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Thread: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Dear Ivor:

    A humble request:

    A little bit of punctuation and clarity in your questions will be very helpful to me (and perhaps others) in understanding your posts and exactly what is the meaning of them. It will also help us understand the "tone" of your questions.

    If you don't mind me asking: Is English your first language? I will understand if it is not since English is not my first language either. However, I strive to write in such a way that readers can understand without cryptanalysis!

    Remember: Writers write for readers!

    If this bothers you as it bothers me not to find common garmmatical rules in your posts, which prevents me from understanding them FULLY, please, disregard anything I said here.

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

  2. #62
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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    Disciple going back through the thread you have not replied to sermon 18 the man you reccomended perhaps you have not heard it its about common grace if you have not got to it yet I can wait. Ivor Thomas.
    i was not aware it actually needed responding to...i thought it was just a comment you were making. in addition, i don't know that i will always respond to antagonistic requests (not to imply that yours was such...because i cannot tell) that seem to qualify as attacking, labelling others as unregenerate or heretic so as to not actually listen to/consider what they are saying (ad hominem), being sectarian, resembling OTC tactics, etc.

    i am still only on message #3 and i'm listening to them all the way through in their actual context (i'm not just trying to listen to the ones that i think i'll disagree with so that i might rule out everything he says on that basis...i don't want to practice ad hominem tactics in my acquisition of information). in addition, i recognize/allow considerable latitude within the calvinist and arminian camps. more to the point, i realize that not every arminian is a vehement calvinist hating, grace rejecting, gospel perverting monster and that not every infralapsarian calvinist who sees little problem with common grace, the free offer, and duty faith is a closet or crypto-arminian.

    personally, i try to practice humility and not pretend like i have all of the answers and that i'm (or my group is) the standard for all that is true and right and orthodox. i'm willing to listen and consider anything (at least to give it a fair hearing, strive to understand it, embracing what accords with Scripture and rejecting what does not), regardless of its source. read the articles i posted and you'll get an idea of where i'm coming from.

    i have little tolerance for the arrogant sectarianism and needless division that is going on in Christianity today. i tire of all of the rhetoric and warring among Christians over every jot and tittle of people's pet systems, barring people from heaven because they do not agree with our little sect. it reminds me of the sects of judaism in the first century picking eachother apart and putting themselves at the pearly gates to determine whether or not God should let them into His kingdom.

    Mt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in...15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

    Lk 11:52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Myself I would have checked out the articles first before I recomended them to anyone, but your hatred for otc etc, I find quite disturbing according to the scriptures you used at the end of your letter, no I was not being antagonistic,common grace, duty faith , and the free offer, are what I stand against. you by what you have said here obviously think such things are alright. Just say I listened to some more of them not just number 18 but that one listened to all through made me cringe. Ivor Thomas.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    Myself I would have checked out the articles first before I recomended them to anyone
    i don't actually recall even commenting on the nature of the sermons as to recommending them (as if to give a stamp of approval of orthodoxy or 100% error-free...if that's how you understood it). in fact, here's what i actually said: "here is a pretty extensive audio series on the subject of calvinism (i've only begun to listen to the first session...there are 75!!!)." i had heard good things about them from others and the author was listed in several bibliographies. i understood they did a good job of detailing the variety within calvinism (as to its history and theology)...thus my posting of the link. i like to treat people like grown-ups and allow them the opportunity to listen/read and decide for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    , but your hatred for otc etc, I find quite disturbing according to the scriptures you used at the end of your letter,
    i'm not sure where this comes from. hatred for them?...no. sorrow at and intolerance for their doctrine of hatred?...yes. do you believe that the OTC rhetoric includes a shutting off of the kingdom of heaven to those who don't agree with them and declarations of whether someone is regenerate or not based on whether or not they agree with the OTC party-line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    no I was not being antagonistic
    thank you. no need to take anything i said personally. as i said, i wasn't trying to accuse you of anything...just telling you where i stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    ,common grace, duty faith , and the free offer, are what I stand against.
    fair enough. but like i said, i just do not make Christianity or calvinism as narrow as you seem to be. i recognize, for example, that the calvinist camp is broader than just one brand (e.g., the OTC brand). i also can see both sides of the debate and i can understand the correctives that each group are trying to highlight. i try to not be so quick to dismiss something simply because of its source but rather attempt to understand what is behind what is being said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    you by what you have said here obviously think such things are alright.
    and so will you dismiss everything i say because i think such things are alright? or will you actually try and understand what is being said and actually interact with the discussion? what if someone thinks such things are alright (but does not personally embrace them)? will you treat them differently because they differ with you here? will you bar them from the kingdom of heaven because they don't see things the way you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    Just say I listened to some more of them not just number 18 but that one listened to all through made me cringe.
    just say I listened??? did you or did you not? did you listen to more than those you thought you'd disagree with? if you found that you disagreed with one thing in the all the messages, would you then dismiss the whole series on that basis? i'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. perhaps you could elaborate. thanks.
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    I set out to listen to enjoy i started at number one then i picked another one and then 18. I dont stop for one or two errors and i do try to glean truth from what i hear.; read,; but i decide how much error to except, and it just happened to much on 18, i listened first of all because its a subject of interest to me and not to find fault, which i did not know was there till i listened.you say you embrace truth i embrace truth and reject lies, Thanks. Ivor Thomas ..

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    I set out to listen to enjoy i started at number one then i picked another one and then 18. I dont stop for one or two errors and i do try to glean truth from what i hear.; read,; but i decide how much error to except, and it just happened to much on 18, i listened first of all because its a subject of interest to me and not to find fault, which i did not know was there till i listened.
    thanks for your explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    you say you embrace truth i embrace truth and reject lies, Thanks. Ivor Thomas ..
    i try and follow the maxim, "examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good, abstain from every form of evil." in general, i also try and give people the benefit of the doubt and try to understand their motives in the best possible light. i aslo try and not dismiss everything a person a says just because they have some error in my opinion. out of curiosity, do you believe that it is possible for any human to have a complete theology that is 100% error-free?
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    CHRIST IN ME THE HOPE OF GLORY. Ivor Thomas.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    CHRIST IN ME THE HOPE OF GLORY. Ivor Thomas.
    what is this a response to? i don't mean to offend ivor, but some of your posts are awefully cryptic.
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    To know Jesus Christ to have Him indwelt,The Holy Spirit does this in us.Is theology 100percent complete, He teaches us truth 100 percent and enables us to take hold of it, or grasp it as He shows truth to us. Ivor Thomas.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    To know Jesus Christ to have Him indwelt,The Holy Spirit does this in us.Is theology 100percent complete, He teaches us truth 100 percent and enables us to take hold of it, or grasp it as He shows truth to us. Ivor Thomas.
    so would you say that you are therefore infallible--100% error-free in your theology? and are the only people who can possibly be regenerate, those who agree 100% in all areas with you? what knowledge does someone have to have in order to be regenerate in your opinion?

    again, i'm trying to understand what you are saying--what you are currently saying is somewhat fuzzy. could you please be a bit more explicit? thanks.
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by disciple
    so would you say that you are therefore infallible--100% error-free in your theology? and are the only people who can possibly be regenerate, those who agree 100% in all areas with you? what knowledge does someone have to have in order to be regenerate in your opinion?

    again, i'm trying to understand what you are saying--what you are currently saying is somewhat fuzzy. could you please be a bit more explicit? thanks.
    Yeah! I would like to know as well if you are infallible in your theology. After all, I would love to begin to address you as Apostle Ivor

    As for me, thank God, the more imperfect and weak I am before God, he teaches me "theologically 100%" that I am open and eligible for His Perfection...

    I am also reminded that Jesus Christ only condemned and had problems with one simple group of people throughout His ministry here on earth: Those who declared that they were 100% theologically complete. Those who "got the blessings" were the Samaritan woman, the Syrophonetian woman, the woman with issue of blood, the centurion and his servant and a few others who were not belonging to the group of those who were "theologically 100% complete".

    Milt
    Grace Ambassador
    A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace

    My pledge to other members:
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by disciple
    so would you say that you are therefore infallible--100% error-free in your theology? and are the only people who can possibly be regenerate, those who agree 100% in all areas with you? what knowledge does someone have to have in order to be regenerate in your opinion?

    again, i'm trying to understand what you are saying--what you are currently saying is somewhat fuzzy. could you please be a bit more explicit? thanks.
    You write the only people what are you trying to infer, ?dont you mean person, knowledge comes on and after regeneration, surely you have read my other posts, we where saved at the cross there is nothing we can do to add to that, then it is applied to us by regeneration in time, then truth made clear to us by the Holy Spirit. Ivor Thomas.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceAmbassador
    Yeah! I would like to know as well if you are infallible in your theology. After all, I would love to begin to address you as Apostle Ivor

    As for me, thank God, the more imperfect and weak I am before God, he teaches me "theologically 100%" that I am open and eligible for His Perfection...

    I am also reminded that Jesus Christ only condemned and had problems with one simple group of people throughout His ministry here on earth: Those who declared that they were 100% theologically complete. Those who "got the blessings" were the Samaritan woman, the Syrophonetian woman, the woman with issue of blood, the centurion and his servant and a few others who were not belonging to the group of those who were "theologically 100% complete".

    Milt
    Your the one who is addressed in the nearest equivellent in English to Apostle [Grace Ambassader] sounds like Apostle to me;. No while i am in this body im just ivor. Milt it is Christ in me that makes me complete of myself i can do nothing. By the way why are you having ago at me. Ivor Thomas.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Ok,

    Let's stop the conversation right here... This is not productive at all. I'm closing this thread.

    Brandan
    This is my signature.

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    Re: A Few Thoughts on Hyper Calvinism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    You write the only people what are you trying to infer, ?
    i have no idea what you're trying to say here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    dont you mean person, knowledge comes on and after regeneration, surely you have read my other posts,
    once again, i'm at a loss as to understand what this means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Thomas
    we where saved at the cross there is nothing we can do to add to that, then it is applied to us by regeneration in time, then truth made clear to us by the Holy Spirit. Ivor Thomas.
    so woud you say that if someone doesn't have 100% correct theology after supposedly being regenerated in time that this indicates that they are actually unregenerate? also, presuming you are regenerate, do you now have 100% error-free theology? i'm still struggling with understanding you here. perhaps you could elaborate some more. thanks.
    When I get a little money, I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food and clothes.
    --Erasmus

    A room without books is a body without soul.
    --Cicero

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