Funeral sermon for Brandan's grandmother, Flo Mae Weaver.
Sermon Transcript
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I see the sky, the same direction. I know I'm not too close, but
I know ? To tell my friends what I am
about ? ? And the days I've missed with you here are gone ? I shall sing, I shall sing, I shall
sing, I shall sing, I shall sing, I shall sing, ? And softly weep ? ? In the heights
of the mountains ? ? Where our sacred youths lie ? ? And there
in the mountains ? ? Lays the world's poor youths ? ? The earth
shall soon be full of its youths ? ? On the edge so high ? ? But I
will hold you near ? ? We will never part ? There is a time for everything
and a season for every activity under the heavens. A time to
be born and a time to die. A time to plant and a time to
uproot. A time to kill and a time to
heal. A time to tear down and a time
to build. A time to weep and a time to
laugh. time to mourn, and a time to
dance. The first reading is just one
of the attitudes, and it's just one verse. It said, blessed are
those who mourn, for they shall be 4. Let not your heart be troubled.
You believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are
many mansions. If it were not so, I would have
told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and
receive you. to myself. That where I am, there you may
also be. And where I go, you know the
way you know. Hello. My name is Brandon Kraft. I was
her grandson. And I'm here today to honor her. I'm going to miss her. I'm going
to try to make it through this. I'm going to talk for a little
bit. But at the end, I want to give everybody here an opportunity
to reflect on her life and who she was. And at the end of this
message, give everyone an opportunity to reflect on your own lives
as well. And most of all, we're here to honor the one who has
given all of us life. My grandmother was a Christmas
present in 1923 on Christmas Day. Oh, that was almost 100
years ago. And she was born not too far
from where we are now. She was born over in the neighboring
county, Iron County. And she grew up in an old farmhouse
out there near Viburnum, Missouri. Her parents were Alex and Eva
Jennings. My middle name's Jennings, so
that's where I get that name. And she was always proud that
I was named, my middle name was Jennings. And they called her
Florence May, or most of her friends called her Flo May for
short. And she was their first and she was their only child. And she was born into a time
that's completely different from today. She's a product of a bygone
era. Life was harder then, but in
many ways it was simpler. And young folks out there, you
can only begin to imagine what it must have been like. Can you
imagine going without your internet or phone? I saw some of the young
folks here today with their little electronic devices. Well, she
didn't have any of those. People didn't hop in jet planes
and fly across the country. They didn't get in their cars
and drive across the state. In fact, most funerals were probably
held in a wooden shack somewhere. There was no electricity where
she grew up. No telephone. No running water. She had to
go fetch it out of a spring. And they didn't even have plumbing. I'm sure most of you all had
to use an outhouse, but can you imagine having to use one in
the sub-freezing weather? Yeah. Splinter-free toilet paper wasn't
even invented until the mid-1930s. So, I hear, I heard that my great-grandpa,
Alex Jennings, had a radio, and She wasn't allowed to use it
to listen to any entertainment shows because it ran off of batteries.
And she didn't want to use it, or he didn't want her using it
because he wanted to listen to the Farmer's Almanac or whatever.
So, Grandma grew up on a small, typical Ozark-style farm and
she lived a simple Ozark-style life. She grew up in the 1930s
in the middle of the Great Depression. This nation was in a deep economic
recession. And she lived a life that we
can only begin to imagine. I remember her telling me a story
once how she got on the wagon, a horse-covered wagon, with a
little springy seat that her dad would sit on, just like you
see in that old, chill little house in the prairie. And she'd
go visit her grandparents in the neighboring town of Goodwater.
If you go into Google Maps and you look for Goodwater, you'll
find it, but there's nothing there. It's a town that doesn't
even exist anymore. The only thing to remember people
that used to live in that town, a thriving town that had post
office churches, whatever, the only thing that's there anymore
is an old dingy cemetery. And so she comes from a bygone
era. And I want to talk for a few
minutes here about who my grandmother was. Because I loved her. I want to honor her here. But
for starters, she was a faithful daughter, and she was also a
faithful wife, twice. Her first husband, she married
her high school sweetheart, Larry Barr, Lawrence Barr, in the middle
of World War II. And shortly after their wedding,
she received news of his death by a hand-delivered letter. He
died in the Pacific Theater on a boat off the coast of Saipan.
And he didn't even get off the boat. And he's buried over there
in the Czar Tower. And shortly after his death,
she met and married my grandfather, Dewey Weaver. And Grandma loved
and cared for each of her husbands. And she took care of all of their
needs, even when they didn't deserve it. And that to me is true sacrificial
love. And I love my grandpa, but if
you only knew what grandma had to deal with. And you guys are
laughing because you know. But in spite of all the pain
that she endured, she faithfully cared for him until the very
end as well. And she was his companion in life and in his
death. And she honored her vows made
before God and the rest of the world. Grandma, of course, she
was also a mother. She was the mother to two daughters,
my mom Carol and my aunt Debbie. And having been a parent myself
now, getting to observe motherhood up close with my wife and son,
Angie, I can appreciate what it means to be a mother, somewhat. Okay, but mothers, they're life
givers. And grandma nurtured and she
cared for her children. And she did this faithfully,
not just in their formative years, but even as adults, as they became
wives and mothers as well. And yeah, my grandma was also
a grandma. She was my grandma. She was my sister's grandma.
She was a very important grandma to my cousins Brian and Alicia.
She'll always be our grandma. I'll always remember her and
cherish the memories. And I'd just like to share with
you a couple of them. I remember I was living here
as a little boy in West Plains, and she came here to pick me
up and take me down there with my sister to go visit Grandma
and Grandpa. And I remember getting there one day. First time I'd
seen her profile, Grandpa met me at the door. And Grandma and
Grandpa said, well, You're at our house now. You can watch
all the TV you want. Well, Grandma knew how to make
her grandkids feel real special. She bought me toys at Walmart,
gave me money, got me ice cream whenever I wanted it. And I spent
many weeks staying with them, with my cousins at Lake Norfolk
in their camper, going water skiing. And she always took care
of me. And of course, there was always
plenty, and I mean plenty, of biscuits and gravy. I went to college not too far
from here in the town of Rava. And even as a young adult, she'd
come stop by my house and visit with me, my little apartment.
And she'd tell me how proud she was of me. She'd always call
me Shug. And we'd talk about politics.
Dirty Bill Clinton. And we talk about Rush Limbaugh
with Grandpa. And I'd go visit them and stay
in their camper when they go to Eminence for a bluegrass festival.
And we had countless Thanksgivings at their house. And of course there was always
plenty of biscuits and gravy. Brian, I'm sure can relate to
that. And as a young adult, she even
helped me buy an engagement ring for my wife. She encouraged me. And she told me how much she
liked Angie, my soon-to-be wife. And she was always there for
her great-grandchildren. I took my son Cole to visit with
her many times. She got to see all her great-grandchildren.
And she always had ice cream for him. She had ice cream for
me, too, even as an older man. Yeah, you can't get much better
than that. You really can't. And she loved
her grandchildren and her great-grandchildren. And I think the last smile she
even had was when she got to see her great-grandson, Cole. But she was more than just a
loving person. She was a role model. She lived her life conservatively. She was frugal, almost to a fault. Some might even call her an old
miser. But I look at her life and I marvel at it. My grandma
and grandpa's frugality and simple living that allowed her to live
a long life without having to worry about money. So I would
encourage everyone here who knew her to pay attention to her life,
because that's how it's done. You know, she showed us the way.
One, you don't live beyond your means. Two, you be careful with
your spending. Three, you invest your money
wisely. And four, you save any economic
windfalls the Lord brings your way. And of course, there were the
little things she loved to read. She enjoyed TV game shows. She loved her word search patterns.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to see another Wheel of
Fortune episode without thinking of my grandma. And like many of you, I'm very
sad. And I miss her so much. And I miss my grandma. Her spiritual life, she was a
very private person. She was raised in a church going
home. The culture she was raised in believed and honored God. unlike today. Grandma did share with me on
many occasions her love for one passage of scripture, and she
even shared it with me recently before she passed, just within
the last year. So it was very important to her.
