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Thread: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    JM calling our hermeneutic "naturalistic" is about as absurd as Red Beetle calling our MCT "hyper-dispensationalism!"
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Thank you for the discussion.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Thanks Brandan. A guy I work with have discussed this very thing ad nauseum. It is true, that when the churchian world refers the the " word of God" they mean the bible, but the true "Word of God" is our Messiah, the Christ. When we speak of the Scriptures I find it helpful to refer to them as the "Written word of God" so as not to confuse the issue.
    When I first joined this forum, the James issue was the hot debate that I was interested in. It was a very difficult issue for me to deal with because of my churchian background, but by the grace of God I was shown the truth, and it was awesome.
    I have found that when challenges are presented to the majority of evangelicals regarding the so-called "canon", it destroys the "idol" that they have created in their minds, which is their God. It shakes their whole theological box up and destroys their idea of their god's sovereignty. This was one of the very issues I faced too.
    But, after I have gone through the multitude of Scriptures that reveal that our God, the One true God(the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit), IS sovereign, Dan 4:35, (NASB), "All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?' Everything that God desires, He does. There is NOTHING or NO ONE that can hinder Him. These very debates/discussions we are having on PNET are exactly what He wants, indeed what He planned to happen, down to the very smallest detail, His will is done perfectly.
    In conclusion, the fact that James(a book I disagree with) is in the Bible that I read and study out of, does not put fear in me that God didn't want it there, or that God didn't have control over it's being put there, but in fact He did put it there for His own will and purpose. The purpose of which I have come to believe is for the hardening of the reprobate in their false gospel.
    Just a few thoughts from a spiritual infant on the forum.
    Col 2:9, (NASB), For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Mt 4:4, (NASB), But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'"

    For one to be able to know what Words proceed out of the mouth of God from the words that proceed out of the mouth of a man, one must know Christ, for He Is the Word.

    "Even so faith without works is dead. But a man may say, You have faith and I have works; let me see your faith without your works, and I will make my faith clear to you by my works. You have the belief that God is one, and you do well: the evil spirits have the same belief, shaking with fear. Do you not see, O foolish man, that faith without works is of no use? Was not the righteousness of Abraham our father judged by his works, when he made an offering of Isaac his son on the altar? You see that his faith was helping his works and was made complete by them; And the holy Writings were put into effect which said, And Abraham had faith in God and it was put to his account as righteousness; and he was named the friend of God. You see that a man's righteousness is judged by his works and not by his faith only. And in the same way, was not the righteousness of Rahab, the loose woman, judged by her works, when she took into her house those who were sent and let them go out by another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead even so faith without works is dead."

    Did these words proceed out of the mouth of God or did these words proceed out of the mouth of man? These words or found in the book of James, which is part of the canon that man put together and then said if anyone was to disagree with their canon, then that person is a heretic.

    If our righteousness is complete in Christ and our faith is from God and that faith is faith alone in Christ alone, then these words, from the book of James, did not proceed from the mouth of God.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Are you sure you're quoting scripture?

    "No one can possibly be absolutely certain that he/she possesses every last scripture verse that God inspired in all of history and that none other can possibly exist or have ever existed"





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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~JM~ View Post
    Are you sure you're quoting scripture?

    "No one can possibly be absolutely certain that he/she possesses every last scripture verse that God inspired in all of history and that none other can possibly exist or have ever existed"




