It just doesn't work. You can
kick it over. All right, here we go. We're
going to start the question and answer panel here. My name is
Steven. I'll be the guy that you'll be
pointing at and waving at to get the microphone to ask any
questions. You guys don't know me already. give Brother Tim here a little
break so he can be a part of the panel. Just because he works
the mic and he's up here introducing a lot of stuff doesn't mean he
isn't wise himself. I've had many conversations with
him over the last year or so and I've been blessed by A lot
of his knowledge and he's been over my house a few times and
he's actually been able to exercise those evangelism skills of his
with family members of mine and others. So it's been a blessing
just to see him and actually go out with him to Jehovah Witness
Conferences and out to the parks and out to the festivals around
here and just being able to really see what the biblical model is
of a biblical evangelist. So we're going to start this
question and answer panel. And since, so we'll go ahead
and lay out a few rules here. So anybody that wants to ask
a question, we'll go ahead and bring you the mic. so the camera
can get and hear the question that's being asked. So I'll bring
the mic to you, ask your question, and then we'll go from there.
And since I have the mic first, I'll ask the first question.
My first question is for any of you here. One area that was
just brought up by Brother Delcor in regards to passages like Romans
10, 8, and 9, Revelation 3, 20, and the inaccurate exegetical
context that has been taken from those things and the methodology
that has arisen from those in regards to decisional regeneration. Talk about, answer, basically
just how that came about. how a lot of those scriptures
particularly were first taken out of context and used towards
this methodology that we see here today and how we are to
address it now in context in regards to those that believe
that is the biblical model for evangelism. Go ahead. I thought you were directing
that to Ed, correct? Yeah, decisional regeneration,
as it's known, and for those who are not familiar with that
term, what that term means is in modern day altar calls, as
we call them, when the preacher preaches, and then he asked the
question, Now, I know this from experience because in the late
80s and early 90s I was in the largest altar call ministry there
was. We used to see over 300,000 people
come forward in altar calls. It was the athletic ministry.
And so how it goes is the preacher will give his preaching and then
at the end he'll have everyone bow their heads and then he'll
do different things. Sometimes he'll do this. You
know, the heart's beating, you know, they have all different
kinds of methodologies they use. But the point is he wants to
know who wants to accept Christ, you know, who wants Jesus, who
don't you know, because your heart can stop at any moment,
you know. So there's a there's an implication
of fear there and all these things. And he'll ask who wants to accept
Christ. And then on a show or a number
of normally they count to three, one, two, three. This is how
most normally do it. The ones that want Christ will
lift up their hand and then he'll say, OK, every eye closed, every
head bowed, and they'll go into a prayer. And then afterwards,
the preacher will lead everyone into a prayer and he'll tell
even the saved people to say it for the sake of the ones that
just want Christ, you know, for the first time. They're not saved
yet. And tell the sinners prayer.
And a sinner's prayer is the preacher leading them into a
prayer in which they accept Christ. And it goes something like this.
Dear Lord Jesus, forgive me. I'm a sinner. I repent for everything
I did. Now, please come into my heart
and I want to make you Lord and I want to be saved. Please come
into my heart. Amen. And then the crowd claps
and then he counts to three again. And at that three, everyone who
made a decision will come forward. And at that point, they'll put
the music on simultaneously. And all these people come forward.
And everyone claps and everyone stands up and everyone's in tears.
And they all come to the altar. That's why it's called an altar
call. And then they'll go in little rooms and we'll get the
numbers and so on and so forth. So what's wrong with altar calls? I mean, people are in tears.
And people are raising their hand to accept Christ. So what
is wrong? And this is the question we're
dealing with. What is wrong with an altar call? And I have a few
problems, but I want someone else to answer this as well.
Then I'll piggyback on that. I have a few words on that. Dealing with altar calls and
decisional regeneration, what a lot of people forget is that
Jesus commands all men to repent everywhere. This offer so-called
oftentimes is miscued because we're commanded to repent and
believe because we're dead in trespasses and sins, as it says
in Ephesians 2.1. We're enabled spiritually to
be able to accept that. In fact, because of Adam and
Eve being our first parents and we're at enmity with God, him
being our federal head, We're dead in trespasses and sin. We're
incapable. We're spiritually dead. Now,
if Ephesians two one said we're spiritually sick, then maybe
we could take this antidote so-called. But because we're spiritually
dead, there has to be a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit changing
our hearts. You know, there's a debate on
exactly when that happens. It goes on for centuries. You
know, it's simultaneously faith goes by hearing, hearing by the
word. Are you regenerated before faith? Are you born again before
you believe? And obviously you've got to be like Lazarus. Lazarus, come forth. You've got
to be called out of the dead. You've got to be made alive.
And this is one of the big things people misunderstand, that the
new birth is a miracle of God. It happens miraculously by God,
not by a human decision. You know, the NIV even says in
John 1, 13, it's not a human decision. That's right. Because most evangelists, most
evangelists quote John one twelve that he's given us the power
to become the sons of God and so forth. And they always forget
John one thirteen, which says it's not a flesh, it's not a
blood, it's not of human descent, but of God. That was a loose
paraphrase, but it's totally of God. And it's really frustrating
because it was Charles Finney in the 19th century who really
put the altar calls on the map. It's been told that there's people
that did that before but really for a first 1800 years of the
church There was no altar calls people pointed people to Christ.
They called people to repentance Because we are called to make
disciples and go out and preach we cannot make converts like
even it was deal mood or Spurgeon said he was walking down the
street and here comes this drunk guy. Hey, I'm one of your conversions
and They go, you sure are, because you're not one of God's. And
I forgot which one of the men that said that. But these are
just great points. I want to say one other thing
before I pass the mic. Pastor Joe, my former pastor,
when we were at San Quentin ministering there, he gave a great testimony
on how when he was a Marine, he was very zealous and he was
a Jewish man who got converted. He was a zealot. He said in one
year he had like 300, I think it was, decisions, got people
to pray this prayer, gave a Bible study. At the end of that year,
there were six people in that Bible study and six people in
church after 300 decisions. And that is a great testimony
in statistical understanding that here is a guy, got all these
guys to make that decision, had all these guys so-called coming
to faith. And all those Marines were still
there, but there at the end of the year, there was six in Sunday
school and six in the Bible study. I mean, that tells a great deal. There's a lot more I could go
on and say about that because I get frustrated on the decisionalism.
That's why the church today is loaded with unconverted people
because of this decisional regeneration. God's got a wonderful plan for
you. Come up here, repeat this prayer after me or sign this
card. or whatever, and I want to say this. People do this out
of sincerity because that's what they're used to hearing. That's
the model in Christendom today. But in actuality, there's some
people who get saved during an altar call. Here's a good statistic. Two thousand people go to a Billy
Graham crusade, right? They hear enough gospel truth
because faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word. They're
saved by that word that convicted them, those who did get saved.
But it was despite of the method. And it was because of the power
of God, not these methodologies that are unbiblical. And we got
to understand that. But there's a statistic in the
Billy Graham Association, if I recall, two thousand people
come forward. This is a rough number I'm given
approximately two percent in a year. You look down the road
to check up on two percent of these people who are, quote unquote,
made decisions are in church. or in a Bible study. So there's
a lot of these things that. And it's hard because when you
say this against the to the regular churchgoers who's heard all that
they've been conditioned by this this way of thinking and evangelism
for years. It's hard and they don't like
you very much. For those of you here this morning,
when I was talking about evangelism from the context of the three
years that I was an evangelist in many different states, the
the continual repetition of salvation over and over and over again,
especially with young people in their 20s and Late teens,
I began to see the same faces on the college campuses coming
down the aisle, coming here. Well, this time I'm really saved
because I really meant it. Here's the here's the crux of
it. The non-academic crutches, the theological and I believe
worshipful ideal that the scripture teaches us and the apostles.
Well, Jesus and John six, he even says that the father gives
to me and all the father gives to me come to me. And when you
see Paul in Ephesians saying that it is by grace alone through
faith, not of works that no one can boast, we see Paul saying
that there is no boast except the cross of God. So if I have
made the right choice, then I have a boast before the Lord just
in an argumentative way. How do you know? Here's what
we used to do. How do you know that you know that, you know,
do you know that you know that you're going to heaven? The answer
is always because I prayed to receive Christ, then that is
a boast before the Lord. Because I believed the right
stuff, then that's a boast before the Lord, because God saved me
is the right answer. And so how that plays out academically,
grammatically. And I think Stephen's primary
question is because what happens is people will use Romans 10,
verses eight and nine as the proof text to prove the scripture
says, if you confess, And you believe you will be saved as
a condition. So it's sort of like a pretext
or precursor of salvation or regeneration. And so I think
that's is that more about what you're trying to ask? How do
we defend apologetically and exegetically? How do we defend
against that position in the cultural understanding of Rome
here and dealing with that text? Because I hear it all the time.
