must become the target of every Islamic or Arab terrorist group in the world?

    That is a question that the Islamic and Arab terrorist groups have to answer, not the U.S.

    If yes, is the potential reward worth the price?

    Another question that the radical Muslims have to answer, not the U.S. Radical Islam is equal to communism as a threat to world peace, so the U.S. cannot afford to back down one iota in a proper strategy to defeat it.

    Luther wrote very decisively about the fact that nations cannot fail to defend themselves against radical Islam. In spite of the fact that he also stated God uses Islam to judge the awful sins of the West.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Israel must be forced to pay for more of its own defense through cuts in the U.S. defense budget that funds their military, just as other nations the U.S. has been over-funding must start paying for a larger portion of their own defense (in the case of Europe and Japan, ALL of their own defense). But we need to sell Israel the weaponry it needs and supply troops should an emergency situation arise.
    We shouldn't have to pay other countries for the right to defend them against their enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Radical Islam is equal to communism as a threat to world peace, so the U.S. cannot afford to back down one iota in a proper strategy to defeat it.

    Luther wrote very decisively about the fact that nations cannot fail to defend themselves against radical Islam. In spite of the fact that he also stated God uses Islam to judge the awful sins of the West.
    The beginning of a proper strategy to defeat radical Islam is to stop offending the Triune God by idolatry. The first and most important commandment of God is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

    During the congressionally mandated "Day of Prayer" following 9/11 and Katrina, President Bush urged Americans to pray to Allah. The Supreme Court has never rebuked congress or the President for their abuse of power and violation of U.S. Constitution. President Obama has never rescinded President Bush's establishment of an Islamic religion. Conclusion: America bends the knee to Allah.

    President Bush's war on radical Islam was a dismal failure. He allowed Bin Laden and his cohorts to escape into Pakistan. He presided over a quagmire in Afghanistan. He invaded Iraq which greatly strengthened radical Islam and depleted the treasury.

    President Obama has fared no better than President Bush. He is being forced to introduce more troops into a Vietnam-like quagmire in Afghanistan in order to stave off a humiliating defeat. Troop strength in Iraq has not been significantly reduced. Military spending could bankrupt the country.

    Americans should pray to the one true God for swift action by the President, congress, and the courts to end the "Day of Prayer", the American Islamic republic, and for a return to constitutional government. If it be God's will, He will then have mercy on America and grant success in her war against radical Islam.

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    Re: The Middle East

    Dan: During the congressionally mandated "Day of Prayer" following 9/11 and Katrina, President Bush urged Americans to pray to Allah. The Supreme Court has never rebuked congress or the President for their abuse of power and violation of U.S. Constitution. President Obama has never rescinded President Bush's establishment of an Islamic religion. Conclusion: America bends the knee to Allah.

    I am fully aware of these events; I witnessed them myself as did all Americans. I do not remember the exhortation to pray to Allah, however. I only remember him stating that 'true' Islam is a peaceful religion, that all of us who stand against the horrible acts worship the same god, and that Allah stands against the terrorists. President Bush in no way believes the true gospel, on that we fully agree!

    It is wrong to state that President Bush established an Islamic religion, however much in error he was on this. And he at least recognized the EXISTENCE of radical Islam; something that Obama denies the existence of.

    I don't understand what you are saying Dan. Should we allow the Islamic governments of the Mideast to destroy Israel and ultimately invade Europe? That is the inevitable result of a policy of shunning Israel entirely.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    I am fully aware of these events; I witnessed them myself as did all Americans. I do not remember the exhortation to pray to Allah, however. I only remember him stating that 'true' Islam is a peaceful religion, that all of us who stand against the horrible acts worship the same god, and that Allah stands against the terrorists. President Bush in no way believes the true gospel, on that we fully agree!

    It is wrong to state that President Bush established an Islamic religion, however much in error he was on this. And he at least recognized the EXISTENCE of radical Islam; something that Obama denies the existence of.
    Whether President believes the true gospel is irrevelant. Under the provisions of the national day of prayer, Congress authorized President Bush to summon the American people to prayer following the events of 9/11 (An establishment of religion contrary to the U.S. Constitution). Under the express approval and authorization of Congress, President Bush had Imam Muzammil Siddiqi deliver a prayer to Allah thereby establishing Islam as an official religion of the United States. The Supreme Court has not voided the establishment of Islam. See
    http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IN0109-340.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    I don't understand what you are saying Dan. Should we allow the Islamic governments of the Mideast to destroy Israel and ultimately invade Europe? That is the inevitable result of a policy of shunning Israel entirely.
    No. You raise an excellent point. The destruction of Israel and Europe is not in the best interest of the United States. However, Israel and Europe are very wealthy. They should be able to pay for defensive weapons and U.S. troops, if necessary, not the American taxpayer.

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    Re: The Middle East

    Thanks for the clarification Dan. Yes, any events such as a day of prayer where gods of specific religions are prayed to is a violation of the U.S. constitution. A day of prayer where each belief system is encouraged to pray in its own independent gatherings would not be such a violation. However, media coverage of one 'religion' above another in such a context would be.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    I have been absent from the forum for a while. However reading through this post, both Gerhard and Robert raised some interesting points.

