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Thread: "He is likely not saved."

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by alt731 View Post
    When you make fun of my position, saying, "how ridiculous that the Holy Spirit would have a proper BMI requirement!"
    Did I forget how to write? This is dishonest and I am going to hold you to your signature.

  2. #22
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    'Believe in Jesus and do as you please', for the regenerate person, simply means that what pleases me pleases God--minus the lusts of the flesh which are no longer primary, the fruit of the Spirit is primary in every believer regarding what pleases him/her.

    It is wrong to despise regenerate smokers. I am not bothered by anyone else's smoking though I do not smoke myself. If having smoked a long time is truly damaging to a particular believer's health, and such believer needs to quit for the sake of other believers and family members who don't want him/her to experience painful bad health and early death, that person will quit when the Holy Spirit motivates him/her to do it and at that time will truly want to quit, perceiving life without tobacco as better than life with it at that juncture.

    'Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch' is not a part of the gospel (Col. 2:21-23), we all know that. That even includes cannabis, if there is a good reason and purpose for using it medically. I am definitely bothered by recreational use of cannabis for a lot of reasons I could cite, however, if I know a believer that does this I will not express any disrespect and still embrace him/her as I embrace Christ Himself (as we are commanded to do).

    I think it is right, however, to have a discussion with another believer regarding anything habitual that is truly ruining life in the near term (including whatever destructive habit can be imagined) and by all appearances will destroy their witness, mental wellness, purity of mind, health, and maybe lead to early death. I'm thinking of things like gambling, narcotic drugs, opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates, crack/cocaine, pornography, fornication/adultery, true alcoholism, obsession with anger, and we could create a very big list Iím sure.

    Gluttony as historically defined does not mean eating too much on festive occasions or even a single meal, it means continuous very excessive eating of food day in and day out without remorse. That does not excuse overeating but I donít condemn believers I see doing this on any particular occasion. I will admit that I like my food too much and need to put consumption of Godís gifts in perspective.

    Anyway, you have my thoughts. Bro. Bob

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Did I forget how to write? This is dishonest and I am going to hold you to your signature.
    Glenn, I honestly didn't intend to mis-represent your position. You said, "What is the proper BMI requirement of the Holy Spirit?" - I thought you were saying it was ridiculous for the Holy Spirit to have a BMI requirement. If that's not what you were saying, what were you saying? And, if I did get it wrong, I apologise for my mis-representation. But I wasn't being dishonest.
    Last edited by alt731; 02-04-19 at 06:21 AM.
    I don't like being corrected, but don't worry about that, do it anyway. I'll get over it.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob
    'Believe in Jesus and do as you please', for the regenerate person, simply means that what pleases me pleases God--minus the lusts of the flesh which are no longer primary, the fruit of the Spirit is primary in every believer regarding what pleases him/her.

    It is wrong to despise regenerate smokers. I am not bothered by anyone else's smoking though I do not smoke myself. If having smoked a long time is truly damaging to a particular believer's health, and such believer needs to quit for the sake of other believers and family members who don't want him/her to experience painful bad health and early death, that person will quit when the Holy Spirit motivates him/her to do it and at that time will truly want to quit, perceiving life without tobacco as better than life with it at that juncture.
    My thoughts exactly. I donít smoke - my wife and son just wouldnít like it! I donít chew tobacco either - I like having teeth. But I cannot condemn anyone who engages in these practices. Smoking the occasional cigar or pipe or even occasionally chewing tobacco is not harmful in my opinion. Habitual use probably isnít a good idea - especially when it begins to affect oneís health.
    This is my signature.

  6. #25
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    If I may, I'd like to make a brief comment. As a smoker myself, and one who plans to quit, I must say that I'm surprised by some of the responses.

    First, I don't think it is fair to say that one can simply do as they please now that we are regenerate. Yes scripture makes clear we have a new nature, but Bob, we all know that not all our pleasures are godly. We will not shed sin until we see the other side of the veil. We ought to use the law as a guide to what God desires. He gave it to us to show us our sin, but it is how we ought to behave to be righteous. Though we may never achieve even a shell of true righteousness, we are followers and lovers of Christ. Let's try to live like our big Brother.

    Second, smoking is not a sin. Nothing we put in our bodies is totally good for us, some medicines are incredibly dangerous. But we have some liberty in the lives that we lead. If one is moved to quit, it would be better for his health than to continue, but if not then that may well he how God takes him home. It isn't fatalism or hedonosm to live life as you enjoy until it's time to go home.

    The point is that we cannot be perfectly healthy no matter how hard we try. Some are moved to try harder than others. Let God be the judge.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    These are a known theologian's words and directed at me, this week, via email to my son in law.

    Why?

    Because I am a smoker and have been for about 10 years now.

    Apparently, a man can not be a Christian and a smoker at the same time.

    But apparently, a man can be a legalist and a Christian at the same time.

    Glenn

    Edit: I removed the name as I have not been provided with all of the communications between them.
    A man can be a smoker and a Christian at the same time. I recently quit smoking in December (switched to vaping - working towards becoming nicotine free for good), so I know for a fact that both things can exist simultaneously.

    With that said, it is foolish.

    Now, seeing how even the thought of foolishness is sin, it needs to be repented of - and this will happen in the Lord's timing, Lord willing.

    Or it won't. It might kill you.

    Or, it won't and you will die some other way.

    Who knows...

    What I do know is that Christians struggle with sin - just a simple fact. Far be it from any of us to judge a man's union with Christ because of His struggles. And, considering the plethora of sin in our lives, I think a nicotine addiction is the least of our worries. For me personally, I struggle with not loving God as I ought considering the great love with which He's loved me - which for me a is far greater trethcery than smoking cigarettes.

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  10. #27
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    I still have to make the comment that no person has made the case that smoking tobacco is sinful (or smoking any substance for that matter). The "our body is a temple" argument holds no water. First of all, that is not the context of those words, it has nothing to do with smoking or any similar thing. Second, as I stated above, there is no way to be perfectly healthy in this life no matter what you eat, drink, smoke, or do. We are cursed with death and death will claim our bodies at some point. Our hope is as much in Christ for the redemption of our bodies as our souls.

    Again, I'm not saying smoking is good for you, or that it isnt harmful, or that it is righteous and everyone should do it. But I still have heard no reason to believe it is a sin. Take that as you will.

    May God be the Judge

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