    Your question is idiotic. Of course it's inspired scripture - but you'd rather not hear us and instead would rather misrepresent our position - which is of course annoying, but we'll be ok - we're used to it.
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~JM~ View Post
    Thank you for the discussion.
    It's not much of a discussion when only one side is presenting a real argument with facts and ideas. It would be nice if your side could present a logical counterpoint without misrepresentation and mud slinging.
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by trav View Post
    In conclusion, the fact that James(a book I disagree with) is in the Bible that I read and study out of, does not put fear in me that God didn't want it there, or that God didn't have control over it's being put there, but in fact He did put it there for His own will and purpose. The purpose of which I have come to believe is for the hardening of the reprobate in their false gospel.
    Just a few thoughts from a spiritual infant on the forum.
    Trav - Amen! James is in there to trip up religionists. I'll look forward to the day when James loving reprobates are before the Father and say to him, "But your bible says Justification by WORKS!". God put James in the Bible to trip up the false religionists and confound their self righteous puny mind in order to damn them even further in their eternal sin!
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Trav - Amen! James is in there to trip up religionists. I'll look forward to the day when James loving reprobates are before the Father and say to him, "But your bible says Justification by WORKS!". God put James in the Bible to trip up the false religionists and confound their self righteous puny mind in order to damn them even further in their eternal sin!
    Yep! The truth can cut like a hot knife through butter.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Which point would you like me to counter?

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Trav - Amen! James is in there to trip up religionists. I'll look forward to the day when James loving reprobates are before the Father and say to him, "But your bible says Justification by WORKS!".
    I rest my case. How dare you refer to James loving/believing people as reprobates? How do you know they are reprobates. Are you God or something? This is the kind of stuff I have been talking about.

    God put James in the Bible to trip up the false religionists and confound their self righteous puny mind in order to damn them even further in their eternal sin!
    This is really vicious. This is what you call Christianity is it? Unbelievable. Sounds like you have absolute hatred for anyone who disagrees with you on James. So much for p-net's policy of fellowship with James believers when you come out with this.

    At least I know what you think about people like me and I think you did this to let James believers know the animosity you have towards them. How sad!

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Hawker, this forum has been called, "argumentative, grace-LESS, boastful, prideful" etc. so you have to realize you can't challenge the offical traditions of this forum.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hawker View Post
    I rest my case. How dare you refer to James loving/believing people as reprobates? How do you know they are reprobates. Are you God or something? This is the kind of stuff I have been talking about.
    Well you haven't been very kind in the way you've done so, one could almost say that it was a heresy of manners.


    This is really vicious. This is what you call Christianity is it? Unbelievable. Sounds like you have absolute hatred for anyone who disagrees with you on James. So much for p-net's policy of fellowship with James believers when you come out with this.
    I have no hatred for any one who believes James, I just believe that God is purposely deceiving them:
    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Kings 22:20
    "The Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that.
    21 "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, 'I will entice him.'
    22 "The Lord said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'
    23 "Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you."
    That pretty much makes my point.

    At least I know what you think about people like me and I think you did this to let James believers know the animosity you have towards them. How sad!
    No you don't! I think you are deceived right now. I would love to see you wake up, that is up to the Lord.

    In the mean time, if all your going to do is lurk around and try to be a jerk, quit wasting your's and our time.
    Get a hobby or something.
    Isaiah 45:7, (KJV), I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~JM~ View Post
    Hawker, this forum has been called, \"argumentative, grace-LESS, boastful, prideful\" etc. so you have to realize you can't challenge the offical traditions of this forum.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Have you ever wondered why people do not stick around this forum long? I'm sure you've convinced yourselves that you teach the truth and others cannot bare it so they leave...but you only deceive yourselves. It is truly your attitudes mentioned in one of my previous posts. The argumentative nature of your replies, the boastful responses to those who dare to challenge Pope Brandon, grace-LESS use of pejoratives (in the reputation bar of all places) and the prideful why you deceive each other into believing you are the elect excluding all who disagree. Let's face it, this is a pathetic, Brandon used it so I thought I would, little corner of the net. I rarely post on this forum because I've seen what happens to posters who descent from forum tradition, the bleating of the sheep drowns them out, bravado and machismo flow from the keyboard until they are chased off.

    Mr. Higby and GraceAmbassador have always treated me civilly and I'm thankful for that but as Brandon suggested perhaps it's time to get a hobby or something and listen to the bleating sheep no more.

    j

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlyfavored View Post
    Well you haven't been very kind in the way you've done so, one could almost say that it was a heresy of manners.
    This comment is like pot calling the kettle black. I think we need to grow up quite frankly.