So I'll let somebody else talk. Really briefly, yeah, I get that
question a lot from college students. I'm a college pastor, and so
we approach it a couple different ways. One is to bring up the
verses, and my brothers here brought up many of the important
ones, John 1, John 6, and so forth. John 15, Jesus says, you
did not choose me, but I chose you, and so forth. We also do
approach it with the idea of boasting, how salvation is entirely
a work of grace and not a human work, but if we walk the aisle,
if we pray a prayer, we can focus on that as our human work, and
that doesn't seem to be the formula of salvation in Scripture. We
also approach it from an idea of how Calvinists in history
have seen it. A guy named Thomas Bradwardine,
who was Archbishop of Canterbury, said that Satan just wanted to
be equal with God. He just wanted to raise his throne.
Decisionism actually wants to make themselves greater than
God. Their will goes, Bradwardine says, and thy will, God's will,
follows behind. And so that becomes distinction
in scripture, that the creator is always greater than the creature.
And somehow this decisionism reverses that. And with regard
to these texts, such as Romans 10 and Revelation 3, and in general,
all the, if you do this, such and such will happen. There was
a historic debate between Mark and Luther Rasmus over issues
like this. And Luther famously said, you
know, every time you see a condition or an imperative, that doesn't
mean you can do it. And recently authors have a guy
named Vincent Chung says, yeah, it's like, if someone said to
you, if you were a fish, you could breathe underwater, which
is true. doesn't mean you could do it. And so we see throughout
scripture, for instance, in Romans three, that the law, all the
commands in scripture, like be perfect as your heavenly father
is perfect. Those laws are there primarily. This is Romans three
20 to break us, to make us realize that we are sinners and not perfect.
And therefore we need a Messiah. Yeah, I think that The solution
is proclaiming the total depravity of man. He stands because he's
a dead sinner in rebellion towards God. By nature, he hates God. And if we look at man as a victim,
because we've been so humanized, we've been so indoctrinated in
our 70 and 80 years by John Dewey through our public school systems
that we're starting to see it behind the pulpit as just a byproduct
of what we've been trained in. And here we are just proclaiming,
oh, it seems right. Well, of course, man is a victim.
Don't you feel you don't want him to go to hell? Poor guy. Unless God moves upon you, unless
God does, you remain in your sin. You remain dead in your
sin. And therefore, you deserve the wrath and the anger of God. And before we end this, I think
it's important also to deal with the text. of those particular
texts. And again, when we say decisional
regeneration, just to define the term, what we mean is that
it's the idea that your decision regenerates you and then God
responds to your decision. And then when the people come
forward, the people cry and clap at the person coming forward.
They're they're applauding their faith as if the actual faith
was the very cause of their salvation. And there's no difference between
decisional regeneration and baptismal regeneration. There's no difference.
You're asserting a work. But dealing with the text, Romans
10, first dealing with Romans 10, 9, if you confess with your
mouth and believe in your heart. Well, in the English, of course,
it doesn't do justice sometimes to the Greek. The term homo legeo
can mean to do some kind of audible confession. It can. But the import
of the meaning there, literally just the same speak. It's an
inward assenting. So that means people that don't
have the ability to speak like a mute person. Praise God, they
can be saved, too. Now, if I take it the other way,
they can't be saved. Remember the movie, Tommy? How
can he be saved? Well, he couldn't speak. So they
sing that Armenian song. How can he be saved from the
eternal grave? So homily has the the connotative
meaning to ascent inwardly. And when we believe we ascent
inwardly, it doesn't necessitate an audible some kind of audible
formula and also the Revelation three. Well, real simple. Who is the Revelation three? Who is Jesus speaking to the
church? He stands at our heart all the
time he knocks. He wants more of us. In Matthew
7, he says, seek. He's talking to Christians. Keep seeking. Keep asking. That's all to Christians, not
to non-believers. There's no passage directed to
non-believers in that fashion. So I think it's important to
deal with those particular texts as well. This was directed towards Jeff,
but it could be for any of you guys, because Jeff, I watched
his DVD regarding, spoke a lot about his life, but I'd like
you to maybe speak a little bit more about how you believe that
someone who's going to proclaim the gospel in the open air should
have their local church being very much supportive of that
or at least aware of it. And my situation is more that
they're aware of what I do and they haven't said anything bad
about me. That's basic but they don't want me to be there. They're talking in terms of well
we don't really we're not really behind you but we'll tell you
because it's a Presbyterian church and if I do anything wrong then
we'll discipline you. But I have that's that's basically
where I stand. So it's sort of a backhanded
agreement that they're OK with it and they'll tell me if I if
I step out of line. But can you elaborate a little
bit more about what about that, Jeff. Hope that makes sense.
Well, when we read the epistles and obviously this is all new
to me as well, because it's only been a year since we have brought
the ministry under the local church. But I see it in the scriptures.
I see it in Hebrews. You know, I see it throughout
the whole word of God from the beginning to the end, which with
biblical authority and coming under authority is so important. But my pastor, John Ruther, had
said, if you know, if your pastors don't get behind the evangelists
and they, you know, break the commandments of God. They've
removed themselves from being an authority because God commands
you to go. If they tell you not to go, then
you find another church that will get behind you and support
the call of God upon your life. And, you know, not every church
is going to be up in arms about what you do. And a lot of that
is because what we see today out there, a lot of the, you
know what I'm talking about, a lot of the stuff that goes
on out there, they don't want to be labeled with all of that. They don't
want one of those nut jobs in their church, running around
doing that crazy stuff and then be, you know, tagged along with
it. But when they understand Biblically
speaking, what biblical reformational public proclamation looks like
throughout the Bible and throughout church history. And they need
that, especially if they're a Presbyterian church. They're rooted in public
proclamation. They should understand these
things. And it's probably a good idea to sit down with your pastors
and your elders and go over these things with them so they can
see public proclamation in the light of Scripture and in the
light of church history. And if they're not willing to
get behind you and support that call on your life, you may just
have to find a church that does. Brother, thank you for being
engaged in public preaching and evangelism. I think it's wonderful.
And I think it's lacking in a lot of Presbyterian churches kind
of historically. But I think in terms of ecclesiology, I'm
familiar, well, I'm actually ordained in a Presbyterian church,
so I kind of know a little bit about it. But it seems like oftentimes
the concern is discipline and authority that even when Paul
and Barnabas had a dispute about circumcision and so forth, they
went up to Jerusalem and to the council with other mature believers
to sort of decide this issue. So just in case something comes
up that people don't agree upon in your preaching or something
like that, maybe that's one thing they're looking at. Another thing
might be the sacraments or baptism and communion that oftentimes
people think that If someone's preaching a gospel, they should
also be in a position to baptize people who want to be baptized.
And sometimes churches think that that must be done in a church
structure. So that's another concern that
I've heard over the years. So just maybe so you know what
they're thinking. But again, thank you for doing what you
do. And may God bear much fruit through you. Anyone can answer this, but what
role should eschatology play in our evangelism? More specifically,
should we try to use the impending, which is kind of popular, try
to use the impending second coming of Christ and the rapture, especially
in regards to the predispensational view to urge the unbelieving
to repent and believe? I personally I personally don't. I mean you know you got sometimes
you take each witnessing opportunity on its own merit. I try to focus
particularly when it's just your normal non-believer really on
gospel elements because if which I don't see eschatology as part
of gospel because the one problem is you can convince someone of
a particular eschatological view and it doesn't mean they're going
to get saved. It just may mean they agree with your eschatological
view. They might agree that Jesus is coming back without really
knowing him. You've got 12 million Mormons
that believe in a Hal Lindsey type of eschatology, but it doesn't
mean that they're saved. So personally, I really avoid
eschatology and, you know, even with a lot of Christians because
Many Christians do not really study that out. They study one
view, and that's where it stops. That's it. And they get upset
if you don't agree with their view. So me personally, I really
don't include it in my gospel presentation. Me personally. So boy, that could be a can of
worms. There's so many interesting views on the last things. And I was reading this morning,
actually, that an overemphasis on premillennialism and dispensationalism
can lead to a view like Christian Zionism. And an overemphasis
on post-millennialism can lead to a view like America is God's
country and let's take it back for God and go hang the Ten Commandments
in the White House and so forth. So it can affect, I mean ideas
do have consequences. I think that I always try to
invite the person, hey let's study this and take a look at
it because there are so many different views and so many different
verses that come into play. Rather than telling them what
I think, the one point I would emphasize is that Jesus is coming
again. and that the end is going to come. Exactly what order that's
going to come in and what happens first and that kind of thing
is sort of, let's study it, is what I tell the student. Let
me say something on that. The one thing about end times
is that people need to be ready today. Proverbs 27.1, I quote
a lot out street preaching that Proverbs 27.1 says, don't boast
about tomorrow. You don't know what a day may
bring forth. And I believe James alludes to that And his epistle
saying, you know, don't just say we're going to go do this
and that and the other thing, but if the Lord wills, we shall go
and do this, that or the other thing. And so when people, and
that's very popular today with the decisional regeneration our
day is pre-millennial dispensationalists. There's a lot of dear brethren
who hold that position. You know, I particularly do not.
But the one thing that we got to realize is that That's really
not even in the equation, because you aren't even guaranteed your
next breath. You need to be right today to
bring those fear tactics. It does not save anybody. Faith
comes by hearing God's Word, straight up. Hearing God's Word. Of course, for the members of
FIRST, you know sort of where I stand on a lot of areas. I
did about a year and a half in teaching Revelation. And what
I did with that is I said, let's take a right reading of Revelation,
a right reading, not necessarily a teaching of millennial views,
although I did propose them in like one class out of many, many
weeks, 60 weeks. But read Revelation for what
it's worth. What is the essence of John's apocalypse? of what
is being revealed. And I'll tell you, when you really
go to this letter, and growing up in the Bible Belt, let me
tell you, brother, I know what you're talking about. I've seen pastors
come to the altar and get saved because of the fear of the beast
coming and eating their kids and all sorts of stuff. You know,
like the one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people leader,
whatever that thing. You know, so all of this horrific last
days, apocalyptic zombie mode type mindset, Halo 3 thing. I
mean, you know, you better hurry and repent or you're going to
burn. I mean, that might be a true statement, but the fear of hell
is not a love for Christ. And a fear of hell should be
used for what it was used for in the text, which is to display
the judgment of God against the unholiness of man. And so that
his righteousness is displayed. And you want to see judgment.
Look at the Calvary. That ought to scare you worse
than anything, even as a believer, because that was done on the
behalf on your behalf so that God could forgive you and still
be God. And so in closing, my thoughts are with Revelation
and Revelation, chapter five. Verse five. And one of the elders
said to me, weep no more. See, John was weeping for there
was no one there to take the order from God, no one there
in this metaphorical picture, if you will, in this illustrative
thing to to to give the get the command of God to redeem people. And what did it say? And one
of the elders said to me, weep no more. Behold, the lion of
the tribe of Judah, the root of David, very Semitic, has conquered
so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals. And what
does it do? We sing a new song. Worthy are
you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were
slain and by your blood you ransomed people for God. For every tribe
and language and people and nation, you have made them a kingdom
and priests to our God and they shall reign on the earth. That's
the message of Revelation. That's the message of eschatology
is that we will all one day be together for the glory of Christ
alone. And so when we use in times,
it needs to be for worship, not fear mongering. So anyway. I mean, I think at some level
it could determine the way we preach. Because if we have some
sort of hiding place, we think we're going to get raptured,
raptured out of here to trouble-free gospel. You know, looking at
the Word of God and what we proclaim when we go out, asking ourselves,
is Christ king now? Has he been inaugurated after
his resurrection? Is he king now or is he going
to be king later? So if he's not king now, how
are you living your life today? And if your gospel proclamations
and declaring Christ as being king now, is he some future king? you know, that comes later, like
a dispensational view, because that'll affect the gospel proclamation. Because if you live in defeatism,
that we're supposed to be picked on until we get raptured out
of this bad world into safety, we're supposed to live this non-confrontational,
get out of jail free card, you know, we're just saved from hell.
You know, that's not the gospel. The gospel reaches beyond that.
Salvation is the beginning of the gospel. It's not the end
all of the gospel. It's where it all begins. And
it does play a part in our eschatology and how we see Christ as King
and how we proclaim the Word of God and how we see the final
fulfillment of the last days. I have a question about some
of the things, questions that other people pose to you. I get
a lot of this, what do they call it, straw splitting type questions
about baptism and that sort of thing. And they really lead to,
not doctoral, but more denominational practices. And how do you deal
with that? You know, I don't believe in
baptism unless you're totally immersed. And then another one
would say, well, you're baptized once, you're always baptized,
or you need to be re-baptized into our... You know, yeah, it's
difficult sometimes because when you dialogue with Christians,
we're talking in-house discussion. Christians have a tendency to
sometimes they make up their mind and nothing you say is going
to change and comes from from an exegetical position. But you
know on those peripherals we just have to understand that
their peripherals. I had a good one of my best friends was just
extraordinarily charismatic and he liked Hagen even though he
didn't believe in everything. You know he loved the Armenian
doctrine. You know he's charismatic and
even though You know, we violently differed. He was one of my closest
friends, you know, discuss and, you know, argue that we're going
to go eat spaghetti afterwards. You know, so I keep peripherals
as peripherals. You know, you can discuss it,
but I wouldn't spend too much time and energy on it. It just
gets exhausting. Obviously, we're here at First
Baptist Church, so we believe in immersion, full immersion
for believers. I just mentioned this and these
things are secondary issues. I think there's some important
points on some of them. And here's what's interesting,
like R.C. Sproul, one of my favorite teachers,
and obviously he's a Presbyterian and believes in that side of
the covenantal message and very smart individual. In fact, many
of the Presbyterian minds are some of the greatest minds in
Christianity, you know, and I would differ with them on, you know,
Warfield, all these guys. great theologians, Hodge and
these guys, and you have different things, but Knowing if you're
a mature Christian, the secondary issue that salvation is by grace
through faith, and that it's not of any works. You know, by
being baptized is not the Church of Christ, the Cavalite doctrine
of regeneration, that you have to be baptized to be saved. It's
not a secondary issue. And like in the Church of Rome,
they baptize infants for the reason to remove original sin.
It's not the case in the Presbyterian baptizing babies. And then there's
differences in the Lutherans baptizing babies. And maybe some
of these guys could get into that a little deeper. But I think
we need to understand this one statement that all of us has
probably said, if it wasn't for the grace of God, there go I.
It's purely of grace, whether you believe in that Presbyterian
view of covenant or the Baptist full immersion, which most non-denominational
churches would be, you know, full immersion believers, baptism. But understand the grace of God
is what saves us. And as we were talking earlier
in Ephesians two, eight, nine, four, by grace, you are saved
through faith and that not of yourself. It's a gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast. And one quick thing is. I remember on that video that
Eric Holmberg did, it's a really great video called Amazing Grace,
the History and Theology of Calvinism. The one pastor, I forgot his
name, he says, if your neighbor chooses Christ and you don't,
then he has something to boast about if he has a free will to
do that and you don't. And that would be contrary to
the scriptures, because we have nothing to bust about. That's
where a lot of people even get the misunderstanding of grace,
that we're saved by grace through faith. I know I kind of sidetracked
this a little bit, but I thought it was important under this banner
right here. Any of you guys have any more
to say on that? So with regard to splitting straws,
I think it's good to recognize whether someone wants to split
straws, just to split straws, or they're really curious about
something. And if they really are, then that's a great invitation
to invite them to study with you, study scripture. Let's take
a look at it. And I agree this baptism thing. I mean, there
are guys like John Piper, you know, he's a Baptist. He works
alongside Ligon Duncan, who's a Presbyterian, and they're in
groups like Together for the Gospel and Gospel Coalition and
so forth. So definitely can work together. Charles Spurgeon, a
Baptist, right? John Calvin, a Presbyterian, have contributed
much to our understanding of theology and so forth. So yeah,
just invite people to work with you. But trying to figure out,
they're just trying to distract and split hairs just for that
sake and deal with it accordingly, I guess. There's a saying, if
I can remember it right, controversy for the sake of controversy is
sin, but controversy for the sake of truth is a divine command.
