Pristine Grace
Page 1 of 3 1 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 55

Thread: A Case For Ammillennialism

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    A Case For Ammillennialism

    I've been reading a book recently by Kim Riddlebarger called "A Case For Amillennialism." Overall, the book is very well written and the amillnnial position is well-defended. I was wondering if anyone else on the list who held to a different system of interpretation had read the book and what you thought about the objections he raised against the other positions, particularly the postmillenial and preterist positions.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    upper-midwestern usa
    Posts
    73
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Coming from a Swedish Baptist background it has been very interesting to me to see that Reformed come at eschatology from an amillenial point of view, and so do Eastern Orthodox!!!!!

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Reformed folks such as myself do not view themselves as sprouting up out of nowhere or creating a new movement. The Reformed movement in the mind of Calvin and myself was a return of the church to the historic Christian faith. And so we reject chiliaism along with the church fathers. Which is why the Second Helvetic Confession states:
    We therefore condemn all who deny a real resurrection of the flesh (II Tim. 2:18), or who with John of Jerusalem, against whom Jerome wrote, do not have a correct view of the glorification of bodies. We also condmn those who thought that the devil and all the ungodly would at some time be saved, and that there would be and end to punishments. For the Lord has plainly declared: Their fire is not quenched, and their worm does not die (Mark 9:44). We further condemn Jewish dreams that there will be a golden age on earth before the Day of Judgment, and that the pious, having subdued all their godless enemies, will possess all the kingdoms of the earth. For evangelical truth in Matt., chs. 24 and 25, and Luke, ch. 18, and apostolic teaching in II Thess., ch. 2, and II Tim., chs. 3 and 4, present something quite different.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Perhaps we should define some terms. If by Ammillennialism you mean that Rev 20 is not referring to a literal 1000 years reign from a literal Jerusalem then you and I would be in agreement but that’s not saying much in this case.
    How about explaining the way you see the Church age.

    Do you A.) See the Kingdom of Darkness having more and more dominion in the world and the Church becoming more and more marginalized throughout history. B.) See the fortunes of the Church ebb and flow sometimes better sometimes worse or C.) See the Kingdom mostly but not always advancing on earth.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    The antichristian kingdom continues to grow and develop throughout history. The Christian church also grows and develops throughout history, she matures in her doctrine and God's chosen are brought into her until the end of the age. She conquerors through her suffering and persecution and God has saved for Himself a multitude which no man can number. Just prior to the judgment the beast will arise and kill the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7) which represent the church and the church will seem nonexistent to the world and seem defeated. The earth-dwellers will rejoice that those who bore witness of their idolatries are now destroyed(v. 10). Then just before the judgment the church's presence is once again made known and God destroys their opressors (vv. 11-13).

    There is no evidence in Scripture for a golden age in which Christians are in the majority prior to the judgment. The church is always described as a remnant composed of those from every nation.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    The antichristian kingdom continues to grow and develop throughout history

    Hasn’t the kingdom of darkness lost some of its influence since Christ’s Death? For example slavery is mostly a thing of the past, polytheism has been greatly diminished and human sacrifice and cannibalism is for the most part unheard of.

    she matures in her doctrine and God's chosen are brought into her until the end of the age. She conquerors through her suffering and persecution and God has saved for Himself a multitude which no man can number.

    Agreed

    Just prior to the judgment the beast will arise and kill the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7) which represent the church and the church will seem nonexistent to the world and seem defeated. The earth-dwellers will rejoice that those who bore witness of their idolatries are now destroyed(v. 10). Then just before the judgment the church's presence is once again made known and God destroys their opressors (vv. 11-13).
    I agree that a major falling away will occur just before the final judgment

    There is no evidence in Scripture for a golden age in which Christians are in the majority prior to the judgment. The church is always described as a remnant composed of those from every nation.
    Again I agree. It’s not the size of the true Church that’s at issue it’s the influence