    I have no hatred for any one who believes James, I just believe that God is purposely deceiving them: That pretty much makes my point.
    Very convenient to pull scriptures like this and make them say anything you want them to say. These scriptures have nothing to do with the book of James and you know it.

    No you don't! I think you are deceived right now. I would love to see you wake up, that is up to the Lord.
    I woke up and smelt the coffee. This is why I won't sit back and allow you to rubbish people outside the scope of your beliefs, because no one on this forum has all the truth, and any truth you do have is by God's grace.

    In the mean time, if all your going to do is lurk around and try to be a jerk, quit wasting your's and our time.
    Scrutinising your beliefs is scriptural and holding them against the bible is a scriptural thing to do. You see it as trying to be a jerk because you don't agree with me. How sad.

    Get a hobby or something.
    Ho ho ho ho ho! This is a wonderful exhortation. May be you need to take some of your own advice.

    All the best to you. Take care.

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~JM~ View Post
    Have you ever wondered why people do not stick around this forum long? I'm sure you've convinced yourselves that you teach the truth and others cannot bare it so they leave...but you only deceive yourselves. It is truly your attitudes mentioned in one of my previous posts. The argumentative nature of your replies, the boastful responses to those who dare to challenge Pope Brandon, grace-LESS use of pejoratives (in the reputation bar of all places) and the prideful why you deceive each other into believing you are the elect excluding all who disagree. Let's face it, this is a pathetic, Brandon used it so I thought I would, little corner of the net. I rarely post on this forum because I've seen what happens to posters who descent from forum tradition, the bleating of the sheep drowns them out, bravado and machismo flow from the keyboard until they are chased off.

    Mr. Higby and GraceAmbassador have always treated me civilly and I'm thankful for that but as Brandon suggested perhaps it's time to get a hobby or something and listen to the bleating sheep no more.

    j
    Mister "JM" - whoever you are, you miss the point of this forum entirely. I really DO NOT CARE what people outside of the brethren who post here think of me or of us. They will make up things to think about us. This website exists PRIMARILY to build up those who BELIEVE LIKE US. So if you don't like it, well then too bad.
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill View Post
    Mister "JM" - whoever you are, you miss the point of this forum entirely. I really DO NOT CARE what people outside of the brethren who post here think of me or of us. They will make up things to think about us. This website exists PRIMARILY to build up those who BELIEVE LIKE US. So if you don't like it, well then too bad.
    We know you don't care. You have made this abundantly clear, insinuating that James believers are reprobates.

    You cannot expect to put up this kind of rhetoric and not have people on your forum put up other views. This forum is not about getting to the truth. This forum is about towing the p-net line, parroting off the right statements. If you say the right statements, some at p-net will pat you on the head and say, "Very good", but if you put an alternative view across, you will be treated like a second class citizen, not worthy to breathe the same air as the "p-net elect". (There are of course exceptions. Two of them being Bob and Eileen. These among others are a good example to you.)

    If this is your idea of Christianity, this is very sad.

    I am certain that whatever you all think of me, God will vindicate me in the sense that I have warned you and tried to provide you with a different way of looking at things. As far as I am concerned I have discharged my responsibility. It is up to God what He decides to do with what I have said. I really think you need to have a regard for people outside of the p-net box. You have to remember that all people are made in the image of God. Your extreme views play out in ugly treatment of others. I pray that God will show you this. I say this out of a regard and love for you.

    God bless you ALWAYS!

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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    First of all I don't believe all James believers are reprobates or even unregenerate. But that's ok, don't listen to what I say and think how you want. BTW, your posts are out of line Kevin - don't post on this thread any more. Got it? Thanks.
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    Re: Which manuscripts constitute the scriptures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
    John, that video is great! Thanks for posting it! OK, now lets drop this petty arguing and move on with the topic - if anyone wants to DISCUSS the issue rather than throw mud - please do so!
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