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Thread: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    "Since virtually all expositors have no concept of the difference between 'Original Sin' as taught by Augustine (in his enslavement to neo-Platonist philosophy) and 'Total Depravity' (Total Inability) as taught in the revealed scriptures, the doctrine of the imputation of Adam's sin to the entire human race is alive and well. Those who deny Adamic imputation to elect and reprobate alike are not even viewed as 'the least of these my brethren' by 'Reformed' scholars, pastors, and churches: they are cast out as heretics.
    Bob:

    It is interesting that you would say that, because, I have a book of CHARTS of Christian doctrines and how they are believed by different groups, a book that I can't find if I needed to be alive, probably lost in many of my moves, has a CHART of the Headship of Adam and one of the charts INCLUDES the fact that there is a group within the Reformed camp (?) who believes that Adam ONLY represents the elect and that the imputation of sin to Adam is not alike with the reprobates, (thus denying that the imputation to the elect are alike). I wish I could find the book, but, to our comfort, this doctrine is not totally strange and shunned by ALL Reformers.

    It took me a few days to respond to this interesting point because I was looking for the blessed book and I can't find it... But, by memory, it does bring the possibility above, and, as NORMAL.

    Milt
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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    On the matter of God hiding the gospel--if God be sovereign this is a TRUE hiding and not a mere concealment of something that would otherwise be an opposite reality. In other words, God's will is done on Earth as it is in heaven. The non-elect are hardened in such a manner that they CANNOT believe--reprobation is the substance and essence of their souls. They are created solely for the purpose of bringing God glory in their damnation.
    Both elect and non-elect may be "hardened in such a manner that they CANNOT believe" according to God's sovereign will. "Lost" in 2 Cor. 4:3,4 is in reference to those who have been blinded by the god of this world. In scripture, the blind and the lost may be and often are elect persons. They are begotten in Christ through the gospel when it pleases God (1 Cor. 4:15).

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    Thanks Milt!

    Such a position is rare because it challenges Augustinianism. We certainly know how much 99% of 'Reformed' teachers will defend Augustine as their revered mentor come hell or high water, come what May, or come anything else!

    Unless and until the Lord starts causing predestinarians to question the orthodoxy of Augustine and Tertullian, there will be NO CHANGE in the status quo.

    --Bob

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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    Gerhard: Both elect and non-elect may be "hardened in such a manner that they CANNOT believe" according to God's sovereign will. "Lost" in 2 Cor. 4:3,4 is in reference to those who have been blinded by the god of this world. In scripture, the blind and the lost may be and often are elect persons. They are begotten in Christ through the gospel when it pleases God (1 Cor. 4:15).

    According to my convictions, there is nothing more perverse than equating ANYTHING regarding God's elect loved from eternity with the non-elect hated from eternity. The nature of the sin of both and the 'hiding' of the truth from both is infinitely different. Of course, it is certainly true that both are created in iniquity--albeit for VERY different purposes. It is also certainly true that God purposes to hide the gospel truth from the elect FOR A TIME. But there is no other similarity.

    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby View Post
    Thanks Milt!

    Such a position is rare because it challenges Augustinianism. We certainly know how much 99% of 'Reformed' teachers will defend Augustine as their revered mentor come hell or high water, come what May, or come anything else!

    Unless and until the Lord starts causing predestinarians to question the orthodoxy of Augustine and Tertullian, there will be NO CHANGE in the status quo.

    --Bob
    Agreed Bob!
    The evidence of what you say above is that those who venerate Augustine are now SHUNNING fellowship with those who simply warn them that Augustine WAS NEVER a Reformed person and that he continued to being a Roman Catholic to the end of his life, and, warn them that the Roman Catholics SCOFF at Reformed people for, IGNORANTLY believing that Augustine was converted to the Reformation.

    Those kids at the Christian Tulip page at Facebook, blocked me because I attempted to warn them of both the above! I did not say one word BAD about Augustine and his theology; I only warned them that he continued to being a Roman Catholic and proposed that, if he had lived through the Reformation, would certainly have opposed it; they blocked me and deleted my post! RIDICULOUS! Now Augustine is the determining factor for fellowship to those guys at Christian Tulip! I am ashamed and embarrassed by them!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    Some presbies are no different than the Charismatics: In the Charismatic movement, if you SPEAK IN TONGUES you can be the devil in person; they will fellowship with you without restriction or checking anything else. Presbies: if you venerate Augustine, even if you are the devil in person, then you will be received honorably in their fellowship without restriction or checking anything else.

    If you are against speaking in tongues, you can be the Apostle Paul resurrected in their midst and the Charismatics will SHUN YOU! If you are against AUGUSTINE, by any measure, or even if you just give credit to Augustine for whatever it is that he has credit and nothing else, then YOU WILL BE SHUNNED and cast out of their fellowship.

    Sorry to be off topic!

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: Article: The Gospel is Not an Offer

    According to my convictions, there is nothing more perverse than equating ANYTHING regarding God's elect loved from eternity with the non-elect hated from eternity. The nature of the sin of both and the 'hiding' of the truth from both is infinitely different. Of course, it is certainly true that both are created in iniquity--albeit for VERY different purposes. It is also certainly true that God purposes to hide the gospel truth from the elect FOR A TIME. But there is no other similarity.
    Well said and, precisely to the point.

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