And I think it's only appropriate that I spend some time reading
it and talking about it today. And she could pick them. It's
a great passage to memorize, and to study and to love and
to recite. And in my opinion, it contains
the sum and substance of all the scriptures. So if you don't
know it, I would encourage you to learn it, to study it, and
to love it just like she did. I know it brought her comfort.
The passage is Psalm 23. If you have your Bibles with
you, you can turn there. If not, you can just listen as I read
it to you. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall
not want. He maketh me to lie down in green
pastures. He leadeth me beside the still
waters. He restoreth my soul. He leadeth
me in the path of righteousness for his namesake. Yea, though
I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear
no evil, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort
me. Thou preparest a table before
me in the presence of mine enemies. Thou anointest my head with oil.
My cup runneth over. Surely, goodness and mercy shall
follow me all the days of my life. And I will dwell in the
house of the Lord forever. I'm just going to speak for a
little bit about this, this passage, a parallel passage in the New
Testament. David, the king of Israel, penned
this. And he penned this as a sheep. He penned it as one of the Lord's
flock. And here he said, the Lord, he is my shepherd. The entire focus of this song
is on the one who is the shepherd and his sheep have confidence
in their shepherd's care. The shepherd is Lord God of Israel,
Jesus Christ. And Jesus, being incarnate God
amongst men, declared in John chapter 10, I am the good shepherd,
and I know my sheep, and I am known of them. And as a believer,
I can say it brings me such joy to know I am intimately connected
with the one who has created all things, who has purposed
all things. And the shepherd knows Me is
one of his sheep, and he has given me the great privilege
of calling him my shepherd. Who better to belong to? Who
better understands his sheep than the shepherd? And who is
better to shepherd them than the one who created them? But
I, being a sheep, like all sheep, I'm prone to wander. The prophet Isaiah said that
all of God's sheep have gone astray, and each one of them
has turned to his own way. And he also said that God has
laid upon himself, the shepherd, the iniquity of them all. God's sheep are not their own.
They have been purchased with the precious blood of Christ.
And like David says here in Psalm 23, we as sheep recognize his
ownership of us. And Luke 15.4, my shepherd Jesus
says, what man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one
of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness and
go after that which is lost until he find it? The shepherd looks
for and finds every one of his sheep. And he brings each one
into the fold. And he delights, he delights
in caring for his sheep. And as a believer in this gospel,
I believe that I've always been cared for by Christ, the good
shepherd, because I was chosen before the foundation of the
world to be one of his sheep. He knows my name. He's numbered
the hairs on my head. And he knows my weaknesses. He
knows my sins. He knows my every thought, for
he has predestinated them all from before the foundation of
the world. But I was always not aware of his knowledge of me.
His revelation to me has been a great comfort to me. And I
have learned to know, like David, of his character, his care, and
his tender mercies. I have learned that he views
me in Christ as having never sinned. And I stand before him
in a robe of righteousness and blameless before him. And I can
approach him in prayer without fear, after all, Why would a
sheep fear the shepherd? The Lord is my shepherd. I shall
not want as a sheep in my shepherd's fold. I don't have want for anything. Sure. I may want that new car
or more money. I may want to raise where I work
and I may experience hardship and anguish from time to time.
And Christ said in the book of Mark, but what shall profit a
man if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? But under the care of a shepherd's
watchful eye, I can boast in his care for me. And it doesn't
matter what circumstances I find myself in or what pain I've inflicted
upon myself through my stupidity. I know that he always has my
benefit in his mind. The welfare of the sheep is dependent
upon the management of the shepherd who owns them. It's not upon
the sheep. My good shepherd never ever,
ever ignores my needs. His eyes always on me. I don't
need to be staying. I don't need to stand at the
fence, gazing at my neighbor's pasture because I have the richest
pasture to be had. In other words, those who truly
understand the meaning of this psalm know that I shall not want
means that we are content. And we are content with our master,
our owner, our shepherd, and his management of us, the sheep.
I'm happy with all the things that I have around. These physical
things like my car, my house, or my paycheck. I shall not want
doesn't mean we will have everything. It simply means that God's sheep
are content. He maketh me to lie down in green
pastures. As one of God's people, one of
his sheep, I can lie down and I can rest. I'm not afraid. I
can lie down because I know my shepherd watches over me. I don't
have to be constantly on the lookout for wolves or constantly
scavenging for scarce food. The Lord's provided for all my
needs. As long as I'm in my shepherd's presence, I have no worries.
Sheep. I don't know if you know sheep,
but they're one of the most easily frightened animals there are. And as soon
as I start to get scared as a sheep, I start to run and I start to
hide from my fears. But if I'm with the shepherd,
I don't need to run and hide. He protects me. When things seem
like they're falling apart, I just have to remember that my savior,
the good shepherd, was also my friend. And I just have to remember
that he does have all things under control. And his spirit
bears witness to my heart and conveys a wonderful sense of
Christ to me. And in this assurance of Christ,
I can rest. I can lie down in green pastures.
I think that's a wonderful metaphor. In 2 Timothy 1, verse 7, the
Apostle Paul wrote, for God hath not given us a spirit of fear,
but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. A sound mind's
not one that's perturbed. It's not one that is obsessed
with the fear of death. It's a mind that's at peace.
So that's what it means to lay down in green pastures. And I
can go on and on and on about this song. Entire books have
been written about it. But the point is, God's people
are sheep. And Christ is a shepherd, and
the shepherd takes care of his sheep. And this is validated
in the book of John with Christ speaking to his disciples, curious
people, and the Pharisees. I'm going to read a few verses
here. It shouldn't take too long. But we're going to read Christ's
exact words about the sheep. John chapter 10. Verily, verily,
I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold
But climbeth up some other way, the same as a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the
door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth, and
the sheep hear his voice. And he calleth his own sheep
by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his
own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him, for
they know his voice. And a stranger will they not
follow, but will flee from him, for they know not the voice of
strangers. And this parable spake Jesus unto them, but they understood
not what things which he spake unto them. Then said Jesus unto
them again, verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the
sheep. All that ever came before me
are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door. By me, if any
man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out and find
pasture. The thief cometh not, but for
to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I am come that they
might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd giveth his
life for the sheep. But he that is an heirling, and
not the shepherd, whose own sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming,
and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth. And the wolf catcheth them, and
scattereth the sheep. The heirling fleeth, because
he is an heirling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good
shepherd, and I know my sheep, and I am known of mine. As the
father knoweth me, even so know I the father and lay down my
life for the sheep and other sheep I have which are not of
this fold them also I must bring and they shall hear my voice
and there shall be one fold and one shepherd therefore doth my
father love me because I lay down my life that I might take
it again no man take it from me but I lay it down of myself
I have the power to lay it down And I have the power to take
it again, this commandment that I have received of my father."
And there was a division, therefore, among the Jews for these sayings.
And many of them said, he hath a devil, and he is mad. Why hear ye him? And others said,
these are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil
open the eyes of the blind? And it was at Jerusalem, the
Feast of Dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the
temple on Solomon's porch, And came the Jews round about him,
and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou
be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, and said,
I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my
Father's name. They bear witness of me. But
ye believed not, because ye are not of my sheep. As I said unto
you, my sheep hear my voice. And I know them, and they follow
me. And I give unto them eternal
life, and they shall never perish. Neither shall any man pluck them
out of my hand. My father, which gave them to
me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them
out of my father's hand. I and my father are one." And
then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. The Lord,
my good shepherd, he laid down his life for his sheep. He laid
down his life for this sheep. And he went to the cross willingly.
And God the Father laid upon him all the sins of the sheep,
of his sheep. And in time, his sheep will hear
the shepherd's voice calling for them in gospel preaching.
And all of the sheep will follow him. And not one of them will
be lost. And if you're one of God's sheep,
you too can sing this song that my grandma loved about the great
shepherd. We're all headed for the grave. It won't be long before
I die. It won't be long before all of
you die too. And within a hundred years, unless
the Lord returns, this land will be filled with a whole new generation
of people that won't have any memory of us or your children
or your children's children. It won't be long and my grandmother's
name will be a distant memory. Maybe remembered in some record
book somewhere or somewhere on the internet. And this is true
for all of us as well. All of your stuff will be gone.
