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Thread: Christian "Possession"

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    Christian "Possession"

    The question has been forced upon us: "Can a born-again Christian be possessed by a demon?" The answer based on the Scriptures and on logic is an unequivocal no!

    The proponents of this unscriptural doctrine use such terms as Christians being "invaded by demons" rather than demon possessed. This is nothing more than a word game and a smoke screen to hide the scriptural weakness of their position.

    They also present an illogical supposition that demons can invade or control the mind or body but not the spirit. God's Word declares that the body is a temple of the Holy Ghost who is in us. We're told to glorify God in our bodies and in our spirits, which are His (I Corinthians 6:19,20). In II Corinthians 6:14-16 the question is asked:

    What communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial... And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them.
    To say that a Christian's body or mind can be possessed or invaded by demons is to contradict the Word of God and declare a communion of light and darkness, that God and Satan are dwelling together.

    The Scriptures also teach us that Christ is seated in the heavenlies, far above all principalities and powers and mights and dominions (Ephesians 1:21,22). These are references to spirit beings - and Christ is far above them. Where am I as a believer? According to Ephesians 2:6, I am seated together with Christ in the heavenlies. As Christians we're in a warfare against these principalities and powers (Ephesians 6:12). We need the help of God to stand, for these rulers of the darkness can and do attack us in a variety of ways. But they cannot come in and take control of our lives.

    The Scriptures also teach that we are in Christ, and that He is in us (John 14:20). It is Christ in us which is our hope of glory (Colossians 1:27). Christ said concerning Satan, "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me" (John 14:30). If I'm in Christ and Satan has nothing in Him, Satan can have nothing in me - praise the Lord!

    We also read in I John 5:18,

    We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
    What about these experiences of Christians having demons cast out of them? What are the voices that name themselves, the writhing on the floor, and the regurgitation? I don't know. I'm thankful that, since I don't engage in these unscriptural practices, I don't have to explain them.

    Some of the names given by these supposed demons which are more popular are lust, hatred, liar gluttony, envy, fear, and jealousy. These things are classified in Galatians 5:19-21 as the works of the flesh. We're told to "put off all these" (Colossians 3:8), or by the Spirit to "mortify the deeds of the body" (Romans 8:13; 6:3-14). Not once are we commanded to have them cast out.

    It seems to me that this whole Christian-and-demon trip is a cop-out for the flesh. I would like to find some easy way to get rid of my fleshly nature, and rather than the painful process of crucifixion, I'd just like to have it cast out. It's also a way of escaping the responsibility for my fleshly actions. How can I be blamed if "the devil made me do it"?

    There doesn't exist one piece of evidence in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ, His apostles, or the early Church once sought to cast demons of the flesh out of anyone in the Body of Christ. The works of the flesh were recognized, and we're instructed in how to deal with them. Never are we taught that they're to be exorcised.

    Even in the supposed cases from the Scriptures which would confirm that demons could inhabit a Christian - such as Ananias and Sapphira, "Why hath Satan filled thine heart" (Acts 5:3), or Simon the sorcerer, "Thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity" (Acts 8:23) - Peter didn't practice exorcism. Instead, there was instant judgment of death in the first case and a call to repentance in the other.

    It is sad that many Christians and non-Christians seem to have a greater interest in Satan and being possessed by demons than they do in Christ and being possessed by His Holy Spirit. Those who fall into the practices of exorcism soon seem to be looking for and placing a greater emphasis on the power of Satan to attack than on the power of Christ to keep. Demons become the center of their conversations and teachings rather than Jesus Christ .

    We can rejoice in God's Word, "Greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world" (I John 4:4). Thanks be to God Who gives us the victory through Jesus Christ our Lord! We as Christians are told in James 4:7 to "resist," not "cast out," the devil - and he will flee from us.
    2 Timothy 4:2-4
    <(((><
    1 Peter 3:15
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    What can one say,

    But agree 100% with all said.