And I forgot, was that Walter Martin? And there's a lot in
that because A lot of people can be very controversial going
back, you know, with the straw splitting. Oh, man, it's got
to be like this. That's why, like even James was telling us,
you know, a church split back where he lived over what color
the doors were going to be. So you got the green Baptist
church on this side of the street and the red door about this.
That's a true story, James. I mean, that's how silly things
can get. So. This is for anybody, but I got
like three questions. Um, if possibly you can, uh,
give more of a definition on humanism and how that works out.
And, um, has any of you seen a conversion right there on the
spot? And if there was, did you, you
know, follow up with some kind of discipling or lead, you know,
um, and then the last one is, uh, uh, when you go, yeah, that's
two. This is my last one. Of course,
there's one within this one, so maybe that's four. But anyways,
when you go out, do you have a plan what to say? And is there
a process of growing and failure in street preaching? What was the last question? When you go out to preach, Do you have a plan of what to
say outside the leading of the Holy Spirit? But you know, when
you go out cold turkey, because for me it's more personal, but
when you go out to street preach, it's a purpose. Do you have a
plan of what to say? And then is there a growing in
failure in street preaching as you start forth to go do it? OK, I'll take the last one then
about the about the street preaching. When I first started going out,
I generally would have some idea what I was going to say because
I wanted to be biblically sound in dealing with with human nature
and obviously total depravity, dealing with man is dead in sin,
realizing that God is sovereign. I'm going out there preaching
the character of God. the holiness of God, the law
of God, bringing the knowledge, obviously, of sin. Jupyritans
were known for me throughout Scripture. I mean, we see people
preaching the law of God, and that's very, very important.
So I had law and grace down as just key principles that would
always be there. But when I stood up to proclaim,
or now when I go out and I preach in the open air, God just lays
something on my heart and I begin to proclaim. But I usually always
begin with the character of God and the holiness of God and the
law of God. And I lay heavy on those things. And then I point him to Christ,
and then I exalt Christ as who he is. Not just as some little
fancy car salesman out there trying to get a decision, or
trying to somehow manipulate man into doing something to make
myself feel good about myself. But realizing, you know, as Dr. DelCore had said earlier, that
we're out there to glorify God. And I think to myself, what is
the greatest way that I can bring glory to God in my proclamation? And the greatest way that I see
in scriptures to glorify God is to proclaim his son as God
and proclaiming him in the open air and exalting him. in declaring
who he is as he's defined in scripture, not how we want to
make him out to make him more palatable. you know, to people,
make the gospel tasty to the world. But preaching Christ and
His holiness, and who He is, and that, you know, Christ Himself
said, unless you repent, you will likewise perish. Dealing
with repentance, without repentance, there's no forgiveness of sin.
It isn't about a decision. You need to repent, and turn
away from your wicked ways, and turn toward the living God, and
put your faith and trust in Christ, in Him alone. And in this, in
the process of proclamation, God, you know, we need to spend
time and I'll be quick. We need to spend time in prayer.
We need to see God. We need to return to fasting.
You know, we need we need I mean, these things seem like ancient
things, you know, the ancient art of our fathers, you know,
fasting and prayer. because we've been so caught
up in this mainstream of intellectualism that we just want to study every
book out there, you know, every new way to share your faith that's
out there. We want to practice all these
things, but we don't have any neology in our lives. We're not
on our knees. You know, we're not seeking to
live in God. We're not getting unction from on high, you know,
and we're not fasting. We're not pushing away the plate.
You know, there is no discipline in our lives whatsoever. All
discipline is always looking at is legalism. So, you know,
we need to return. We need to return as men and
women and get on our face before God, before we ever go out into
the streets and proclaim the gospel. Because number one, the
value of the gospel deserves more than just your lip service.
And number two, you want to proclaim the gospel from the unction of
God. You want to go out there empowered by the Spirit of God
when you proclaim. You want God to put power and
force behind that truth. And underneath that is, and I
had mentioned that earlier in between some of the sessions,
that again, one's theology reflects in their methodology and vice
versa. And so if you're in death or indwelled by the Holy Spirit,
obviously you have to be indwelled by the Holy Spirit to go out,
but if you're delving into the Word and you're living it and
breathing it, eating it, and as Paul Worcester says, you can't
fake a prayer life. You have to be involved with
the Word intimately to go out there and make an impact because
you can even know all the theology and you're not changing anything
because of a lot of head knowledge. But again, theology is very important
because it's going to, again, reflect in your methodology.
Like we'll be talking more about tomorrow night is the fact of
the vicarious atonement of Jesus Christ versus the Pelagian view
of the atonement, those who deny original sin. And we see their
methodology And they're street preaching. They're self-righteous,
and they're beating up everybody. They're not remembering if it
wasn't for the grace of God. They're Gawaias. John Newton
got converted on a slave ship as God whipped up a tempest in
the Atlantic and humbled him. And he was a drunken, womanizing
slave ship runner. And he wrote that song, Amazing
Grace. How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once
was lost, but now I'm found, was blind, now I see. People
hear that all the time at funerals and all these things, and they
don't realize how important that song is to the one who wrote
it under the conditions he wrote it in. I know I'm getting carried
away here a little bit, but we've got to have straight theology
to go out there and preach the word, because if we go out there
and preach stuff that is not biblical, faith comes by hearing,
and Jesus' sheep hear his voice. And if you're not preaching the
truth of the gospel, you're not going to get sheeps. In fact,
you might get converts to that particular criteria, and it's
not good. I'll take a quick shot at all
three. I think humanism is another form
of creature worship. I think there are two great religions
in the world, creator worship or creature worship. And I think
humanism is sort of the latter. And actually, to throw in a tie
to the earlier topic, I think decisionism is sort of a symptom
of creature worship as well. Just a correction, earlier I
said that Calvin was a Presbyterian. I guess I should say he shares
a Presbyterian view on baptism. The second one, have I seen a,
well, I guess the third one, plan what to say. I certainly
do. I sometimes use Act 17 as a template. It's kind of when
Paul was speaking before the Areopagus or the Greek Supreme
Court, we can call it. And Paul had like a list of topics
that he went through, including things like predestination and
he dealt with last things and so forth. So that's kind of a,
can be a template or an outline for us to follow when we go out
and speak with people. And can one improve? Definitely.
I mean, when I first became a college pastor, I look back on some of
my talks and I'm ashamed of it. I'm like, what was I saying?
What on earth? And it was, yeah, there's definitely
a comfort level that can be reached and a certain familiarity with
scripture that's improved with use. It's like with anything
else, you can just sort of practice. conversions on a spot I'll leave
for somebody else. But I've been very blessed that in college
ministry sometimes you get these rather dramatic changes in students
and that is the most exciting thing ever. When you see the
Word of God just really touch and change a student and they
just become on fire. The Holy Spirit just takes a
hold of those students. It's just amazing. We can all attest to putting
our foot in our mouth as we're younger in the faith. We get
excited and we learn wrong things and we say a lot of things in
our zeal and I've been a Christian now for over 17 years, and I'm
still pulling my foot out of my mouth, but not as much as
I used to, praise God. But I think it's good for us
to understand we're fallen creatures, so we're not going to do it perfect.
And one other quick thing, when we do go out, I know a lot of
times when I've prepared, I haven't went out as much over the last
year or so, but I have recently. It's like you got on your heart.
Sometimes I have so many things I want to say, but when I get
out there, I guess God had other plans because I didn't quote
all these verses I planned on or whatever, you know. And so
sometimes you never know, but you got to be paired up. You
got to be read up and you go out there and you trust the Lord.
And sometimes you think it's not going on, but all of a sudden
he brings somebody to you and all of a sudden you get engaged.
All of a sudden you just start preaching finally or you're talking to
somebody. But you need to be prepared, and I think if you're
in the Word constantly, you're going to be ready when you have
those encounters, and that's important. And sometimes, even
when we are a little bit stagnant, God will give us that Word sometimes
in His great mercy. Like I said, the Holy Spirit
will give you the words to speak. But again, we all do put our
foot in our mouth sometimes, but as we mature in our faith,
I think we do it a lot less than we should. You know, also one note, sometimes
you won't have time to prepare something. So just make sure
you're familiar with the gospel, with what it is. There's so many
different definitions by Christians today, what the gospel is. Again,
Paul says in Romans chapter one, the gospel concerns the son.
The gospel is not to sinners. It concerns the son. The gospel
concerns the son. Everyone go home and read Romans
chapter one, one through three concerns the son. It's the work
of the sun. So many times, particularly if
you're not in ministry full time, you're not going to have a chance
when someone comes to you and asks you a question, you meet
someone, you don't have a chance to prepare something. Just know
what the gospel is, know who Christ is, have a passage that
shows Jesus is God and what he did to be sure. Nobody's spoken
on this, so I guess I will. Has has any of us seen salvation
on the spot? Is that what you asked? Well, that's difficult to say.
I've seen what I thought was salvation on the spot, but there
again, that goes back to even my days as an evangelist and
all the declarations of salvations that I made toward thousands
of people. You're saved, you're saved, did you mean it? Sure,
you're saved, you hear that snap, you did it, you fold down. You
know, at one-on-one, I have seen God move people in such a way
that there was a brokenness about them and a repentance about them.
That I would have said that is the moment that God regenerated
their hearts and lives. The proof in that is going to
be a life then battling the flesh, fighting the good fight of faith
with their hands to the plow, never looking back. So it's one
of those things that we see in the scripture where Paul says
we endure. And when we see in Hebrews that we endure, we see
in John's writing that we last, we stay in the faith. We stand firm in the faith. And
so, yes, it's hard to say. I don't think any of us could
say yet that was the day that we're saved, just like all of
us would probably look back and say until a couple of weeks ago,
you know, and then maybe maybe it was a year ago or maybe it
was 10 years ago or maybe. And now I'm realizing that God
saved me before the foundation. And in that context, I've been
able to see that what God does in the hearts of his children
is that when you are sharing your faith, that you are preparing
for. You don't get in the Word of
God as a student from an academic perspective because that's what
you want to learn. There's nothing wrong with it.
But you get in the Word of God because you want Christ more
than everything. You wish the entire matter of
the universe would just dissipate before you and everything would
just get out of the way so that Christ would stand in your face.
That's why we get in the word of God. And when we come to that,
then we have a passion and a desire to be students of the word, to
put an academic neology and prayer and study and an effectual passion
over this text. When that's there and then we
live our lives out, then when God puts us in front of those
people, whether we know we're going to be talking to just what
some people would call chance. I don't believe in that. But
you talk with someone and you see God's effectual calling in
the text. Then the proof of that salvation
is played out in a lifetime of being devoted to the gospel and
to Christ. So that's the only way I could
answer that. But to say, yeah, I've seen many situations where
I would did that, but there again, we can't say that. That's just
what I would think in that regard. I got a question for teams. Yeah, Dr. T. Sands, you teach
in the colleges. What is because we do have some
school college students here and we all know him anyway. What is the best way you've realized
to evangelize college students who most of them are pretty much
taught humanistic and naturalistic kind of understandings, what
have you found to be the best way to reach the average college going student? That's a great question, Tim,
and I'll try to keep it short, but I think that there's an interesting
sort of spirit in the university in that it's very postmodern
when it comes to literature and humanities, but it's very modern
when it comes to sciences. In other words, science is viewed
as having absolute truth and humanities, and they would probably
stick Christianity in that category, but it's all viewed as like values
or relative things. And so you kind of go in with
that understanding. And I did a lot of work with
pre-med students at Stanford, so a lot of science sorts of
challenges came at me. And I realized that there are
three areas that unbelievers can never provide a challenge
to scripture in. And those three areas are, number
one, what is called epistemology, or how do we know? Science cannot
explain how the, or I should say naturalistic science, ungodly
science, cannot explain how the brain, which is just a big bunch
of atoms banging together, can provide truth. And therefore,
when unbelieving scientists argue that Christianity is irrational,
they're really not standing on very solid ground. Whereas for
Christians, we can point to the Logos. a Greek word from which
we derived the word logic from, and say that Christianity is
eminently rational and can explain how we think and how we know,
whereas unbelieving science cannot do that. And that wins almost
every argument, it's astonishing. I probably didn't phrase it very
well, but when you get into discussions and you keep asking, how do you
know what you're thinking is true? Why should I respect the internal
turnings of your mind any more than any other chemical reaction?
There's not really a good convincing answer to that. So one area is
epistemology, or how we know. The second area is how do we
know what is right and wrong, known as ethics. In unbelieving
thought, all ethics comes down to what I think is right. There
is no absolute truth anywhere. And so eventually it comes down
to some form of utilitarianism, what is most beneficial to the
most sentient beings. But that doesn't work. People
disagree. What's hey, this is best for me. I don't care if
it's bad for me and best for 15 people. I'm still going to
do what's best for me. There's no way to ever come to a consensus
on what is right. And so as Dostoevsky says, without
God, anything is possible. And that doesn't lead to a very
clear ethical system. The third area is cosmology.
And there's some humorous responses when you ask unbelievers, where
did life come from? You get very high level scientists saying
that life was seeded on Earth by like alien species and things
like that. It's just it's really pretty astonishing how they can
make fun of Genesis. But those three areas, only scripture
has consistent answers to that. So I would say those are the
three areas that are very convincing to sort of more intellectual
college students. Amen. Yeah. I have a question about
using your personal testimony as an icebreaker for talking
about the gospel with people. Is that advisable? Does it turn people off? Maybe it's not the best approach.
What's your opinion? I think I'll start this one first. I think personal testimony is
a good testimony in the sense that you're proclaiming something.
But the one thing about it is you want to practice what you
preach, because if you're proclaiming one thing and then you're being
a hypocrite, I mean, we all slip up because we're still sinners,
even though we're saved. But we really have to watch because
the one of Satan's names is the accuser of the brethren. So he
wants us to look bad. So there's a plus and a minus
side, I think, to that. Another time, a lot of cold experts
will tell you when the Jehovah Witnesses, when you're talking
to them and stuff, sometimes it's good to give them a personal
testimony because they can't refute that because that's personal.
Although a lot of Mormons have a personal testimony that's,
you know, they believe that the Book of Mormon because they got
some warm feeling in their stomach. And, you know, we don't go by
feelings like that. But bottom line, your question, I think
it is good. But again, we need to be walking
the walk if we're going to pose that. And that's important because
we want to practice what we preach. You know, there's one thing I'll
say on that, too, because a lot of people quote this. It's kind
of related. St. Francis of Assisi, it says,
preach the gospel at all times and when necessary, use words.
And a lot of people say that to say, because my face is personal,
I don't want to talk about it. But what's funny, and you'll
learn if you get that video, even Go Stand Speak, Jeff Rose
was a part of that. It was kind of a documentary
on evangelism. And Francis of Assisi, he was
actually a street preacher who went into villages, proclaiming
the gospel in open air. So he wasn't one just to be this
quiet guy. But again, A personal testimony is good,
but we need to back up in our actions, and that should be the
case if we're truly born again. In the in the issue of personal
testimony, I always think about Paul and Paul uses personal testimony
in prisons. He uses personal testimony before
King Agrippa, before Caesar. And but we have to understand
the content of what Paul's testimony was. And in our national convention,
the Southern Baptists have done a wonderful job of pushing people
away from the gospel and interpersonal decision regeneration because
of some of the programs that we've developed. One of those
is called the faith program. I won't knock and I won't say
who did it, but you can look it up, of which I'm highly certified
with a bunch of certificates that I've thrown away through
the years. And but one of the things you do is you talk about
life before Christ and you talk about the moment of salvation.
What is that moment? So it's a lifetime of experience
with Christ. But and then what life is like
after salvation. So you you talk about, yeah,
I was a drunk. I was working, you know, and
then then God came and I accepted, you know, and then afterwards,
now my life's been glory. It teaches us to be liars, number
one, because it's sort of like bad life. I bought the magic
water and the good luck coin and his name is Jesus. And then
after my life's been dandelions. Well, I'm allergic to those things.
So when it when it comes down to it, the gospel must be your
testimony. So I am lost. What does Paul say with zeal?
I fought against the church that I've rejected and persecuted
the Christians so that I might destroy their way. That's a paraphrase.
I'm sure that's how he said it. But he hated them. And then Christ
met me and saved me by grace so that I could proclaim to you
that He is the living God and He has died and raised from the
dead. I mean, that's really the ultimate
thing we've been talking about this weekend. And so that I think
that if the personal testimony is the gospel power, it's one
thing. But I'll be straight. There's
so many times I hear it. And I've seen young people, especially
in high school and college when I was a student pastor. And we
buy this curriculum and you hear these kids. Yeah, I used to be
in marijuana pot smoker. Now I'm saved and I have joy. Really? Well, that's not going
to lead people to Christ. So your testimony has to be the
gospel in that regard, if it's a spoken testimony. What he said
on that, and what I left out is, in our testimony, it's got
to be Christ. We can't say, I've done this
and I've done that. We've got to point people to Christ, and
it's because of what Christ has did and what He's done. He paid
it full on the cross, John 19, 30. That's why Paul says, I don't
want to know anything else except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
That is the message, the imputed righteousness of Christ to the
believer. It's what He did, nothing that we can do. In fact, he told
in John 6, the disciples, he says, They said, what work should
we do? Believe on him who did the work. That's a paraphrase.
But he did the work. We can never do any good works
to get saved. So in our testimony, we've got to make sure we're
exalting Christ and we give him all the glory. That's why, again,
it is called grace, because Christ is king and he's Lord. We're
not waiting for him as Jeff is priest. He's Lord, always been
Lord, is Lord now and always will be Lord. Amen, I know I
see my camera flashing so we're about out of time If you guys got more questions,
I got a couple other cameras here with with chips that can
keep going so I This one is for Jeff, and there
was varying opinions on this, and Tim and myself have talked
about it a great deal. In 2 John, verse 10, well there's
another chapter in verse 10, it says, So, if somebody was to come to
your door and propound another gospel, to proclaim a different
gospel other than what you received, do you think it would be acceptable
and the right and loving thing to do and to command to preach
the gospel to every creature, to allow him in your house and
sit down and set him straight on his bad theology? Yeah, I mean, I think the whole
thing of letting them, you know, to let them into your house.
I mean, I personally really don't really want them to come into
my house, to be totally honest with you. I just didn't deal
with it right there. I mean, stand up and, you know, they
come up to my door, I'll meet them at the door, I'll come out.
Now, obviously, you know, Tim and these guys will let them
in and they'll want to debate with them as you went through
the Greek with with some Jehovah's Witnesses and stuff like that.
I mean, your whole motive is to show them truth. You are allowing
them to come in to indoctrinate you and your household and falling
in agreement with their doctrines of demons. You're bringing them
in for the fact because you're going to proclaim truth to them. You are the one that, if I could
use the word, take dominion over your home. You are in control.
You're not bringing them in and allowing them to take control
and to spread their demonic doctrines throughout your home and appeasing
them by just feeding them and doing all these things for them
and being in agreement with what they're preaching. You're bringing
them in so you can basically dialogue with them to win them
to Christ. Now, me personally, I would preferably be outside
with them and deal with them outside and speak with them there. And if there's some progress,
Maybe we can take it further. But if there's no progress, I'm
not just going to bring them into my house. I just took a quick look at the
Greek, and in the NIV, it says, don't take him into your house
or welcome him. In Greek, it actually says, don't take him
into your house and welcome him. So it seems like the emphasis
is on the welcoming. And so I think it's right that if you bring
someone into your house and you want to argue Greek with them to try
to show them where they're wrong, that that's one thing. But if
you bring them in to welcome them, that's entirely another.
Anyway, however people think about that, it's not an or, it's
an and. Yeah, absolutely, I was going
to comment on that. The Greek is clear. In other words, don't
welcome him as a brother. Now, we have to understand the
context also of 2 John. First, 2 John was written about
what? Well, specifically, it dealt
with docetic Gnostics. Specifically. Historically, 2
John was probably written first because in 2 John they were still
in the church and in 1 John they left the church, but it's shorter
and normally if you look at the New Testament, the books have
a declining order of content But we can negate the context,
I think, answers it for us in 1 and 2 John. Don't welcome the
Gnostics in. Don't greet him as a brother
and say, hey, come on in, brother. Let me greet you as a fellow
Christian. That's John's whole point about the Gnostics. And
also, oikos has been used to denote a church. Don't let greet
someone and let them teach doctrine in your church. Paul uses the
term oikos. for house in Acts 20, I think
verse 20, I think 19 or 20 testifying from church to church or house
to house. Well, but whether it's house
where you live or where they're having service, don't welcome
a Jehovah's Witness in and treat him as a fellow Christian, treat
him as the object of evangelism. So I think because of the grammar
there and the context, It's not saying when the Mormons and Jehovah's
Witnesses come to our house, just close the door on them.
But it's saying don't welcome, don't greet them and welcome
them as a brother. Don't treat them as a Christian
brother and let them propagate their doctrine there. So I think
the context and the grammar, I think, answers it for us. So, I was always very strong
on my position that I wouldn't let anybody come into my house,
but I always greeted them on the porch because I wanted to
talk to them about the true Jesus of the Bible. And, you know,
I talked to Delcor a little bit about that, and because I met
up with these Mormons in the front of my house who was visiting
another house a while back, and we spoke up a conversation. They
said they wanted to come back, and I figured if they come back,
I better just have them come up my kitchen table. And I had
a good conscience about it then, so the MP3 player up on the light
above there so I could record the conversation. I told them
about that. I can't remember. No, I'm just kidding. I did that
for the purpose so I could listen to sharpen myself to be able
to answer them better. After a while, I got a little
crazy, but on that particular verse, you know, I don't know
if that's a good word. I kind of caved in, but I felt
if they're coming back, you know, I don't want to just talk to
them on my porch since I invited them back. So I figured I would
invite them into my house. But I definitely they tried to
teach, but I continually taught them and ask them questions that
would make them think. And I kept on diverting them
so they wouldn't have an opportunity to teach a course. There was
nobody else at my house anyway to listen. Like I didn't have
any children or wife to be indoctrinated by them. It was just kept coming
back, you know, and not getting anywhere with me. And they bring
new guys. And so I'm just preaching truth
to them. Then they bring the older guy in there who's trying
to. And then he takes the floor and I keep on proof. And he said
there was a bunch and never brought any back. I think you have to
have your conscience on that, but you've got to be careful
to guide and be equipped, as Brother Ed just said. I guess,
does that answer your question, bro? Longer a take on that or
a different view, read it and have differences on it and don't
have to divide over it, because our salvation is not hinging
on that particular verse or context. But Sister Margaret has a question.
Proclaiming the gospel, I was taught that Our responsibility
is to open our mouths without assuming whether or not. So going back to on David and
Goliath earlier, that David pointed out that there is a God and make
any effort to explain to these people why they should believe
in this God and God is the only living God. So I have a two-part
question. Part one is, was David assuming
that these are non-elects? Did David miss an evangelistic
opportunity this way? Well, yeah, I won't be long to
think of in the Gospels. I don't remember exactly what
verse it is where Jesus is talking to Caiaphas and talking about
him destroying the temple. And he says to Caiaphas, destroy
this temple in three days. I will raise it up. Caiaphas
didn't understand what he was talking about, the spiritual
implications of what he was saying. But what Christ said was still
true, regardless whether Caiaphas understood it or not. it was
still proclaimed and it was still true. Presuppositionally, it's
still true. And the Bible says in Romans
that all men know that there's a God, but they suppress the
truth and unrighteousness. That all men know that there
is a living God. They know that God exists. And
I mean, there's an awareness, there's enough awareness of God
to condemn somebody for all eternity. People know that there's a God.
So when David's proclaiming the God of Israel, You know,
he's claiming that he's the God creator of all things. And when
he said he's the Lord of hosts, you know, that references Christ
dealing with, obviously, the tabernacle in Isaiah 6, 5, when
he sees Jesus Christ high and lifted up, the Lord of hosts,
you know. So he's proclaiming the Word
of God in the open air, in the midst of unbelievers and believers. And he's declaring who God is,
whether or not they believe in that or believe in that, you
know, that or not. They know God in judgment, but
they don't know God in mercy unless God opens their heart
and gives them his grace. But still, the truth must be
proclaimed, even when we're out on the streets proclaiming to
the lost world. All men are commanded to repent,
but not all men are enabled by God to repent. They're commanded
to repent and believe the gospel. But not all men can believe unless
God enables them to believe. But that does not restrict us
from the gospel proclamation to all people. We proclaim the
gospel to all people. We proclaim who God is in the
midst of all people. And God and His power does as
He sees fit and saves for whom He wants to save His elect. But
we glorify God by proclaiming. David glorified God by proclaiming
who God was. and did not compromise. This
is the God of Israel. You come to me this way. I come
to you this way. And he declared who God was. That's an excellent question,
and I think about Acts 13 when Paul and Barnabas say this. We
had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you rejected
and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now
turn to the Gentiles. For this is what the Lord has
commanded us. I've made you a light for the
Gentiles that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth. And
that apparently is the substance of their sermon, which isn't
exactly following any great evangelistic formula. And yet when the Gentiles
heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord
and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. And so
that sermon had great effect. And I think David does actually
preach a sermon and sort of mixed in with a little bit of trash
talk to the Philistines. For instance, this is in 1 Samuel
17, 46. This day, the Lord will hand you over to me and I'll
strike you down and cut off your head. Today, I will give the
carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the
beasts of the field, and the whole world will know that there
is a God in Israel. So the whole world will know
that there is a God in Israel. All those gathered here will
know that it is not by sword or spear that the Lord saves,
but the battle is the Lord's and he will give you all into
our hands. So I think David's making it
very clear that God is God and that the battle is his and that
he says that the whole world will know this. Did that answer your question
sufficiently? All right, man. to with all of the married men
up there. It's more of a practical question
in regards to the calling into ministry that you guys have in
regards to prioritizing and spending time with your families and managing
your households well. Although that is a command for
all married men, but specifically in regards to those of you who
go out evangelizing and those of you who debate and those of
you who are pastors how to prioritize and manage time well in regards
to home life? Well, it all starts in the home,
doesn't it? I mean, scripturally speaking, you know, we see that. I mean, obviously, you know,
the Word of God measures us by our ability to control our households. you know, and whether or not
our kids are obedient with without reproach. I know he's dealing
a lot with ministers and everything else. But I think in principle,
if you're a born again believer and you have a family and you're
all proclaiming the word of God outdoors and you're a reproach
in the house, you're a monster to your wife, a monster to your
kids. But you're also become Superman when you're out there
on the out there on the street corner. There's a problem because
open air preaching or proclamation or evangelism should be an overflow.
of your life and your marriage. Because all these things, you
can't split them up into different segments, saying one is secular,
one is holy. When I preach on the street,
I'm doing something holy for the Lord. But when I'm home with
my wife, you know, it's such an inconvenience for me. I've
got to go out and do holy things. They're just getting in the way
of all these spiritual things that I have to do, my ministry.
But in reality, Scripher declares that, you know, gospel preaching
and proclamation takes place in all areas of our lives. The
way we talk to our wives, the way we raise our children, the
way we deal with our home, the way we train up our children,
the way we do things, the way we, you know, we go about life.
Life in general must be gospel-powered. We can't just say, well, I can,
you know, when I'm not out preaching or I'm not preaching behind the
pulpit, I can pretty much do whatever I want. You know, everything
else needs to take a step aside for my ministry. We're not realizing
that, you know, that your wife and how God sees the marriage
covenant, how God sees the home is very important to public proclamation. I know for certain, if I've offended
my wife and I go try to preach, it's crazy because it just it
just doesn't work. It's just, I mean, it's just,
it's just, there's something there, you know, that's missing. And
I know when we have a, I have a good help me, and I know that
things are taken, things are in order in my home. And then
I come here, and I'm able to preach, or I'm able to go out
in the streets, I'm able to itinerate and do some things. There's a
release, there's a sense that my conscience is free to preach
the Word of God. It's unhindered. But I know if
there's a problem at home that my proclamation is definitely
hindered. So, yes, I am. I'm married. I'm
not wearing a ring. Neither is my wife right now.
She has an infection on her finger, so she doesn't wear the ring. But we don't have kids, and I
think that makes a big difference. And I think it has to start at
home. I agree with Jeff. I think that's
a marvelous statement that If things aren't right at home,
then things aren't going to be right when you're preaching.
And the temptation is always to try to look like a holy man
in front of people when you're just a terrible guy at home.
And that's one to always, yeah, just by God's grace to really
work on and really avoid. So yeah, that's my, I have no
kids, so I can't really talk too much about time management.
It's a lot easier, I think, without kids. Someone once said, when mama's
happy, the whole family's happy. I know with my wife, you know,
we discuss any trips that I'm going to go on, and I try to
bring her as much as I can, out as much as I can. But, you know,
for us as husbands, and I used to ask her, you know, I'm doing
a men's study tonight. What should I preach about? Preach
about husbands, how to treat wives. Every single time I asked
her. Poor Tia. But there is a passage that I
have dealt with many times. It's in 1 Peter 3, 7. It's kind
of a scary passage for husbands. It says, you husbands, in the
same way, cathos, in the exact same way, live or cohabitate
with your wives, and literally, I can do it better in Greek,
and having knowledge that they're a weaker vessel. So, cohabitate
with her, having knowledge. It's not talking about intellection,
but having knowledge that they're a weaker vessel. And then it
says, since she is a woman, honor her, show her honor as a fellow
heir of grace of life. Then it says, in order that your
prayers will not be stopped or cut off. That's a scary place.
It's the only place in the Bible that I can find if you do something,
your prayers as a believer will be cut off. Unless you show her
honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, The Lord says
your prayers will be stopped. So I always have to remember
that. That's why I never win arguments. I'm just completely
silent when she's doing her emotional thing. But, you know, she's not
here so I can say that. Yeah. But yeah, as a Christian husband
in full-time ministry, it can be very difficult. But we talk
about where I'm going to go, and I try to include her. I say
we when I'm talking about the ministry, because she's certainly
a part of it. I try to include her in everything.
You'll be much happier. typically in preparing for certain
things in the study time that you put in the discipline in
that in a daily life. How that looks and then spending
time with your wife because I've been married for seven six months
now. And so learning that being in the same room as my wife.
Although I might be occupied with something else, it's not
the same as spending time talking to her and those things. So,
disciplining thus time and knowing that it's needed to prepare and
to study and all of this, you know, knowing to know theology
and to know how to divide the word correctly and then knowing,
again, how that will apply to thus time with our wives. Being
in the ministry that I am, she understands that my study time
is part of the job. I mean, it really is. It's part
of doing what I do. to be equipped to make accurate
proclamation and teach. So she understands that, so it's
a good, you know, I'm allowed to go out to Starbucks and study
for hours. I remember when I graduated in
London, the dean, he said to the wives, you know, first he
wanted to thank all the graduates, and then he said, I'd like to
also thank the academic widows, and they all stand up and clapped.
But yeah, you have to make him feel, as a Christian husband,
I have to spend time with her. And we pray every night. And
I have to show her that I'm putting her as a priority. Because in
point of fact, before ministry, first and foremost, aside from
God, is the wives, not the ministry. Really, biblically speaking,
the wives. And so you need to have a good marriage environment.
And it's a work. It's not the easiest thing to
do. And I've spoken with you Stephen
Stephen has a child coming in the next year. What was it January
February? And as for those of you who know
Stephen is called to the pastorate, so he's preparing in many many
ways I'll be straight and very exposing if I can with some things
in the in the peak of our ministry at the mega churches that we
pastored and were part of in the past. My wife came to me
one afternoon and she says, I'm tired of being a single mother.
I have four children. And it was right around the birth
of our right before the birth of our final child. So it's a
little bit a little over seven years ago that that statement
came from her mouth. And and my response was one of
anger in my head. Woman, you don't know what I
have to deal with. Now I have to deal with you saying, you
know, so there was a definite clear disqualification in that
season of my life. It caused a very, very it was
on top of a lot of other theological things that I was dealing with.
I forsaked my family in ministry for the sake of what I thought
was God's will. Even though it might have been
God's will, it became it became an idol above her as a husband. And I began to realize what marriage
is. Marriage is and I'll use my mentor,
Adrian to pray, who says this best, a microscopic picture of
a macrocosmic reality. So and how do we know that? Because
Paul, with apostolic authority, says that creation, see, God
gave the first wife to Adam. So when we give that, like when
I did your wedding and we gave the bride away, that was symbolic. It was a picture of God giving
the bride to Adam. And then Paul says that the man
and woman shall become one flesh. And I say that it is like Christ
in the church. The purpose of the marriage is
to be a small little commercial of the church. And so if we forsake
the marriage, then the ministry is useless. We're powerless,
we're prayerless, we're working our butts off in our own power
in preparation for that, especially with four children from six of
14 almost You have you have these seasons like this week and this
weekend Daddy will not be home. I hugged my children yesterday
when I left and I will not see them again until tomorrow morning
Because they'll be in the bed when I get home tonight You know,
so probably my 14 year old, my 13 year old will probably be
up a little bit. But the reality is, is that I have to prepare
them for that. And it can't be forever. It can't be always.