Your house will be gone. Your cars will have been rusted
or recycled. Your pets will be gone. and even
your beloved sons, daughters, husbands, and wives, they'll
all be dead. And after they bury your body
in the ground, you'll be forgotten by the world just sitting there
in the grave. And if this world continues for
another thousand years, even your tombstone will more than
likely wither away like dust in the wind. But even with this terrible fact
of impending death, God's sheep don't have to worry about the
grave. They lie down in green pastures. And every one of them
will wake up in heaven face to face with their shepherd who
has loved and cared for them all of their lives. How does
one know if they are a sheep? Well, all of God's sheep, all
of God's elect and chosen people, they will believe the gospel
of Christ. And this believing, it doesn't turn them into a sheep.
It simply evidences them to be a sheep. Their faith is given
from above because they are sheep. And this gift is one of grace
and not of works lest anyone should boast. Some people, they
read the Bible and they only see the law and living morally
in the scriptures and reading the Bible 300 times won't turn
you into a sheep. Praying a prayer won't make you
a sheep. A sheep is just a sheep. And
a sheep doesn't even look for the shepherd. The shepherd looks
for the sheep. And the great shepherd comes
and finds all of his sheep. And he brings them into the fold
and they follow him. Matthew 121 says, thou shalt
call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins. And if you're one of God's sheep
and if you don't already know the shepherd, he will come and
find you and call you by name and you will follow him. You
don't get a choice in the matter. And then you as a sheep that
has been found will then know the meaning of this song that
grandma loved to recite. The point of this message is
that there is hope. There is hope in Christ Jesus,
the God man who walked on this earth over 2000 years ago lived
a perfect life and fulfillment of all righteousness on behalf
of his sheep. And he willingly went to the
cross and suffered the wrath of the father for the sins of
his people, his sheep. And when he gave up the ghost
and was resurrected from the dead, he saved his sheep. There is hope. If you despair
of your sin, if you want to be free from the fear of the death,
The fear of death, then, live every day as though it were your
last. We should all be in the habit of dying to this world. In fact, each of us should die
daily to it. And hold everything here with
a loose hand. And we should live in this world
in the awareness that everything here is perishing. Don't live
for the perishing things of time, but live for the lasting things
of eternity. live as a traveler in a strange
land. And don't get too fond of it
here, because soon you'll have to let it go, in a moment's notice
even. And if you are fearful of your
future, then look to Christ. Look for the shepherd that is
gathering in all of his sheep. Amen. Shepherd me, O God, beyond my
wrongs, beyond my fears, from death into life. Water my shepherds
on which I run, and in that I run. ? I'm walking my way to lose my
ways ? ? She speaks beyond my words, beyond my thoughts ? ?
Beyond my thoughts, beyond my thoughts, beyond my thoughts
? ? Beyond my thoughts, beyond my thoughts, beyond my thoughts
? You are my father, you are at
my side. You are my interest, my world,
and my life. ? It shall be as I hear it once
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it again as I hear it again as I hear it again as I hear it
again as I hear it again as I hear it again as I hear it again as I I know you're gone, my heart
is falling apart. ? He's the truth ? ? He rules the
ages ? ? He'll rescue your battles ? ? From the wounds of the world
? ? You too can wish upon a star
? ? The farther I'll go ? Oh, how I love to think of you
Every hour of your day to me I can see ? So you'll rise high on the mountain
? ? Now you're home, now you're home ? ? You too have been chosen ? ?
Of the human kind ? ? Of four kinds of brains ? Thank you, Carrie. She plays
that piano and sings beautifully, and I know Mom would be so proud,
so. Okay. I want to thank all of you. for being here today. It means so much to all our family. Brandon, you made us laugh, and
that's what we all want right now, because the memories are
the most important thing right now. We know that all of you care,
especially members of Mom, her great-grandbabies, great children,
her mother, her friends, Aunt Molly, years and years, you know,
I have memories. Keith, a lot of times. Rose and
Haley. We had a lot of fun on those
cruises and, well, Pinochle and, oh my gosh, so many fun times. Mom's always about the food.