    One of my favourite quotes is this.

    'The New Testament vision, then, is not about winning a victory but about entering into the victory that Christ has won, not of gaining the world but of saving the soul.' David F Wells - God in the Wasteland page 172.

    The victory has already been won !!
    'As soon as we are incorporated in Christ, we have the certitude that in the end we shall achieve victory in the fight.' John Calvin - Romans 6v6.

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    Demons cannot posess a Christian. We see no accounts of it in the New Testament. We see accounts of demon posession of individuals BEFORE the NC is ratified.

    Also, it is my opinion that Satan is bound, and has no freedoms regarding New Covenant Believers.
    This is my signature.

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    And, in the comments of the early church fathers there are absolutely no records of Christians needing to be delivered from demonic activity - none, zip, zero.

    Our sovereign heavenly Father, who only gives good gifts, has given us His Spirit, not a serpent.
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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    Demonic Oppression

    It must be true that christians can't be possessed by demons. But kermie and countrymouse, are you saying that demons can't do anything to christians at all(oppression)? I've struggled with demonic oppression, and it was true... not my mind. I don't want to get into details... but it happened when I was already a christian.

    The thing is, it may seem to be true, theologically speaking, that christians can't be oppressed, but I've experienced it... so what can I conclude?

    What should we do, as christians, when we, or a friend, or brother of ours is being oppressed by demons(please help, as it seems to be the case with a person I know)?

    I've read in an ex-satanist's website that the way of deliverance is not some sort of exorcism/deliverance session, but a life of repentance. I guess he's right.

    If this post makes the thread go off-topic, I can start a new thread or something... just pm me...

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    Thomas, you're not off-topic, don't worry.

    I don't know whether I understand what you mean when you use the word "oppression." You certainly should not give personal details unless you want to, but could you provide a non-personal example of what you're talking about?

    "A life of repentance," of recognizing your utter dependence upon Christ, may be exactly right. I do know that our thinking makes a huge difference in the way we face hardships, which will surely come to us in this life.

    It's an important issue: let's keep talking.


    Grace and Peace,
    cm
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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    "exorcism"

    In the Orthodox Church before one is baptized there are three prayers of exorcism prayed by the priest and the candidate renounces Satan and his works three times.

    I am not aware of any prayers of exorcism for believers. There are prayers for protection from demonic temptation, assault or deception, but certainly not "possesion."

    "Let God arise and let His enemies be scattered, and let them that hate Him flee from before His face. As smoke vanisheth so let them vanish; as wax melteth before the fire, so let the demons perish from the presence of them that love God and who sign themselves with the sign of the Cross..."

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    Re: Demonic Oppression

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Thomas
    [B]It must be true that christians can't be possessed by demons. But kermie and countrymouse, are you saying that demons can't do anything to christians at all(oppression)? I've struggled with demonic oppression, and it was true... not my mind. I don't want to get into details... but it happened when I was already a christian.

    The thing is, it may seem to be true, theologically speaking, that christians can't be oppressed, but I've experienced it... so what can I conclude?


    I can agree with Thomas that I to have been oppressed. I will briefly summarize what my experience was. I've been in church all my life I am 22 now during my high school years I backslid and wanted nothing to do with the Lord. God had placed a calling in my life since I was 14 but never totally surrendered my life to him until I was 19 which was only 4 yrs ago. During the 4 years of high school I began to stray away from the things of the Lord even though I was obligated to attend church because my parents are co-pastors I was never a hypocrite either. In church I did not worship or praise or listen to sermons it was more of a social function for me. By the time my Junior year in high school rolled around I began to drink and smoke cigarettes never touched weed or any illegal substance like cocaine, LSD, etc...
    I would lie to my parents, listen to secular music all the time, drink when I could to get drunk. I eventually became totally involved in the things of the world and I could care less about God, or the fear of Him. I had lost total control over my life and basically was satan's. I no longer felt the Holy Spirit and did not fear God anymore, it became so bad that I did not care if I died and went to Hell. Several time I saw black images in my room and I would get scared but continue to live my lifestlye and had dreams that satan was trying to take me away and he would stand in my doorway and just laugh at me. I literally did not care about life anymore. But one day I came to a hault and went to the altar at church to pray because my mom wanted me to go. I was like whatever just because you want me to. So right there I realized I could not say the name of Jesus and I felt inside of me something was stronger than me. I felt a spirit telling me to get up and run out the church before God would touch me with his precious Holy SPirit. At the end of it all I was oppressed and my youth pastor had to tell me to say the name of Jesus over and over so that I could be restored because I had been physically drained from all the forces of the enemy and how he had stolen all of my joy and I was serving him.