    Here are some of my personal thoughts.

    I for one, from what I have read about Israell's government do not for a minute believe they are even close to a Democratic Federal Republic style of government. Neither is the US anymore. Both governments are of a Fascist form of socialism.

    Secondly, I do not support America's failed (camp David) style of support for Israel. Selling them arms to defend themselves is OK by me.

    I do not agree that if Israel falls to the Muslims, the world would be overun with Muslims. The world's safety is not dependent upon the status of Israel.

    The nuclear power we possess (if used) would stop all aggression. If you don't believe me, just ask Japan.

    Without getting solely into to theological aspects of why I believe Israel should not exist, I will mention a main political one.

    Israel has violated almost every UN sanction and charter against them. And nobody, not even the Zionist controlled media even dares to mention that.

    As far as I am concerned, cursed Jacobites (Israel) cursed Esauites and cursed Ishmaelites, will always and forever fight with one another and so be it. Let them destroy one another. They are all cursed sons of Abraham.

    By favoring cursed Israel (Christ blasphemers) over cursed Ishmael/Esau, (Christ blasphemers) is hypocrisy on the U.S. government's (Christ blasphemers) part.

    The Zionist Jews are just as militant as the militant Muslims.

    These cursed sons of Abraham have been shedding each others blood for centuries before Christ, and for centuries after Christ. It will not end in this temporal life.

    Why? Why must we spill the blood of American sons and get invloved in their battles? Money is not the issue. How much money would a mother and father give to bring back their dead son who fought in these stupid wars in the middle east.

    You may say, we need to protect the world from the growth of radical Islam. And I agree! however let's just NUKE all them SOB's Zionists and radical Islam alike.

    Let's bite for a change, rather than bark!

    When the U.S. unleashes it wrath (NUKE) then and only then will these cursed sons of Abraham start to make peace with one another.

    That's the only way I see it.

    Am I harsh or mean??? Ask God if He was harsh or mean when He wiped out nations. Including men, women , children, cattle, and all the wicked nations possessed.

    Rember one thing. Jesus Himself cursed the fig tree (Israel). And what did these wicked Jews say in response? "Let the blood be on our children and our children's children". And I agree!

    Get out of Israel and let the chips fall as they may. God is in control.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: The Middle East

    Nick, I will not elaborate on where I differ from your views as this should be clear from previous posts. Basically, I do not view the issues regarding the conflict of these nations as 'religious' or 'spiritual' to the same extent and I do not believe America is a Christian nation (but rather one that has largely avoided persecuting gospel believers at least up until now). God has a different standard for what He requires of nations to avoid His temporal judgment than what He requires of mankind to avoid eternal judgment.

    These issues are not gospel issues of course.

    There are 3 things I would mention:

    1. In no manner are Muslims the sons of Ishmael, so the prophecies regarding the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac do not apply at all to the Arab/Israel conflict. The myth of Ishmael identity for Muslims has been more than adequately debunked in my view. This is something that the Muslims claim for themselves, not something that is historically true. The myth that European 'Jews' are any more the descendants of Isaac than other Europeans is equally a historical myth.

    2. Muslims plan to conquer the world through population majority; they rear an average of 8 children per family to the 1.5 of the West.

    3. The nuclear issue is not paramount to a lot of conflicts. North Korea, for instance, plans to destroy South Korea not by nukes but by chemical weapons launched on missiles (which technology they are constantly perfecting). They would rather sell their nuclear technology to Iran for big bucks!

    Anyway, too much diversion into political issues is probably a bad idea for us to pursue.

    --Bob
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    I know this is diverging from the topic (but not entirely); here is a link to an article on the chemical weapons program of N. Korea:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...BrandChannel=0

    I personally believe the whole nuclear testing program of N. Korea is a diversion to get attention off of the planned chemical warfare. They plan to sell their nuclear technology to Iran and whoever else in the Middle East will buy at huge prices--not to use it themselves. They don't need the nuclear technology to accomplish their objective! A nuclear explosion would trigger instant retaliation in kind, however, an unleashing of chemical agents killing millions instantly would trigger nothing of the sort. And the U.S. has no ability to retaliate significantly for a long time with its military forces committed elsewhere.

    The regime of N. Korea is the most evil and murderous totalitarian phenomenon in the world. The religion of complete and total worship of the communist party leader is unparalleled anywhere else. And Pyongyang was once a central headquarters for 'Christian missionaries'! I do not yet know how God will ultimately destroy this awful power that seems immune from human invasion--but we can be assured that He will in time!

    Seoul is the most dangerous place in the world without any doubt--truly a ticking time bomb except by the Lord's protective providence!
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: The Middle East

    A news article on North Korean 'religion'. The real nature of the steam-roller torture, common as a means of punishing dissenters, is not fully described. The crushing of the head is actually the last part of the punishment. The body of the dissenter is laid flat and the steam roller starts the crush at the toes & very slowly makes its way to the head; causing the most extreme torture possible before death.

    http://www.canada.com/national/natio...3-e04eec4e3879
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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