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Hasnít the kingdom of darkness lost some of its influence since Christís Death? For example slavery is mostly a thing of the past, polytheism has been greatly diminished and human sacrifice and cannibalism is for the most part unheard of.
    Idolatry is idolatry. Polytheism is no more evil than self-worship, atheism, Allah-worship, or belly-worship. Sin just redirects itself into socially acceptable forms. It would not be viewed as socially acceptable to take your child, place him upon an altar, and sacrifice him to a rock. It is still socially acceptable to sacrifice babies (abortion) to the sex god to avoid inconvenience. Cannibalism still takes place in various locations. We have also invented new ways to sin, internet porn, new drugs, the Bachelor, we invent new gods every day. It would have been unheard of not too long ago to have the Lord's name taken in vain on television. Now it is completely acceptable, while various other words are still bleeped for whatever offense they may have to people's ears. Take a look at the 10 commandments and see what it says about taking the Lord's name in vain and the amount of time dedicated to it in relation to murder and adultery. Homosexuality is becoming more and more socially acceptable which Romans tells us is a punishment for idolatry.

    Man has ceased to do certain sins because he has found them to not be beneficial to himself in the long run. Man no longer eats other men because he himself does not wish to be eaten. Man does not perform child sacrifice as it was once done because man would not wish to think himself to be under any kind of deity, science is his god. The plowing of the wicked is sin. Eating a salad without giving glory to God for it is sin. The ungodly world continues to grow more and more intolerant of any who will not accept their creed that everything is true except absolute truth.

    Again I agree. Itís not the size of the true Church thatís at issue itís the influence
    What do you mean by influence? When the church comes and brings God's Word to the unregenerate, it hardens their hearts and causes them to sin all the more. It does not restrain sin.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Just prior to the judgment the beast will arise and kill the two witnesses (Rev. 11:7) which represent the church and the church will seem nonexistent to the world and seem defeated. The earth-dwellers will rejoice that those who bore witness of their idolatries are now destroyed(v. 10). Then just before the judgment the church's presence is once again made known and God destroys their opressors (vv. 11-13).
    I agree that a major falling away will occur just before the final judgment
    It's not a major falling away, it is destruction sent by God.

    Revelation 11:12-13 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    What do you mean by influence?
    I mean that the world in general is better off with the Church than with out it. The Church is salt and light. Am I reading you correctly to say that the physical world would be better off if the Church never existed?

    It's not a major falling away, it is destruction sent by God.
    How about a major falling away followed by destruction sent by God?

    Rev 20:7And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison, 20:8and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 20:9They went up over the breadth of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God, and devoured them.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    I mean that the world in general is better off with the Church than with out it. The Church is salt and light. Am I reading you correctly to say that the physical world would be better off if the Church never existed?
    It depends on what you mean by better. Just as God provided for Babylon chiefly out of concern for his church, so God provides rain and sunshine chiefly for the church and the rest of the inhabitants of the earth also benefit from this. But this rain and sunshine also hardens the world in their sin. This causes them to fall deeper and deeper into sin and makes them more and more miserable. Psalm 73 explains this. The preaching of the Gospel by the church also does this and also makes their condemnation all the heavier. So in an ultimate sense yes the world would be far better off without the presence of the church.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    There is no question that the world in the 1st John 15 sense would be better off with out the church but what about in the John 3:16 sense. Is the creation mentioned in Rom 8 better off with the church or not?

    I’m sorry to belabor the point but this is the root of the matter. It seems to me Ammillennialism like Pre mill is a recipe for defeatism. I think that the world is much better off because of the church’s influence. This is so that the powers that be will understand the wisdom of God as apposed to their foolishness

    Eph 3:9and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ; 3:10to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places,

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    There is no question that the world in the 1st John 15 sense would be better off with out the church but what about in the John 3:16 sense. Is the creation mentioned in Rom 8 better off with the church or not?
    The creation groans awaiting its redemption. When I said that the ungodly world would be better off without the church I was speaking of people. Animals are not moral creatures and will not be judged for sin. The creation even here though is spoken of in the organic sense, in that the whole of creation will be represented in the new heavens and the new earth, perfected. John 3:16 certainly speaks of no benefit for unbelievers.

    Iím sorry to belabor the point but this is the root of the matter. It seems to me Ammillennialism like Pre mill is a recipe for defeatism. I think that the world is much better off because of the churchís influence. This is so that the powers that be will understand the wisdom of God as apposed to their foolishness
    This is of course the argument behind all modern postmillenialism. The constant whining that amillennialism is too pessismistic. Little Scripture is appealed to and much whining about amillennialism being too pessismistic is done. Is the standard the Scriptures or what makes for the most optimistic outlook? Shouldn't we then become universalists, that seems the most optimistic position of all. The fact is that postmillennialism leads to severe depression when people look at the world around them. I know because I've known some postmillenialists. They keep saying that Christians will become political leaders and Christianize the world and blah blah blah, and when they see nothing like that is happening they start to doubt God even though God never told them this to begin with. Peter tried to convince Jesus to be more optimistic and to stop talking about all this pessimistic dying nonsense, Jesus said get thee behind me Satan.

    The martyr trully conquers. It was in the judgment of Christ that the earth was judged. It is in the killing of martyrs that the earth is judged. Read Revelation. It is the person who remains faithful and is slaughtered who conquers.

    Eph 3:9and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ; 3:10to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places,
    Paul speaks of the church making God's wisdom known to those in the heavenly places. What does this have to do with those in the ungodly world?

    2 Corinthians 2:15-16 For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. 16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    488
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Your points are well made WB. I have been increasingly leaning towards the amil position over the last few months. It makes most sense to me not only in terms of the way it interprets scripture but in how closely it matches history. I haven't got the book yet but do intend to order it. But thus far you're going to have to try harder to convince me otherwise Tomas1

    WB, I know my comments on Mat 24 differed somewhat with the quote you posted on the thread of that name but would you say they have some merit and are broadly in-line with the amil position? I realise I have a long way to go on eschatology so don't be too hard on me!

    Blessings,
    Martin

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    The creation even here though is spoken of in the organic sense, in that the whole of creation will be represented in the new heavens and the new earth, perfected.
    I agree that the perfection of the creation awaits the consummation at the very end of time but Paul says

    Romans 8:22For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

    Ammills like Premills divide history into three dispensations the time before Christ, the Church age and the time after the judgment. I think the Bible speaks of only two Before Christ and the Day of the Lord. Since the cross we’ve been in the time of the end. Jesus reigns already. The Judgment of the nations has already started. His kingdom has not completely come but it’s growing. You can see it all around you if you only look.

    The constant whining that amillennialism is too pessismistic. Little Scripture is appealed to and much whining about amillennialism being too pessismistic is done.

    I never whined that Amill is too pessimistic I’m pretty pessimistic about the near term. What I said was that Amill is defeatist. The early Baptists Puritans and Reformers were some times pessimistic but they weren’t defeatists they believed that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church even though we would have face “all kinds of trials” in the mean time.

    Little Scripture is appealed to
    You already know the scriptures that support Postmill. The Bible is full of predictions of the triumph of the kingdom of God on earth it’s just that you choose to spiritualize them and the premills place them after the Second Coming.
    Since you value tradition so much how about this for a start. This a summery of the hundreds of postmill prophecies as recognized by the folks from the Synod of Dort.
    http://www.puritans.net/hrf/sixthpoint.pdf

    Paul speaks of the church making God's wisdom known to those in the heavenly places. What does this have to do with those in the ungodly world?
    They are in charge That’s who we fight!!

    Eph 6:12For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    The word "until" in Scripture does not carry with it the same implied difference afterwards which it does in English. Paul used the expression to call attention to the present groaning which is taking place and to make his readers aware of the present reality.
    Jesus reigns already. The Judgment of the nations has already started. His kingdom has not completely come but itís growing. You can see it all around you if you only look.
    Neither I nor amillennialists deny these things.

    You already know the scriptures that support Postmill. The Bible is full of predictions of the triumph of the kingdom of God on earth itís just that you choose to spiritualize them and the premills place them after the Second Coming.
    I choose to interpret them the way the Scriptures do. Christ said that the kingdom of God is within you. Revelation shows how conquering takes place. The postmillenialist is left there with the Jews and dispensationalists on Palm Sunday.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Christ said that the kingdom of God is within you.

    Once again I agree. The question however is does the Kingdom have any good effect on the world we live in? I believe it does. If it didn’t we should just huddle up and wait for the end.