    So I know that I know like Thomas said I have been oppressed before with demons surrounding me, my room and home. What is there to say about this experience of mine.

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    VC,

    I appreciate your sharing your experience with us. It's not clear, from your post, that you were actually a member of the body of Christ at the time you were being oppressed, whereas Thomas is pretty sure that he had some kind of experience with demons as a Christian.

    Aletheo, thanks for providing that information; it's very similar to what I remember reading in the comments of the post-apostolic Church fathers.

    It's important to remember that, while we can describe our experiences accurately, we also have to interpret them to determine what they mean. In order to do that, we should first examine what the Scriptures say, and look at Church history as well to see what those who preceded us experienced.

    What I'm trying to say is that yes, you each experienced something, but the question is, "What does it mean?"

    -cm
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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    Yes I was a believer during the time I experienced all of this form of oppression. I accepted the Lord when I was 10 yrs old.

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    VC,

    you wrote:
    So right there I realized I could not say the name of Jesus and I felt inside of me something was stronger than me. I felt a spirit telling me to get up and run out the church before God would touch me with his precious Holy SPirit.
    -"before God would touch me with his precious Holy Spirit" -

    VC, if you actually were already a member of the body of Christ when this happened to you, then God had already given you of His Spirit to dwell within you. That's not arguable; it's explicitly stated in the Scriptures.


    Rom 8:9, (NKJV), But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
    Would the Holy Spirit have permitted a demon, an evil spirit, to dwell with Him in you? It is possible to backslide and need restoration, but the experience you described has no precedent in either the Scriptures or early Church history. That's really all I know to say about it, but please keep reading.

    What does matter is that you did call upon the name of the Lord. Thanks be to God that your mother prompted you to go to that altar and pray, and that the pastor prayed with you and knew what to do. You are very fortunate, indeed.

    Grace and Peace,
    cm
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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    I don't believe that something was in me. What I meant was that I knew that if I stayed at the alter God was going to touch me and what I heard was basically to get up and flee. Because satan did not want me to be free but I knew that I could no longer be in wrapped into the lies of satan. I know I wasn't possesed but what do you call my experience??? I believe in oppression and I had another short experience in which I was truly oppressed, I had been involved with another female for about 1 1/2 and I knew I wasn't attracted to the same sex but the lies and deceitful thoughts that satan had toyed with me I fell but only for that short time mentioned above. I clearly knew better and before I even involved myself, my intentions were to help this girl and restore her back to the Lord because she had been lost from the truth for so long so I thought being the super hero christian that didn't think anything could knock me off well it did. Progressively she began to manipulate me, her family placed me on a pedastool to the point where I thought I was God and that's where it all went down. I never had sexual relations if there is such a thing but some form of sexual acts did occur and I am even mature and hope anyone else reading this can and say that we did kiss. By the time all this had occurred I was so confused and satan had me once again in his hands. I became rebellious, disobediant and was a compulsive liar just to see this girl even though I knew in my heart it was wrong. The Lord had revealed to my mother that something was occuring with me and it had to do with, "sex" but she couldnt figure it out. So finally it all occured to her and she clearly tried to make me stop seeing this girl but it was to late I was already to involved and confused. I met her in July, and the beginning of August it was still okay but I spend the night at her house one time and thats where it all began and by the end of October all hell broke loose. I clearly defied the Lord and my parents. Once again I had opened the doors to satan when my parents had said no more. I was another person, I no longer was the child of Christ but of satan's.

