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Thread: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

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    Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    As a High Sovereign Grace Predestinarian, how would you respond if an atheist was to call you and asked about Isaiah 45:7?

    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Watch the two videos and give me your thoughts and comments.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Upi...layer_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3huTcoO3c&feature=player_embedded
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    Loved these videos.... Wow, an ATHEIST - no less - uses LOGIC better than these evangelical IDIOTS!

    God told Pharoah to "Let my people go."
    Exodus 4:21-23 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. {22} And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: {23} And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
    God caused (decretive cause) Pharoah to sin. But does this make him the "author of sin?" (BTW, the phrase "author of sin" is not biblical terminology). Or in other words, does this make God evil? NO! God is not bound by any law, He can do whatever it is He wants! What law is God bound to that could make Him a sinner? For example, if God were to "steal" who would He steal from since He owns all things? What wrong *could* He possibly do? I haven't the foggiest idea. STUPID EVANGELICALS go out of their way to "protect" God. When they do that, they send out a message that is SO STUPID and SO RIDICULOUS - no wonder men reject their message - I REJECT THEIR MESSAGE TOO!
    Psalms 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

    Psalms 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

    Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
    How many professing Christians are asking, "What doest thou?" Men are screaming "Thou wouldst not do it! That would make Him Author of Sin!!!"

    The God of the Bible is ABSOLUTELY Sovereign, and everything that occurs in this world is because it is his pleasure.

    Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, {10} Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure : {11} Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it .

    Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil : I the LORD do all these things.

    Lamentations 3:37-38 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? {38} Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

    Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    Isaiah 45:7 says what it means and means what it says. God decreed sin to come into the world through the hands of wicked creatures. wicked creatures that He created and that He created to be wicked. God also hardens hearts to cause them to do wickedness like disobeying Him like Pharaoh and like those that crucified the Lord of Glory. This is done for His Glory and for His purpose. It is a glorious thing that God is in sovereign control of evil, even when wickedness abounds.

    Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    It's funny....

    Atheists say to evangelicals, "WHY should I believe what you people say? Here, look what the bible says in Isaiah. It says God created evil. You DO believe the book of Isaiah, don't you?" (This is where I agree with the atheist)

    The idiot evangelical responds, "But of course I believe the book. But it doesn't say what you think it says."

    And then the idiot goes through a bunch of mumble jumble hocus pocus ILLOGICAL PUTRID nonsense to "explain" what the bible REALLY meant to say.

    The atheist looks at the evangelical and thinks, "these people are MORONS!"

    I agree with the atheist - these people ARE morons. The difference between Gospel Believing Predestinarians and evangelical idiots is we actually BELIEVE what the book of Isaiah is saying.

    To that, the atheist replies, "but that makes God a monster. I could never knowingly submit to a monster." (this is where the evangelical idiot agrees with the atheist)

    OUR reply is, "Why does that make God a monster? Besides, who gives a #$#@$ what you think?!?!?! He IS GOD - He can do whatever HE WANTS. HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU PUNY MEN THINK. If you think he's a monster, oh well."
    Rom 9:20-21 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    Thanks John for the videos.

    All I will say is that those two pastors have NO clue at all as to who the God of the scriptures is. How disgusting their attempts were to "get God off the hook" so to speak.

    And people tithe to these ministries??? I would rather flush 10% of my paycheck down the toilet than to give it to these types of ungodly ministries who distort the Gospel and God Himself.

    Free willers and evangellyfish teachers try to create a more pallatable God to use in their sales pitch to gain more members. But this person asking the questions sees through the crap of those pastors.

    Nicholas
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand..........John 10:27,28

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    I just had to post this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwnA55JHKoQ
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    The saddest of all things is that, although it is obvious that this "pastor" has no theological training, even those who do have such "training" would answer the same way, probably, with a little bit more sophistication, but the meaning would be the same!

    I am cropping this to my facebook page if I may, so more people can see the folly of evangelicalism and my friends who are still in the chains of evangelicalism may, at least, reflect.

    Thanks for posting! I laughed my heart out but should have torn my clothes weeping from the porch to the altar!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador View Post
    I laughed my heart out but should have torn my clothes weeping from the porch to the altar!
    Yeah, it's funny and sad at the same time. Very funny and sad at the same time. Maybe it's my twisted sense of humor.
    Rom 8:18-21, (NASB), For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    A very astute atheist associate who was a close 'pastor' friend of mine in my former life in the SDA church and ministry is coming to my home next month. He is a 'conservative libertarian' apologist in the political realm who stands in the Ayn Rand tradition. He hates anything other than constitutional liberties when it comes to government policy.

    I find it interesting that the early Christians were dubbed as atheists since they rejected all the gods of the Roman pagan culture. I am going to state to my associate that I am proud to be a 'Christian gospel atheist' like the early believers! Any notions of God short of the true gospel (i.e., 'religion') are worthless and do not make persons better, they ever and always make humankind worse.

    My associate places a great deal of emphasis on man's free-will. I'm going to tell him that I reject all notions of free will based on logical, philosophical, and 'natural law' considerations (he will not even listen to scriptural arguments). Free-will ultimately and logically leads to atheism; there is no debate in that regard as far as my God-given reason is involved.
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Atheist vs P-Net Doctrine

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    A very astute atheist associate who was a close 'pastor' friend of mine in my former life in the SDA church and ministry is coming to my home next month. He is a 'conservative libertarian' apologist in the political realm who stands in the Ayn Rand tradition. He hates anything other than constitutional liberties when it comes to government policy.

    I find it interesting that the early Christians were dubbed as atheists since they rejected all the gods of the Roman pagan culture. I am going to state to my associate that I am proud to be a 'Christian gospel atheist' like the early believers! Any notions of God short of the true gospel (i.e., 'religion') are worthless and do not make persons better, they ever and always make humankind worse.

    My associate places a great deal of emphasis on man's free-will. I'm going to tell him that I reject all notions of free will based on logical, philosophical, and 'natural law' considerations (he will not even listen to scriptural arguments). Free-will ultimately and logically leads to atheism; there is no debate in that regard as far as my God-given reason is involved.
    Let us know how that goes Bob!
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