Pristine Grace
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst ... 2
Results 21 to 31 of 31

Thread: Eternal Justification

  1. #21
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: Justification from Eternity

    Quote Originally Posted by wildboar
    Abraham Kuyper is noted as being the first to develop the doctrine of Justification from Eternity. The following link is an extract from one of his books on that subject:
    http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenth...nk/akjust2.htm
    I would say John Gill really developed it!
    This is my signature.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    115
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Justification is through Christ alone

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Gill
    I was just wondering about the doctrine of "eternal justification" that taught that the elect were justified by Christ before the world was even created. The doctrine teaches that because God elected a people to salvation before the world was created, ordained their fall, and ordained the means to their justification all before the world was created, then their justification was as good as done. There was no doubt that God would not accomplish what He planned to do, so while the declarative and constitutive aspects of justification were not accomplished, their justification was guaranteed in Christ.

    For an example as how I would understand eternal justification is let's say for instance I went to Amazon.com planning to buy a King James Bible to be delivered to my house. I HAD to have that King James Bible, and Amazon.com WAS going to ship it to me upon ordering it. There was no doubt that I wouldn't get that bible because Amazon.com is such a good company, and we can trust the US Postal Service to deliver it safely and timely to me. When I go online and click "Buy it Now", I have technically purchased the bible. That book is now purchased. However, the funds in my bank account have not yet been transferred to amazon.com. Also the book has not been delivered to me. But technically that book is a purchased book and I see that book as belonging to me.

    Just a thought.

    Brandan
    I like the analogy you use here in explaining about eternal justification. In essence-- we were bought long before we were brought to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. From God's timeframe--eternity--He has always seen His chosen people in Christ, am I looking at this correctly?

  3. #23
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: Justification is through Christ alone

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason777
    I like the analogy you use here in explaining about eternal justification. In essence-- we were bought long before we were brought to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. From God's timeframe--eternity--He has always seen His chosen people in Christ, am I looking at this correctly?
    Wow, Jason, I'm sorry I missed this. Unfortunately your question was asked at the wrong time as it was posted three days after the birth of my first born! I've been off the forum for a long time, and I think I'm gonna get back into it now as my life definitely needs this type of conversation.

    Yes definitely! God has ALWAYS seen His chosen people in Christ. This is the Calvinism in a nutshell if you ask me. Anyone who says otherwise does not understand the character of God, His love for His people, or how significant the cross is. I would say this single issue alone is a watershed issue. What you believe concerning this point of doctrine is an indicator of where you are in your relationship with God in my opinion. If God didn't see me in Christ from eternity than HE IS NOT IMMUTABLE; He didn't always love me; His affections for me changed (after all, how can the Father love those who aren't in Christ?); and Christ's death on the cross brought the Father's will in line with Christ's. That last point alone is an attack on the UNITY and singularity of God's will and is utterly reprehensible in my opinion. The theological ramifications wrought by believing the alterior doctrine are so great that it will affect your understanding of GRACE in the Gospel in my opinion.

    If you are in anyway interested in this topic at all, PLEASE GET THIS BOOK!

    John Gill And Justification From Eternity: A Tercentenary Appreciation, 1697-1997.
    George M. Ella


    http://www.standardbearer.org/view.asp?isbn=0952707437
    This is my signature.

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    488
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    It's great to see you back DG! We missed you!

    Hope you're getting enough sleep at night now so as not to fall asleep at your computer in the evenings!

    Warm regards in Christ Jesus,
    Martin

  5. #25
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeuos Eleos
    It's great to see you back DG! We missed you!

    Hope you're getting enough sleep at night now so as not to fall asleep at your computer in the evenings!

    Warm regards in Christ Jesus,
    Martin
    Awwwe shucks... It's nice now that Cole is sleeping through the night. I'm glad to be back..
    This is my signature.

  6. #26
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Hawaiian Islands
    Posts
    3,672
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    74
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    119
    Thanked in
    65 Posts

    Re: John Gill and Eternal Justification

    I do not believe that Gill developed this doctrine. He resurrected the doctrine from Paul that had been condemned and renounced by the so-called 'fathers.'