    After everything broke off and I finally saw the lies of satan, I knew there were spirits roaming in my room because I would once again see black images and have horrible dreams that I would be lying in my bed and a black panther would come around and I would get up and try to run and the black panther would try to follow me but never could reach me. Also another dream in which I was tricked into a home and they tried to kill me but I was bold and courageous in the dream and was speaking truth and quoting scripture and they let me go and I ran into the arms of my mother.

    So tell me after both of these 2 experiences what is it? I truly believe in oppression and that if you backslide enough and abandonded God, Holy Spirit and everything you have ever known about him can these type of experiences possibly happen and if so why would God allow them to? I'm not saying God allowed them to because I clearly knew what I was doing both time but then again just as he let satan torment JOB to test him, because I thought I was so "spiritual" this time around I was tested and even forewarned to stay away from this girl not knowing what she was carrying with her spiritually speaking and her garbage rolled on to me and I was warned by my mother who clearly has the gift of discernment.
    So what is there to say now?

    Just for encouragement after this hell occured, I was delivered from this spirit of "lesbianism" if you can call it that even thought it was a short time and spirits of disobediance, rebelliousness, the elders of the church annonited me with oil and rebuked these things. After they prayed for me I felt a release and was just so in the presence of God and could actually feel His Holy Spirit once again it was the most awesome feeling in the world.

    So anything else feel free to ask or comment.

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    Well, what happened to me was not as scary as Virtuous Chica's experience, but I'm sure it was demonic, because it all happened instantly after the thought of a demon being there where I was. It was more a matter of feelings, feeling totally scared all of a sudden, almost losing control, trying to scream for help but not being able to speak... that's enough details already.

    Actually, I don't know if I was a christian when it first happened. I was caring less about living a christian life. I just didn't tell God to leave my life because I knew that that was officially getting myself condemned. I think I had been a christian before, though, but some folks here would have theological problems with that...

    Anyway, the incident helped me greatly to get serious about God... in other words, I was back-slidden, but not anymore. It made me realize how helpless I am without God. Less than one year later, I got baptized.

    However, even after I repented and started trying to live a truly christian life, these things happened, but only a few times and much less intensely. But I guess, as we now can probably conclude from mine and Virtuous Chica's posts, it probably has something to do with your spiritual condition as a christian. I guess that if you're back sliding(however you write that), demons can mess with you. But that's my opinion based on experience, maybe someone can give us some scripture verses here.

    I know that, though I'm much better than before, I could be living a more godly life, so, pray for me or something.

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    St. Anthony the Great

    St. Anthony, the first monastic, experienced many struggles with demons in the desert wilderness. You can read the short account of his life written by St. Athanasius at:

    http://www.home.ix.netcom.com/~st_anthony/losa_main.htm

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    Thomas and Chica,

    I will gladly pray for both of you. None of us are faithful all the time; that's why Christ had to be faithful for us, on our behalf. God is always faithful to each of His people, for the sake of His Son. When He allows trouble to enter our lives it's for some purpose, and often for the purpose of turning our feet back to the right path.

    Do be assured that whatever experience a Christian may have with the forces of darkness, it is not possession.

    Aletheo, I look forward to reading about St. Anthony. For some reason my server can't open the page today, but maybe it will tomorrow. sigh

    Grace and Peace,
    cm
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by countrymouse
    [B]Thomas and Chica,

    Do be assured that whatever experience a Christian may have with the forces of darkness, it is not possession.

    Once again I know I was not "possesed" but I do believe in oppression.

    GBU,
    SE

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    Hi, Chica -

    If you are comfortable with calling your experience "oppression," I don't see a problem with that.

    Grace and Peace,
    cm
    "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity." - St. Augustine of Hippo

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