    To believe that God has no use for the present physical world eventually leads to Gnosticism.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Once again I agree. The question however is does the Kingdom have any good effect on the world we live in? I believe it does.
    Could you provide Scriptural reasons for this position as well as an explanation of the way in which the Kingdom has a good effect on the world?

    If it didnít we should just huddle up and wait for the end.
    We should obey God. The Christian life should be focused upon the worship of God. Worship is done in evangelism both by the one evangelizing and those being evangelized to. This is plenty of reason not to just huddle up and wait for the end. The Christian life is not driven by humanitarian causes. Love for God will cause us to do good to our neighbor but the advancement of the human race is not the goal of the Christian.
    To believe that God has no use for the present physical world eventually leads to Gnosticism.
    I never said God has no use for the present physical world. God uses the physical world to support the advancement of the church. It seems that you believe God uses the church for the advancement of the physical world. All of creation will be redeemed at the consumation and all of creation will be represented as I said before.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    Could you provide Scriptural reasons for this position as well as an explanation of the way in which the Kingdom has a good effect on the world?

    Lets start with Matt 13

    13:31He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field; 13:32which indeed is smaller than all seeds. But when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in its branches."
    13:33He spoke another parable to them. "The Kingdom of Heaven is like yeast, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, until it was all leavened."


    Who are the birds and the meal? It seems to me that they are references to the outside world are they not?
    As for an explanation I think when God allowed Christian abolitionists to bring forth the end of slavery it benefited both the elect and the reprobate physically on earth. This was in small part an answer to the prayer “Thy will be done on earth as well as in Heaven”. I agree that in the long run the reprobate is worse off but the long run prospects of the reprobate are up to God not me.

    Love for God will cause us to do good to our neighbor but the advancement of the human race is not the goal of the Christian.

    I agree but I think the glory of God is

    Matt5:16Even so, let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    I feel very inadequate to give a commentary on scripture (especially in this company). But since I am convinced of the plain truth of my arguments I’ll give it a shot

    1 cor 15:20But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep. 15:21For since death came by man, the resurrection of the dead also came by man. 15:22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ's, at his coming. 15:24Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father;(his reign officially passes to the father at the resurrection nothing else is left to conquer) when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 15:25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.( Notice he is even now before the resurrection putting all authority and power under his feet) 15:26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (The resurrection does not come until the powers that be are destroyed) 15:27For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him. 15:28When all things have been subjected to him, (i.e. at the resurrection) then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    8
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: A Case For Ammillennialism

    [QUOTE=tomas1]


    Who are the birds and the meal? It seems to me that they are references to the outside world are they not?
    As for an explanation I think when God allowed Christian abolitionists to bring forth the end of slavery it benefited both the elect and the reprobate physically on earth. This was in small part an answer to the prayer ďThy will be done on earth as well as in HeavenĒ. I agree that in the long run the reprobate is worse off but the long run prospects of the reprobate are up to God not me.

    QUOTE]
    The reference in my mind is to the Gentiles who will come to the same tree and be of the same lump as Jews in the Israel of God. The world has no part in the kingdom whatsoever. As to your comments on slavery, The Lord Jesus himself taught slave owners how to behave toward their slaves (or servants if you please). He never abolished slavery at all. Obviously, brutal treatment and "ownership" of slaves does not agree with scripture, but social justice was not the mission of the Master nor is it the Church's mission. Granted we are to help the "fatherless and the widow" but our primary job is to deliver a clear proclamation of the gospel. Remember also that the "Thy will be done" reference was completely fulfilled when Christ, the last Adam, fulfilled all righteousness in his life, death and resurrection ("I have come to do thy will, O God")
    Soli Deo Gloria
    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


Page 1 of 3 1 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What kind of church does everyone here attend?
    By Lammy in forum Churchianity Archive
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 11-20-05, 02:15 PM
  2. feminization of the Church
    By countrymouse in forum Old Miscellaneous Archive
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-21-02, 10:39 AM
  3. Cause and Effect
    By Dr. Szo in forum Old Miscellaneous Archive
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-27-01, 06:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •