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Todd Nibert

Obey The Pastor?

Hebrews 13:17-19
Todd Nibert July, 3 2024 Video & Audio
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In his sermon titled "Obey The Pastor?" based on Hebrews 13:17-19, Todd Nibert addresses the Reformed theological concept of church authority and the relationship between pastors and their congregations. He argues that the phrase "obey them that have the rule over you" should be understood as a call to be persuaded by pastors who are faithful to the Word of God, rather than as a demand for blind submission or authoritarianism. Nibert emphasizes the significance of the pastor's role as a shepherd who is tasked with preaching the gospel and watching over the souls of the congregation, stating that true submission arises from a willingness to follow those who follow Christ. He supports his claims with Scripture references such as Ephesians 4:11-12 and Romans 10:14-15, which highlight the essentiality of God-called preachers and their purpose in edifying the church. The practical significance of this sermon lies in encouraging mutual respect and encouragement between pastors and church members, fostering a community centered on biblical truth.

Key Quotes

“If God has called a man to preach the gospel, that man is persuading me.”

“You only submit because you want to, willingly. If somebody forces you to submit, it's not submission.”

“If he's preaching anything else, God never called him. He's a mama called preacher, a seminary called preacher, but not a God called preacher.”

“Men ought always to pray and not to faint.”

Sermon Transcript

Auto-generated transcript • May contain errors

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Now, if I came to you armed with
this scripture and said, you need to obey me because I have
the rule over you and you need to submit yourself to me, you'd chafe at that, wouldn't
you? I know the Bible says that, but
what does that mean? If you were the pastor of the
Todd's Road Grace Church and I came in and said, listen, you
need to submit to my rule. I rule over you and you need
to do what I say to do. I would not like that. As a matter
of fact, I don't know what's wrong with me, But I don't like
people telling me what to do at all. I just don't like that.
It just gets under my skin. She tells me what to do, and
I don't respond real well to it. I don't know if that's being
American. I don't know what it is. But
I would have a tendency to not fall in line with that kind of
thinking. If someone commands blind submission
to their authority, I have to have more of a reason than that,
and I expect you feel the same way. What does he mean by obey
them that have the rule over you? And submit yourselves to
such, for they watch for your souls as they that must give
account. I've entitled this message, Obey the Pastor? What is meant by this passage
of scripture? Because I know that it's a lot
of pastors' favorite verse. They like to will this. But what
does it mean? In verse 17, obey them that have
the rule over you is the word that is generally translated,
be persuaded. In Acts 28, 23, he expounded
and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning
Jesus. I know whom I have believed and
am persuaded that he is able. Be persuaded. There's a difference. Be persuaded
by them that have the rules over you, and my marginal reading
says them that are your guides, them that are your leaders. Be persuaded by them that are
your guides, them that lead. The Apostle Paul said, follow
me as I follow Christ. You know what? If somebody's
following Christ, I can follow that man. That's all it takes. If they follow Christ, I'm getting
in line by the grace of God. If I don't follow the man that's
following Christ, I'm not following Christ either. That's very important
to understand that. I think of those people at the
first of first Corinthians where some said I'm of Paul, others
I'm of Apollos, some said I'm of Cephas or Peter, and the real
pious one said I don't follow any man, I'm of Christ. I follow
Christ. If you don't follow a man who
follows Christ, you're not following Christ himself. Now, there is
an office that God has appointed in the church called the pastor.
It's a scriptural word. Also called the elder and also
called the bishop. Same office. The pastor has something
to do with feeding the sheep with the word of God and protecting
from wolves. The elder has something to do
with spiritual maturity. Do you remember how Paul said,
not a novice? No novice has any business preaching the gospel,
lest they fall into pride in the snare of the devil. And then
the bishop is the overseer. Would you turn with me to Ephesians
chapter four for a moment? Verse 11. And he gave, this is talking
about these gifts he gives. You can read about it in verses
eight through 10, but he tells what these gifts are. He gave
some apostles. Now, what's an apostle? There
were only 12. If someone claims to be an apostle
today, they're a liar. There were only 12. We read of
the 12 apostles of the Lamb. They were people who saw Christ
directly and received their commission from him directly. When Judas
fell, Paul took his place. There are only 12 apostles and
there are none today. And then he speaks of prophets.
Prophets would say, thus saith the Lord. And it's what the Lord
said. We didn't have the full canon of scripture at that time.
And so they would say, thus saith the Lord, it'd be the Lord's
word. That is what he said. But now that we have the full
canon scripture, there are no prophets. What about these evangelists? Well, that's somebody that's
a pastor. No, that's not a pastor like it. And a missionary, Walter
Groover. was a evangelist in Mexico. He wasn't a pastor. They preached
to the people there. And Cody Groover was an evangelist,
a missionary. The same thing. They didn't pastor
churches. But the Lord blessed their work. I was there just
last year. And they don't need evangelists anymore. There are
some solid men preaching the gospel there. So there is an
office, I believe, still of evangelists. But then there's the pastor teacher. That's why I claim to be. the
pastor teacher. Now their purpose, verse 11,
he gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors
and teachers or the pastor teacher. And here's the purpose for the
perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for
the edifying, the building up of the body of Now this is a
God-given office and God calls men to fulfill this office. That's who he's talking about
when he's talking about them that are your guides. Be persuaded
by them that are your guides. He's talking about the pastor.
Romans chapter 10. How shall they call upon him
whom they've not heard? How can they hear without a preacher? They can't. Somebody says, you
say you've got to hear a preacher preach. Well, that's what God
said. You mean God has to have a preacher?
No, he could use an angel if he wanted to. He could speak
directly if he wanted to. There's no question about that,
but still the scripture says, if pleased God by the foolish,
there's no preaching to save them that believe. Titus 1.3,
God has manifested his word through preaching, which is committed
unto my trust. How shall they hear without a
preacher? And how shall they preach except they be sent? No
man can preach unless God has sent him for this. Now, while there is a call of
God to preach the gospel, there are many men who claim to be
called of God that God never called. Most preachers would
go under that designation. Most. Let me show you a scripture
in Jeremiah chapter 14, if you turn there briefly, Jeremiah
14. Verse 14, Jeremiah 14, verse
14. Then the Lord said unto me, speaking
to Jeremiah, the prophets prophesy lies in my name. I sent them not. Neither have
I commanded them, neither spake unto them. I never had a word
to say to them, didn't command them to preach. They prophesy
unto you a false vision and divination and a thing of naught and the
deceit of their heart. Now that would describe most
of what goes on under the name of preaching. Now do you remember
when the Lord said, Enter in at the straight gate, for wide
is the gate, and broad is the way that leads to destruction,
and many there be that go in there at, but straight is the
gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there
be that find it. What did he say next? Beware
of false prophets who come unto you in sheep's clothing, but
they are wolves. While you're in Jeremiah, turn
for a moment to Jeremiah 23. Verse 31. Jeremiah 23, verse 31. God says, behold, I'm against
the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues and say,
he saith. The Lord said this. Behold, I'm
against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do
tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies and by their
likeness. Yet I sent them not, nor commanded
them. Therefore they shall not profit
this people at all. There is no saving benefit that
ever comes from a false prophet. Somebody says, can't God use
them? The question is, does he? No. He said, they shall not profit
these people at all. Now, a man that doesn't preach
the truth was never called of God to preach the gospel. A man that does not fit the qualifications
of 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, where we're given the qualifications
of a pastor, if he doesn't fit those qualifications, God never
called him to preach the gospel. And the church will recognize
someone that God has called to preach the gospel. You know,
when I'm hearing somebody, I know if God's called them. You know
how? Because I'm given a sense of
reverence and awe of the Lord in their preaching. They preach
who he is. And your response is to bow down
in reverence and awe at the greatness of the one being preached. This is not like delivering a
lecture on a subject. There's something supernatural
about preaching. And you're given a sense of the awe and glory
and greatness of God. Not only that, when I'm hearing
somebody that's truly called to preach the gospel, I hear
the gospel. And I believe the gospel. They're preaching. And
I find assurance. That's the gospel I believe.
I'm saved. I love to hear a gospel message
that lets me know I'm saved. I hate to hear a gospel message
that makes me think, well, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe
I'm not measuring up. What it is, I'm hearing works
at that time. I want to hear a message that gives me the assurance
of Christ's favor toward me. The gospel. Now, God's people
recognize If a man is called to preach the gospel, somebody
says, how come people can't see it? Well, there's a reason if
that's the way a man feels. People don't see that I'm called
to preach. Well, God's people will know. Just sure of that. Now this is a calling and not
a profession. The only thing worse than a career
politician is a career preacher. This is a calling. It's not a
means of making a living. It's not a job. He that is called
of God, look down in verse seven of Hebrews chapter 13, turn back
there. Hebrews 13. Remember them. which have the
rule over you. And a better way to translate
that would be, remember them that are your guides, who have
spoken to you the word of God. That's what they've done. That's
how you know they're of God. They've spoken to you the word of God.
Remember them that are your guides. Remember them. First Thessalonians,
go ahead and hold your finger there. I want you to look at
these scriptures for yourself. I would quote them, but I think
sometimes it's better to look at them. 1 Thessalonians chapter
5. We beseech you, brethren, to
know them which, verse 12, 1 Thessalonians 5 verse 12. We beseech you, brethren,
to know them which labor among you and are over you in the Lord
and admonish you and to esteem them very highly in love for
their works sake. and be at peace among yourselves. Now he says, we beseech you that
you know them and remember them. Remember them in prayer. Pray
for me. Pray that the Lord's hand would
be upon me. Pray that I might not give my own thoughts and
my own opinions. Pray for me that I continually
be fearful. of what I'm doing. Not with some
kind of cocksure attitude, but fearful. Paul said I was with
you in weakness and in fear and much trembling. Pray for me that
the Lord keeps me low, that I'm able to preach his gospel. Pray
for me. Be an encouragement to me. Be
an encouragement to the pastor. Well, I'm afraid if I say something
to him, it'll make him proud. Don't worry about that. The Lord
knows how to keep people down. And he certainly knows how to
keep me down. I'm continually reminded of my
own inadequacies and sinfulness and shortcomings. There's not
a time when I'm not made to be aware of them. And the Lord,
you know, pride has no place in the pulpit. It certainly doesn't. Remember, remember them. Encourage them. Now, look what
it says next though. I love this. Remember them which
have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God. Now this is, this is what counts.
They've spoken to you the word of God. The word. Timothy preached the
word. I'm not talking about just quoting
scriptures. They preached the gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ,
the gospel of God. They've preached election by
the Father. God chose who'd be saved before
time began. Redemption by the Son. Jesus
Christ successfully redeemed everybody he died for. There's
no possibility that somebody that he died for be lost. There
won't be anybody in hell that he died for. The amazing regenerating
work of God the Holy Spirit where He comes in power and gives life. The Gospel. They preach to you
the Word of God. That's what they've done. You've
got the scripture that you can be like the noble Bereans to
see if that's what they're preaching. Uh, to search the scriptures
daily, whether they, these things be so, but they have preached
the word. They preach Christ and him crucified. They preach the whole counsel
of God. They preach the state of man,
dead, unable to say themselves, totally dependent upon the grace
of God for all things. They preach the sufficiency of
Jesus Christ, and that's all they preach. I love what Paul
said when he said, I've determined not to know anything among you
save Jesus Christ and him crucified. That's the only message. If he's
preaching anything else, God never called him. He's a mama
called preacher, a seminary called preacher, but not a God called
preacher. A God called preacher preaches the gospel. Notice it says in verse seven,
remember them which have the rule over you have spoken to
you the word of God, whose faith follow. Whose faith follow. And let me tell you this right
now, while I'm talking to you, I am looking to Jesus Christ
only as all that God requires of me. I'm resting in him. His righteousness is the only
righteousness I have. I'm completely satisfied with
his shed blood as enough to make me perfect before God and holy
before God. Like Paul said, 2 Timothy 1.12,
I know whom I have believed. I'm persuaded. That's the word
translated obey. I'm persuaded that he is able
to keep that which I've committed to him against that day. Whose
faith follow? And look what it says next. I
love this. Considering the end or the goal of their conversation.
Jesus Christ. The same. Yesterday, today, and
forever. Now that's the goal of any preacher's
conversation, any believer's conversation. We've got the same
goal. Jesus Christ. Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins. Christ, God's
anointed. prophet, the word of God, Christ,
God's anointed priest, the one who, if he brings me before the
Father, I must be saved. God, Christ, God's anointed King,
the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords. That's the only way he's
preached. Not some weak Jesus who wants things but can't have
them unless you let him have his way. No, that's a false Jesus.
We preach him who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That is who He is. Jesus Christ, and I love this,
the same. Yesterday, today, and forever. This is speaking of the immutability
of Jesus Christ. That can only be said of God.
It can't be said of anybody else. Jesus Christ the same. Me and
you change every second. Up here, down there. He's the
same yesterday. Whatever he was yesterday, he
is today. Whatever he is today, he will
still be tomorrow. He's the same because he's immutable
God. Jesus Christ. That's the end
of our conversation. That's the end of your conversation.
That's the only hope you have. Jesus Christ the same yesterday. Today and forever. Because of who he is, I love
what the writer of the Hebrews said in Hebrews 7.25, wherefore
he is able to save them to the uttermost that come to God by
him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Now back to verse 17. Here he
says, obey them. that have the rule over you,
and submit yourselves. For they watch for your souls,
as they that must give an account, that they may do it with joy,
and not with grief, for this is unprofitable for you. Now,
when he says obey them that have the rule over you, does that
mean obey their commands? Here's what you need to do. Here's
what you need to do with your time. Here's where you need to
go. Here's how you need to spend your money. Here's what you can't
do. Is that what that's talking about? No, not remotely. Any preacher would
find it a very wise thing to just mind his own business. Don't
try to get into people's business. Try to tell them what to do.
It doesn't mean obey his commands. As far as that goes, Peter said
to the elders in 1 Peter 5, 3, neither as being lords over God's
heritage, thinking you have some kind of special authority, but
being examples to the flock. That's the way to lead, to be
an example to the flock. Now, I said earlier, this word
is be persuaded by. If God has called a man to preach
the gospel, that man is persuading me. That's involved in preaching. I'm seeking to persuade you to
believe what God's word says. This is not, like I said, this
is not just like delivering an academic lecture. It's kind of
like just spitting out the facts and see what happens. No, there's
a persuasion going on. I want to persuade you to believe
the gospel. I believe the gospel. I want
to persuade you to believe the gospel. That's what preaching
is. It's declaring the truth, but it's persuading. That's what
preachers do. I want to persuade you to find
your all in Christ. Turn with me for a moment to
Acts chapter 20. Acts chapter 20. Now Paul had been giving a summary
of the ministry, and he said in verse 18, and when they were
come to him, he said unto them, You know from the first day that
I came into Asia, after what manner I've been with you at
all seasons, serving the Lord. How? With all humility of mind,
and with many tears, and Temptations which befell me by the lying
way of the Jews, the religious people don't have any love for
the gospel. He says, I kept back nothing that was profitable unto
you, but have showed you and have taught you publicly and
from house to house, testifying both to the Jews and also to
the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord
Jesus Christ. Now there's the true preacher's
message. Repentance toward God. Your average person think, well,
if you repent, you repent of your sins, you're real sorry,
and you promise not to commit them anymore. I don't believe in luck, but
my thought is good luck. That's not really what repentance
means in the first place. We ought not sin. I'm not in
any way saying sin's ever okay, but repentance is a change of
mind. It's a change of mind concerning the character of God. I used
to didn't like his character. I used to didn't like his holiness.
He's too strict. His law's too severe. I didn't
like his sovereignty that he saved whom he will. My mind's
been changed. I love it now. I love who he
is. I love all of his attributes.
My mind has been changed. Now, I love what Henry Mayhem
said. Repentance is a change of mind that manifests itself
from a change of masters that ends in a change of motives and
a change of manners. Four M's. Change of mind, change
of masters, change of motives, change of manners. Repentance
toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. Look to Christ
only. Don't look anywhere else. Don't
look at yourself. Don't look at your walk. Don't look at your
works. Don't look at somebody else. Don't look back to the
past. Don't look to what you're gonna do in the future. Look
to Christ right now alone. Nothing more, nothing less. Jesus
Christ. repentance toward God, and faith
toward the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, I want to persuade you with
this scripture. Christ Jesus, this is a faithful
saying. It's worthy of all acceptation.
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom
I am chief, I want to persuade you to find that as the greatest
thing you've ever heard and to hang the salvation of your soul
on the truthfulness of that glorious statement. Christ Jesus came
into the world to save sinners. Are you a sinner? Christ came to save you. Believe
that. believe that. That's what gospel
preaching is. It's persuading. Am I preaching the gospel of
the scripture? To be like the noble Bereans and search the
scriptures daily, whether these things be so. And if you're persuaded
to believe I'm preaching the gospel, if you're persuaded that
I'm preaching God's word, then you are willing to submit yourself
to that. Now, submission, submission.
You know, when we were first married, one of my favorite things
to say to Lynn was submit. It didn't work. As a matter of
fact, I can still think of some of the looks of utter contempt
I would get when I would say that. Well, she should have submitted. But the thing is, you only submit
because you want to, willingly. If somebody forces
you to submit, it's not submission. That's just being manipulated,
being bullied. That's not submission. Submission
is willingly doing what... Don't you want to be totally
submitted to Jesus Christ? That's what you want. Now if
I say, you need to submit. Oh, you don't like that. I want to
submit to the Lord Jesus Christ. I want to willingly walk with
him. That's what I want to do. And if a man's preaching the
gospel, I want to submit to what he's saying. I want to be persuaded
by what he's saying if God sent him and if he is preaching the
gospel. Obey them that have the rule
over you and submit yourselves for they watch for your souls. as they that must give account,
that they may do it with joy and not with grief, for that
is unprofitable for you." Now he says in this thing of gospel
preaching, they watch for your souls as accountable to God. Now this is something that weighs
on me, that I'm accountable to God for
what you hear. And that weighs on me. I do not want to give my thoughts
and my opinions. I want to give what God's word
says. And in this thing of the preacher
or the pastor or the elder or whatever it is, I love the people
I'm preaching to. I love them. I call your name
before the Lord asking for his mercy upon you. Every day, every
day, I'm supposed to give myself to prayer and to the ministry
of the word. That's what a preacher is supposed
to do. And this thing of giving account, giving account, he says,
make sure they can do it when they're giving an account of
you to the Lord, make sure they can do it with joy and not with grief.
And you know, most people in this church I gotta tell the story. I just
heard this this week. Susan was, my sister Susan retired
and she was looking at old letters and she got a letter from Henry
and she quoted Henry where he was mad at the congregation and
said some things to him and mom had to figure out who it was
and she was, you know, pointing it out, you know, and I thought
that is so, that's what we do. Who's he mad at? Don't even think
that way. Who's he talking about? But there
are some that gives joy and there's some that give grief. and more
they give joy than they give grief, but there are some that
give grief. And the writer says, if you give your pastor grief
in giving an account to you, it's not profitable for you.
It's not for your good. He says, they watch for your
souls as they that must give an account that they may do it
with joy and not with grief, for this is not profitable for
you. Now pray for us. Pray for us. I covet your prayers. Pray for us, for we trust we
have a good conscience and all things willing to live honestly.
We hope that about ourselves. We think that about ourselves.
If we're not deceived, that's the truth about ourselves, but
we're aware of our own weakness. So pray for us. In verse 19, we'll close with
this. But I beseech you rather to do this prayer that I may
be restored to you the sooner. That's an unusual statement,
isn't it? I would be, evidently he was in prison, and he's saying,
through your prayers, I'll be restored to you sooner than I
would have had you not prayed for me. Now that's what he says.
Now, somebody says, make that make sense. Everything is determined by God.
Everything is decreed by God. Everything's set. The lot is
cast in the lap. The whole disposing thereof is
of the Lord. I believe in absolute predestination
of all things. And that being true, the writer
also said, if you pray for me, I'll get restored sooner than
I would have. I'll take that and run with it. Men ought always to pray and
not to faint. Don't have some kind of fatalistic
view of the world. Well, there's no point in praying.
God's already determined everything. Don't pray. Pray for us, and
in this prayer we'll be restored all the sooner. Oh, may the Lord
make me and you men and women of prayer. Now, I can't understand
all that. I don't, I can't understand how
everything's decreed and nothing's gonna change, and yet we're called
upon to pray and something's gonna happen all the sooner,
but that's what the word says. And I don't need to make it logical.
All I gotta do is believe it. That's all I'm concerned about,
so. obey your pastor. Let's pray. Lord, how we thank you for your
word. Lord, we pray for your grace upon us. We pray for your grace on this
assembly. We pray that you would enable us to preach the gospel
in this area. We pray that we might see men
and women brought to a saving knowledge of thy dear son. In
Christ's name we pray, amen.
Todd Nibert
About Todd Nibert
Todd Nibert is pastor of Todd's Road Grace Church in Lexington, Kentucky.

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