Something that you said, like when I was talking with you,
with Brother D'Alcor, and I said, we talk about the church plant
that we're about to move and start back east. We have been
planning and praying to plant that church or plant a church
in that area for nearly a decade, a little over a decade, actually.
And his question was, who is we? And my wife and I have been
praying and planning. And yes, I'm the one called the
pastor, but she's as much called the ministry as I am. And so
a wife that does not allow you to study and to preach in a normal
way and minister in a normal way without that, like you talked
about, Jeff, without being out on the field going, oh, my gosh,
am I going to come home with my bags packed? Especially in an itinerant
ministry where you're traveling a lot. So it's an encompassing
thing where you pray together and God calls the two of you. to the balance. Here's the dichotomy
that God is still trying to work out with me. And I've tried to
write on this, but I feel like I'm high when I do it. So I'm a I'm
a bride. I'm a sheep husband and a shepherd. It's the weirdest thing in the
world to be a married man and be in the ministry. It really
is. So for whatever it's worth, it takes a lot of sleepless nights.
And God gives gives us the grace to be able to stay up and study
for our Ph.D. Jonathan Edwards says that our houses are our
churches and we're the pastors of our churches. Thank you for
the question. Most difficult question we've
had. Seems I'm single. I won't answer
that. Could you guys offer your best
philosophical description of the Trinity? Do you think you know what I
mean by that? It's very difficult for the church
historically to offer a philosophical will of the heart. in the mind,
but there's no person in the second biblical pillar. We see
three persons that are presented as God, and the third pillar
is an ontological monotheism, one God. But we see three persons. Those are the three pillars of
the Trinity, and that's why it's a difficult philosophical definition. But then he's three persons.
OK, what do we mean when we say three persons? And that's a very,
very good. And, you know, because when we
say person, when you're talking to someone who denies the Trinity
or even accepts the truth, when you say person, when we say person,
what what do most people equate person to? People, right, people,
God is not a people. You know, even though there has
been some person and we we've enjoyed the word person to each
member of the Trinity possesses the personhood. So I have no
problem calling the three members three external. They have personal
attributes. I don't know any other word. I think that simply
they possess personal attributes. Will they love? I can put them in since they
fit. the term ontologically, a person, because they possess
personal attributes. They're not people. All people
are persons, but not all persons are people. Angels, we would...
Jehovah's Witnesses have no problem calling the devil a person, or
angels a person. Why? Because they talk. But when
it comes to the Holy Spirit, they don't use person, even though
in Acts 13 and Acts 10, the Holy Spirit actually talks. It speaks
only with only something with intellectual cognition can speak
or can love. And in Romans 1530 says the Holy
Spirit gives love. Only a person can give love. So that's why we use the word
person, because each member has possesses personal attributes. Obviously, all those philosophical
demonstrations of the water, ice and steam and all these different
things, they all break down because we're talking about an infinite
God. And I remember early on in my salvation, as I thought
about and contemplated the Trinity, I sat there and tried to figure
out this one day. And if you could probably took
a picture, there's probably smoke coming out of my ears because
You can't really fathom the Trinity. You know, the Bible teaches it.
It comes from a deduction of scripture. We break down and
we see that there is one true God. But the three distinct personages
in the Godhead, as he just described, you know, they can talk, they
relate, they command, they love, they send, they communicate.
It's one of those unfathomable doctrines, I think, that an infinite
God allows us to apprehend certain aspects, but not fully comprehend
it. You have anything on that team? I think it's important
to say that's not a logical contradiction and that we have things that
could be three in one sense and one in another sense, for instance,
and this is not an analogy for the Trinity, because they all
do break down. But for instance, when we think of a board of directors,
it's one board of directors, but it may involve a president
secretary and treasurer or something like that. So it's one in one
sense and three in another sense. I don't, there's no, there's
no logical contradiction going on. And if I could just share
a verse, John looks into the new Jerusalem and he says this,
then the angel showed me the river of the water of life as
clear as crystal flowing from the throne of God and of the
lamb. And I think what's beautiful about that picture is that the
throne is of God the Father and of Jesus, who is the Lamb, and
the Holy Spirit, the living water is flowing straight out of this
throne. So all three of them are sitting on this throne in heaven.
So as far as persons, centers of consciousness, I mean, that
stuff gets all messy, but I don't think it's a logical contradiction.
And I do think scripture presents all three as being one God. Does anybody else want to tackle
anything? I think we need the end pretty
quick. It's been a long day. Oh, he has a question in the
sound booth. All right. I don't think you're allowed
to ask questions from there. You can't ask questions in the sound booth. You'll probably
give it to him. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. OK.
This is for any of the brothers, mainly because Jeff mentioned
this about fasting. If you could give us some examples
of how you fast and how long. Well, I know that like my wife,
she did like three or four 40 day fast with just like juice
only. And to me, that's crazy because
I do like to eat. But, you know, it's a correction
to me as well, because I need to be reminded that I still need
to fast. I think fasting is biblical.
Jesus says when you fast, not if you fast. Fasting is an important
part of our disciplines with God. So I think fasting, it's
really preference. I don't think that any specific
way is the right or wrong way. I just think that, you know,
if we look down through church history, I look at a lot of the
evangelists like Whitefield and different guys. I mean, I get
a lot of my patterns from them. You know, some of these guys
would fast Tuesdays and Thursdays and different times. that they
would pick to fast, or the church fathers, or whatever. But I do
know personally that when I do fast, there's a lot of changes
in my life personally. And I do see the effects of fasting
in a very positive and powerful way, even in public proclamation. When there's fasting in prayer,
there seems to be a lot more power in the proclamation. Anybody else want to add to that
or are we done? I think that says it. I think
that will wrap it up. Yeah, well that... Before we close and if we all
join together in prayer for you guys specifically and where you
all will head out and disperse to and the ministries that you
guys are all a part of. Sure. Heavenly Father, Lord, we come
before your throne this evening, Lord, just with such grateful
hearts, Lord, and just humbled by how infinite you are. Lord, we
just praise you for that, for this weekend, Lord, that you
have allowed us to be a part of, Lord, and just to hear your
grace in each one of the lives that are sitting here before
us, O God. And we pray for them especially tonight, O Lord, that
your hand may be upon them as they go about the rest of this
day, and as they go about going to their homes, Lord, and their
families, and Lord, I just pray that you would just continue
to just bless their ministries mightily, O God, and that you
would just continue to pour your grace out to them, Lord, that
they may have strength, Lord, if it is your will, and that
they may be filled with joy, Lord, even in the midst of their
sufferings, Lord, even as we think of Brother Jeff and going
out to the streets, Lord, enduring the persecution and enduring
the insults and these things and knowing, Lord, that You said
that this would happen, Lord. So I pray that He would just
rest in Your joy, Lord. And I just pray for the men that
stand up against those who blaspheme Your name, Lord, that You would
just allow them to stand in that gap, Lord, and just shout, Lord,
for Your name, Lord, for You are King. And You are Lord over
all things, O God. So continue, Lord. We know that
your knowledge and your wisdom is infinite, Lord. And we sit
here, Lord, and able to see the wisdom that you have allowed
to pour into these men's lives, Lord, that you will continue,
Lord, to grow them in your grace and knowledge, O God, and that
you would just Lord, be with them, especially with, Lord,
just their travels home, Lord, and their families and their
children that they have, Lord, that you would just continue
to bless them, Lord. And we thank you for them, Lord, and we pray
that we would just truly encourage them, Lord, and continue to pray
for them, Lord, daily, Lord. And your word comes to mind once
again, Lord, that to encourage one another daily, as long as
it's called today, that none of us may be hardened by the
deceitfulness of sin. Lord, that these men are not
standing here apart from your grace, O God, and they need it
just like we do, O God. And I pray that you would just
continue to pour out your grace upon them. We ask this all in
your holy name. Amen. One last hymn tonight. I know
we're all pretty tired, but can you guess the name of the hymn
we're going to sing? Onward, Christian Soldiers. What's the number on that, Margaret?
493.