You know, we would play pinochle on Friday and Saturday, and I'd
get Rosemary a plate to take home, and she'd be like, well,
is there enough for us tomorrow? I'm like, Mom, OK, whatever. She was conservative. You were
right, Brandon. But I know every one of you.
Doris, a lot of great members. Baby, you know. So I thank you from all of our
family for your friendship, your dedication, your laughter, and
how much you loved our mother. Sharon said to me last weekend,
she was getting bad. She said, he said, honey, you
know she's sick. and you really didn't expect
her to live forever, did you? And I'm like, yeah, I think I
did. I wanted her to. We all want
our loved ones to live forever. But it's not to be. Grief never ends. It changes. It's a passage, and
it's not a place to stay. Grief is not a sign of weakness.
Tears are not a sign of weakness. Right, Kylie? We can cry. Right, baby? It's not a lack
of faith either. It's the price of love. Because
when we cry, that means we have loved dearly. I wrote a poem that I'd like
to share with you. I used to write a lot of stuff
to mom and put it in her cards. Mom, we knew you were getting
tired. It was so hard to see. God put
his arms around you and he whispered, come to me. With tearful eyes, we watched
you fade away. Although we loved you dearly,
we just couldn't make you stay. It's lonely here without you.
It's not the same since you went away. Days are sad and lonely. who we miss you every day. Sorry. Each time I see your picture,
you seem to smile and say, I mean, I literally see her smiling.
She said, don't cry. I'm in God's hands. And we will
meet again someday. So I want to turn it over to Brandon
for a final prayer. And once again, from all of our
family, we love you all. And we thank you for the support.
Deb and Bill, thank you for driving all the way from Dallas to support
us today. Our family from St. Louis and friends, we love you all. We love you guys, so thank you. Again, from all of us, our whole
family. All right, let's let's bow our
heads and pray. Heavenly Father, Lord, you are
so good and so kind to your people. And you've been You're marvelous. You created
this day. You gave us this world to live in. And we are so thankful
for the life of Grandma that you've given us. I'm so thankful
that I got to know her for my 45 years as one of her grandkids. And I'm thankful, Lord, for all
those earthly affections that I have. Father, I'd ask that you'd comfort
your people today, that you'd give them comfort and help them
to rest in you and rest in the knowledge of Christ as we bury
her. And Father, you are the Lord's
sovereign. You've made everything. You've
caused all these things to happen. Sometimes we don't understand
why they do happen, but they do. And your word says that you
cause all things to happen together. For the good of those who love
you, Romans 8, 28. So while this death, it's a hard
thing for us to deal with as it is with anybody that we love.
We know ultimately though that it's for the good of those that
do love you and rest in you. And may you be glorified and
honored in today's services. And father, I just, I just praise
your name, your great and sovereign Lord. And we love you. I ask
that you'd be with us as we make our way to the cemetery, that
you protect us, keep us safe from any harm on the road and
father that you would cause if it be your will for the sun to
shine on us. And we would, uh, honor you in all that we do.
May you be glorified in Christ's name only. Amen. I know. Thank you. She loved you. Yeah, I'll be okay. I want to talk to you. He's fine. Let me speak to you guys You know, Henry Mahan preached
his own son's funeral. I don't know how he did that.
Nice to meet you. See you on the river, okay? Okay. What's your name? Jacob? Okay. Nice to meet you, Jacob.
About Brandan Kraft
Brandan Kraft grew up in the Missouri Ozarks town of Potosi and has worked in Information Technology since 1998. He began publishing Christian writing online in 1997 with the website bornagain.net, which later developed into PristineGrace.org.
Through Pristine Grace, Brandan writes and teaches from a sovereign grace perspective, emphasizing Christ’s finished work, the sufficiency of the Gospel, and the rest that flows from God’s gracious initiative rather than religious striving. His teaching is Scripture-centered, pastoral in tone, and shaped by real life rather than controversy or debate.
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