    Did this type of corruption happen with any OTHER apostolic doctrines? A very good question, hopefully (if other enlightened Christians will ask it as I do).
    I got four things to live by: don't say nothin' that will hurt anybody; don't give advice--no one will take it anyway; don't complain; don't explain. Walter Scott

  7. #27
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: John Gill and Eternal Justification

    Quote Originally Posted by BillTwisse
    I do not believe that Gill developed this doctrine. He resurrected the doctrine from Paul that had been condemned and renounced by the so-called 'fathers.'

    Did this type of corruption happen with any OTHER apostolic doctrines? A very good question, hopefully (if other enlightened Christians will ask it as I do).
    Hmmm, Justification by Faith alone resurrected by Luther???? I agree with you that technically Gill didn't develop it - surely Paul understood it and taught it. After all, Gill lifts it from Paul's writings directly.
    This is my signature.

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    Actually Tobias Crisp taught eternal justification prior to John Gill. I am unsure as to the date of the writing (taken from http://www.gospeltruth.net/Antinomia...inom_chap7.htm) but Crisp lived from 1600-1643.

    Though a believer does sin, yet he is not to be reckoned as a sinner; his sins are reckoned to be taken away from him. God reckons not his sin to be his; he reckons it Christ's, therefore he cannot reckon it to be his. Christ does justify a person before he believes; we do not believe that we may be justified, but because we are justified. The elect are justified from eternity, at Christ's death; and the latest time is before we are born. It is a received conceit among persons that our obedience is the way to heaven; but I must tell you, all this sanctification of life is not a jot the way of that justified person to heaven.
    I remembered Engelsma mentioning Crisp in a discussion about eternal justification we had in his dutch class. He talked about how it is often claimed that eternal justification leads to antinomianism, especially by Banner of Truth and that Tobias Crisp is especially railed against in this regard but that he had read all these supposed antinomians who held to eternal justification and said that none of them actually were.

    I found similar statements to the above in some of the on-line sermons by Crisp but was unable to track down this exact quote. If someone has the CD-ROM with his works on it and can track it down for me that would be great.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  9. #29
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    I have all of Crisps works on CDROM
    This is my signature.

  10. #30
    Administrator Brandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    5,831
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    147
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    93
    Thanked in
    61 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    Here are all of the works of Tobias Crisp in PDF Format...
    Attached Files Attached Files
    This is my signature.

  11. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Middleville, MI
    Posts
    3,577
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Eternal Justification

    Darth Gill:

    Thank you. I have read some from the pdf files you posted and some from where it is posted on-line. I really enjoy reading Crisp. I plan on picking up the four volume set in hardcopy form tomorrow and hope to make my way through it. I also noticed he was mentioned in Bavinck's Reformed Dogmatics. I'm really enjoying Bavinck as well and looking forward to reading the volumes as they are released (not quite excited enough to make my way through the Dutch though, so I'll wait for the translations to be released.

    Bavinck agrees that Crisp is falsely called an antinomian. He notes that in England neonomianism (the teaching that ground of justification lays in faith) was being taught by men such as John Goodwin, Richard Baxter, Dr. Dan. Williams, and Benjamin Woodbridge. He says that those who opposed this teaching are wrongly labeled antinomians and are actually antineonomians who located the ground of righteous exclusively in the righteousness of Christ. Among these men he lists Dr. Crisp, Dr. Tully, Isaac Chauncy, John Eaton, William Eyre, Witsius, James Buchanan, and W. Gass. I've managed to locate some of the writings of Eyre, Tully, Witsius, Buchanan, and Chauncy and they're quite interesting but I don't find any of them as enjoyable to read as Crisp.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst ... 2

Similar Threads

  1. Food for thought
    By ugly_gaunt_cow in forum General Discussion Archive
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-01-05, 10:50 AM
  2. Chaplain of U.S. House to celebrate Red Mass in Manchester
    By Reformed Presby in forum General Discussion Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-18-05, 08:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •