An Interview By Mail

I announced in the bulletin last
Sunday that there is a tape available of the message I preached this
morning on television entitled, The Way Out of the Mess We're
In. I listened again to this message
when I got home from church this morning. I taped it on the VCR. It's straightforward. It's very
plain, very, very plain, as plain a message as I've ever brought
on television regarding today's religion. I'd like for you to
get this tape. I'd like for you to listen to
it. I've declared some things. Did you hear it? It's very plain,
wasn't it? I'd like you to hear what I had
to say. I believe I had some things to say that need to be
said and need to be said in this plain fashion. You can get the
tape from the tape director. It's entitled, The Way Out of
the Mess We're In. And religion in this day, whether
you really are serious about it and concerned about it and
believe it, religion in this day is in a mess. Indescribable. Indescribable. Now, I confess that when I received
the first letter from Mr. Byrd in St. Albans, Charleston,
West Virginia, who is the head of Dateline Publications some
people who are publishing a new magazine in Charleston entitled
Our World. I didn't take it very seriously.
He wrote me a letter and said that he had on occasion listened
to our television program and noted the difference in our program
and the other programs on the air, other preachers. And he
was interested in conducting an interview with me for this
magazine for the November-December issue. I really didn't take it
very seriously because I'm not too excited about things like
that, interviews. I'm always afraid of the press.
I'm afraid of the media. They just, I don't know, don't
understand or something. They just don't present things
like they ought to be presented, and they're living in a different
world. They're living in a different world. But when I received the
second letter from this man, in which he enclosed the questions
for the interview, he said, I'm enclosing questions for our interview
by mail for the upcoming issue of Our World magazine. I have
attempted to play the role of the objective interviewer. and
have asked some basic questions, and they are good questions.
When I read them, they excited me because they were such good
questions. Now, he said, I can anticipate
your answers to some of them. Now, you say, why are you sharing
them with us? For several reasons. If you're turning your Bibles
to 1 Peter 3, and I'm not just trying to find a text Ronnie,
for this message, but this is the text. The message is called
Interview by Mail, and the text is 1 Peter 3. But I want you
to read this. This encouraged me to answer
these questions. In verse 15 of 1 Peter 3, 1 Peter
3, verse 15. But sanctify the Lord God in
your hearts. In other words, give God the
glory. You know what it's saying? Regard
God as holy. Like Paul said a moment ago,
regard God as the giver of every gift, the source of all mercy,
the fountain of all grace. Sanctify God in your heart. You're
nothing. I'm nothing. Paul, we are what
we are by the grace of God. I know that more now than I've
ever known it. I acknowledge it more strongly today than I've
ever acknowledged it. If we can breathe, it's by the
grace of God. If we can believe, it's by the grace of God. If
we can walk, it's by the grace of God. If we can work, it's
by the grace of God. If we can think, it's by the
grace of God. If we know any gospel, it's by
the grace of God. Fully, wholly, and completely
sanctify God in your heart. And be ready, be ready always
to give an answer. to every man that asks you for
a reason of the hope that is in you. Sanctify God in your heart. Know
where it came from. Know where your hope came from. Acknowledge the source of your
hope, but be ready. Be ready not to argue, debate,
or quarrel, or attack people, or agitate, but just be ready
to give an answer to a man that asks you for a reason. You believe
like you believe. The reason for your hope of eternal
life. The reason for your hope of eternal
mercies. We say we have mercies, well,
what's your reason? And do it, listen, do it with
meekness. Meekness and fear. So my reasons
for sharing this with you tonight are several. Number one, they're
excellent questions. They're excellent questions.
And number two, they deal with current issues. And as I said
to you this morning, this is what I'm interested in. I'm interested,
Cecil, in where we are. What's going on around me. I'm
interested in your problems, in your needs, in my problems,
in my needs, in my relationship with God. I can't keep talking
about Paul's relationship with God. David's relationship with
God. I've got to know him myself. They deal with current problems
and current needs, and I say this, they may never be published
in full. They may never be published.
Here's one sentence in his letter that troubles me just a little
bit. Just a little bit. I'm not certain
about him. However, I talked to him on the
telephone yesterday morning, and I did say this, don't edit
my answers. Don't do it now. Either publish
it or don't publish it. Either deal with the question
and the answer in full or leave it out. Leave it out. Because
you edit a man's answers and you make him say what he doesn't
say. That's what I don't like about the media. He said, I have
attempted to ask questions which hopefully will deliver a message
without unduly crushing some toes. Well, I'm not sure you
can do that. And here's what he said, I'm
sure you've walked this thin line many times, not too many
times. Really, I'm just being, I'm not
being facetious, but I'm really and truly, how can you tell the truth without
tearing into these old hearts of ours and these waves of ours
and this flesh of ours? See, this is what got us in the
mess we're in. is some preacher trying to keep
from unduly crushing some toad. Preachers walking a thin line.
There is no thin line. You're either for God or you're
against him. You're either preaching the gospel
or you're not. There's no thin line. I'm not walking a line. And that's the only thing that
bothers me in the whole thing, that one sentence. But we had
a talk, and I'm submitting it. It's got to be handled as I've
given it. And another reason why I'm giving these answers
to you tonight is that I have carefully, carefully thought
out these answers. Now each of these questions,
I could preach an hour on each one of them, and I'm not going
to preach 23 hours tonight, just 23 questions. This is not a telethon. But I've had to be brief, and
being brief takes a lot of study, a lot of time. Somebody asked
a man one time, said, would you speak for us? He said, well,
how long will I be speaking? He said, what difference does
it make? He said, well, if I'm going to speak two hours, I'm
ready now. If I'm going to speak 20 minutes, I'll have to have
a week or two to prepare. And another reason I'm giving
this to you is ours is a small, local ministry. I know that. We're not big time. We never
will be big time. Not interested in being big time. Ours is a small local ministry,
but now get this, we are as responsible for being true to the Word of
God as if we were speaking to the world. Is that not right? It doesn't matter if you are
small. You say, well, I'm nobody. You, in your area, and in your
location, and in your place, are as responsible for being
true to what God says as if you were speaking to the whole world.
What if everyone was true in that sense? Then we'd get the
true message to the whole work. But here's the introduction.
This is quite good, I think. This is written by Mr. Byrd,
and this will be the introduction to the article according to him. This is interesting. This caught
my attention immediately. On any given Sunday morning,
the television airways are dominated by now familiar scenes. whether
you're killing time waiting for the football game to begin or
purposely seeking them out. It's hard to miss the various
preachers and evangelists earnestly preaching their messages to the
masses. Televangelism has become a powerful
force in the world of religion. But the likes of Jim Baker and
Jimmy Swaggart have cast a shadow of skepticism on anyone involved
in a television ministry. To the unbeliever, diamond rings,
elaborate sets with chandeliers and grand pianos, and personalities
which seem stuck in perpetual bliss, epitomize the excessiveness
of the now stereotypical television evangelist. I didn't say that
now, this man wrote it. I love it. In the midst of the ministry's
efforts to be more entertaining and attract more viewers, there
is at least one local television preacher who seems to shun any
appearance of glamour or show business. In fact, if you're
not looking for him, there would be little to keep you from just
zipping past his program to more lively affairs. Not sure I like
that. But Henry Mahan, pastor of 13th
Street Baptist Church in Ashton, Kentucky, has been broadcasting
his no-frills style of ministry for 15 years. And the fact that
he asked for no money to support his ministry is reason enough
for a closer look at Mahan and his message. That's impressed
that man. Is his ministry a throwback to
times gone by? Is he a dinosaur doomed to extinction? Or is it a deliberate style to
separate his ministry from the others? Our World Magazine talked
to Reverend Mahan to get answers to these questions and others.
Now you may not agree with everything he has to say, but we hope you
will use his comments as a catalyst for further reflection and discussion.
That's powerful. That's powerful. All right, here
are the questions. I'll give them to you with the answers.
I'll try to be brief. But the questions are so good.
Number one, to tri-state viewers, your ministry, and this is talking
about your ministry. This is our ministry, these questions. Your ministry is different from
the other television ministries. You have no singing. You have
no musical performances, you have no guests, you have no healing. Nothing but 30 minutes of Henry
Mahan standing behind a pulpit. Why is there not more entertainment
in your television broadcast? My answer, the study of God's
word and the preaching of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
is certainly enjoyable. I didn't use the word entertaining,
but it's enjoyable. It's comforting and it's edifying
to those who believe. And in our regular church services
at 13th Street, we sing, we enjoy special music, we have guest
preachers. But I do not consider myself
an entertainer, nor am I in the entertainment business. I am
first and foremost a preacher of the Word of God. I'm a pastor
and a teacher. And on television, I only have
30 minutes to teach a prepared message, develop the points,
and give scriptural references. So I use all the time for this
most important effort, the preaching of the Word of God. I think that
answers it. All right, question two. What's
the purpose of your television ministry? Why are we staying
on the air? Costing a lot of money. You're
giving. The differences between our program
and the others which you noted in your opening remarks is one
of the prime reasons I stay on television. We're different. The truth of God, His glory and
His sovereignty, the truth about salvation, worship and faith
in Christ, and the truth about sin, redemption and life eternal
must be preached. And these are solemn and serious
issues which are not being addressed by today's television preachers.
Paul wrote, O the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and
the knowledge of God, where is any depth, wisdom, or knowledge
of God in the average sermon today? All right, the third question. Do you consider yourself? No.
This is the third question. Yes. flash and style to compete
with. With so much flash and style
to compete with, how do you expect to attract viewers without a
little bit of Hollywood? My answer is this. You would
probably be amazed at the silent majority out there who are weary
of Hollywood, who are weary of emotionalism, who are weary of
entertainment and con games in the name of God. They love and
respect the Word of God and they want some answers to their questions
about our true relationship with the living God. A hungry man
cares little about the style and flair of the vessel if there's
food in it. You understand his question?
How do you expect to attract viewers if you don't put on a
little show? A hungry man cares little about the style and flair
of the vessel if there's food in it. Doctors do not have to
entertain patients who are in need. So let the preachers of today
attend to their father's business and the entertainers to their
business. All right, question four. Do you consider yourself
an evangelist? Every true preacher is an evangelist
in the sense that evangelism is a zealous effort to spread
the gospel. That's what evangelism is, to
spread the gospel. Every preacher is an evangelist.
The Scripture exhorts the preacher to do the work of an evangelist.
I want those to whom I preach to know God and to know His Word,
and this motivates me to preach to everyone who will hear. But
today evangelism, like all good things, has fallen into covetous
evil hands. That's what's sad. Question five. How long has your ministry been
conducted in this style and do you have any plans to change
any aspect of your Sunday television program? Answer. Be still and know that I am God. God is spirit, and those who
worship Him worship Him in spirit and truth. Worship, prayer, and
preaching to me is serious heart business, and I have no plans
to change, and I have no plans to incorporate fleshly tactics
to appeal to those who wish to play at such an awesome, awesome
responsibility. Our message will always determine
our methods. You wonder why these men do what
they do, the methods they use? Their message dictates their
method. Our message will always determine our methods, and both
must glorify God. The next question. Most television
ministries rely heavily on the strong personal appeal of the
ministers themselves. To the people that watch your
broadcast, you may be many things, but I would venture to say that
few would describe you as having a charismatic personality. Do you find this a handicap? Just a drab? Here's my answer. God uses me. God uses men to teach, lead,
and inspire others to believe His Word, love His Son, and obey
His will. But those whom He truly uses
never forget that they are only men. And they are content to be servants
of God who live simple lives, coveting no man's silver or gold,
and they point others to God, not to themselves. I am truly
happy where I am doing what I do, and I have no ambition to move
up the ladder. Actually, the absence of charisma
and fanfare helps me to build the type of ministry I really
desire, that of ministering to people who are interested in
knowing God. not in knowing how I met my wife or where we shop
for groceries. That's what I'm interested in,
aren't you? Question 7. It seems that followers of some
ministries believe their leaders can do no wrong. How can people
support a ministry and not unduly glorify the minister? Answer. Except in certain gifts, more
time to study and pray, and the responsibility of leading the
church, wherein does a minister differ from any other believer? Is that not true? Except, what
I'm saying, except he said this, how do you support a ministry
and not unduly glorify the ministry? Well, except in certain gifts.
more time to study and pray, because you provide that time
for me, and the responsibility to lead the church, where might
it be any different from you? You see, they are all, ministers and people,
children of God. We're all members of the body
of Jesus Christ. We're all heirs of eternal life.
And when pastor and people understand who we are, who God is, and what
grace and mercy And what grace and mercy is in Jesus Christ,
we'll now have no problem giving God the glory. It belongs only
to Him. The true ministers can and will
discourage any unholy attention and recognition because holy
and reverent is His name. I believe I got a good answer
there. All right, question eight. Do you think the adoration of
followers, speaking of these fellows, that he mentioned, do
you think the adoration of followers in some way contributes to the
downfall of ministers? In other words, does power go
to their heads? Answer, no question about it.
No question about it. Even the Apostle Paul was given
a thorn in the flesh lest he be exalted above measure through
the abundance of revelations. Yet, I contend that a true minister
of the gospel knows that he's what he is by the grace of God,
and the years will bring a more humble spirit, not pride of heart. He is, and will remain, in his
own mind, less than the least of all the saints, if he's a
true minister. One of the biggest criticisms
of today's television evangelists is the constant appeal for money.
This is another question, question nine. Just about the only time
you request money is when you offer to send a cassette recording
of your message and then you only ask for two dollars to cover
the cost of making the cassette. Why don't your viewers here more
pleased to support your ministry? I answer, Abraham said, I have
lifted my hand to God, the possessor of heaven and earth. And Paul
said, by God shall supply all your needs. This is what I've
done, and this is what I really believe. When God purposes, God
will provide. To say that we're ambassadors
of Jesus Christ, that we believe in His power and His care, and
then to beg for support and sell trinkets and conduct religious,
ridiculous, money-raising telethons, is not only a denial of the very
principle of faith, but a denial of the power of God Almighty.
Our needs are known to God, and if we're His service, doing His
work, He will impress His people to support us without carnal,
disgraceful begging. That's strong, but that's true. Number ten, is your ministry
financially independent? Answer, our church ministry Our
missionaries, our tape ministry, our television program are supported
by our congregation and friends in the television audience. We
have never been late with an obligation in 37 years. Isn't that right, Russell? Never
been late paying a bill. What we do not have, we do not
spend. A complete financial statement
is made available to all our members every month. All right, the 11th question,
do you have any plans for expanding your ministry, any satellite
dishes in your future? Answer, we have the program on
Channel 13, one in the West Indies and two radio programs. I'll
be happy to extend our coverage, but only if the means are supplied. That's not lack of faith, that's
just acting on what God gives us. Don't spend what you don't
have. That's exactly right. All right, question 12. In the
light of all these recent scandals, is it tougher to be a minister
today? Answer. There's nothing new under
the sun. The only difference is that television
has made what used to be local secrets public knowledge. There
have always been false preachers, dishonest preachers, and religious
charlatans. Most preachers are the poorest
credit risk, and this is embarrassing to those who are genuine. Yet,
yes, it is tough to be identified with most preachers and religious
people, for they are not sincerely interested in the glory of the
living God, they are interested in themselves. Have you seen any signs that
the followers of preachers and ministries are having a tougher
time today? Answer, not the ministers and
people who hold to the old landmarks of the Word of God and the gospel
of God's glory in Christ Jesus. We have the same theology and
gospel as Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, and Charles
God is the same, sin is the same, the gospel has not changed nor
has the attitude of men. Some believe the word of God
and others do not. But in answer to your question,
yes, the promoters and religious professionals are having a tougher
time. Who said you can fool all the people some of the time and
some of the people all the time, but not all the people all the
time? fleshly emotion, excitement, entertainment, even with a religious
atmosphere, will not comfort the soul and heart. And sooner
or later, people will weary of this outward form and folly,
and they'll either quit or seek the truth of God. Question 14. Now listen to this
one carefully. There's a lot of talk these days
about the need for everyone to live together and be more tolerant
of differences of opinion and beliefs. Christians in particular,
the so-called fundamentalists, have been criticized for being
intolerant of other people's religious beliefs. Some denominations,
like the Universalists and the Unitarians, for example, have
made an effort to be more open to differences. Why hasn't this
kind of thinking caught on with mainstream Christianity? Why
don't you get along with everybody? Answer. Two cannot walk together
except they be agreed. The Democrats and Republicans
have not yet merged into one party. How can you expect those
whose spiritual convictions are worlds apart to present a united
front? The men who crucified Christ
were all very religious, very moral, and claimed to do what
they did in the name of God. And the blood of martyrs and
the blood of the apostles was all spilled at the hands of religious
leaders. And the only thing that prevents
such persecution today are the laws of our land. Truth and error
can never walk together, and to attempt to do so is hypocrisy. It cannot walk together. Question
15. There seems to be more and more
interest in non-traditional religions. The New Age movement has gained
a great deal of momentum in the last few years. Does the popularity
of these new beliefs, these new religions, signal a failure of
the traditional church? Answer, Jesus Christ said, I
will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it. His church, which is his body,
shall never fail, and his local churches which believe his word
and worship only him shall never perish from the earth." All men
on earth have some sort of religion. Religion comes and goes, it flourishes
and diminishes, it rises and falls, but the one Lord, one
faith, one mediator, one God and Father never changes. From
righteous Abel to this day, all believers continue in the faith
once for all delivered to the saints. And new trends, new religion,
and new theology has no effect on the unchanging truth of God.
It's the same. Sixteen. Well, does the traditional
institutional church have any significant shortcomings? He
would call this a traditional institutional church. Does it
have any shortcomings? He would call all churches this
right here. My answer, yes. Do they have any shortcomings?
Yes. And the problem was summed up by our Lord in Revelation
2-4. Thou hast left thy first love.
Christ is our first love. His word, His gospel, His glory. And the church today has compromised
all three. His word, His gospel, and His
glory in an effort to please men gain numbers and win converts
to their particular brand of religion, they have compromised
the gospel. The apostles preached the Word
of God. They exalted Jesus Christ as
the only Redeemer and called men to faith in Him. They would
not tolerate error or compromise, particularly in regard to the
person and work of Christ. Paul said, if any man preach
any other gospel than the gospel of Christ, let him be accursed.
And all the problems modern churches encounter can be charged to the
fact that they're preaching another gospel, another Jesus, and another
spirit. And when a church leaves the
gospel in its first love, Jesus Christ, it has no cause to exist. That's true. All right, question
17. This will be interesting, too.
The word fundamentalist. is used by the media frequently
and usually in a not so flattering context. What is the proper definition
of fundamentalist? What is a fundamentalist? Now
listen. Fundamental. Fundamental means
that which is basic. Fundamental means that which
is essential and foundational. That's fundamental. There are
the fundamental rules of art. They're the fundamental rules
of science and many other things. Faith has its fundamentals, the chief of which is the Word
of God. This is our fundamental, the
Word of God. The Bible is the inerrant, verbally inspired Word
of the living God, and it's the only foundation for true faith. To put question marks on the
inspiration of the Word of God is to destroy any sure foundation
of faith. For all that we know about God
is learned from His Word and from the incarnation of God in
the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. All other information
is imaginary and hearsay. Though the heavens declare the
glory and power of God, only by His inspired Word can we gain
any knowledge of His character, His will, and His purpose in
redemption through Christ. Yes, here's the fundamentals.
So his next question is, are you a fundamentalist? And my
answer, are you a fundamentalist? In the sense of the word, as
I've stated above, I am a fundamentalist, in that this is the fundamental,
foundational, basic essentials of faith, the word. See that
John? I am a fundamentalist. I do not wish to be identified
with most who call themselves fundamentalists today, because
they claim to believe the Word of God, and yet they deny so
much of what is written therein. They deny God's sovereignty.
They deny His covenant grace. They deny His effectual atonement.
They abuse and misuse the gifts of the Spirit. They make their
pulpits platforms for politics. patriotism, personal gain, and
glory. And they have substituted public
decision for regeneration, emotionalism for worship, and church membership
for conversion. And in that sense, I am not a
fundamentalist. All right, question 19 and 20,
I combine because it's a question that has to do with charity.
He said, even rock and roll bands have performed some of the most
charitable, unselfish acts of humanity in this decade. Is the
church doing everything it can to help that situation? Charity,
humanitarian works. In larger cities, there have
been outcry for better housing. Beggars and others seeking handouts. Do you think Christians should
be more directly involved in problems such as caring for the
homeless and the hungry? Or is it better left to professionals? All right, my answer. The church's greater responsibility
is to minister to the spiritual needs of people. That's our calling. The spiritual needs of people.
And at the same time, to care for the material needs of the
local congregation. The local congregation. other
missionary efforts and groups of believers around the world.
That's our first responsibility, spiritual needs and the material
needs of this congregation and other congregations and these
preachers and other preachers. Also, as God enables the local
church, they will share what they have with all who are in
need. Our church works with the local social services organizations. We send a check each month to
the government social services to be used as they think best
for those in need. We do that every month. We've
done it for years. We also have an account at a local grocery
to help those in need who come by our office. Believers are
generous people, and they delight to help the less fortunate personally,
privately, and publicly through the local church. How can a man
be called a Christian who is not generous to others? Any person
in need, spiritually or materially, ought to be our concern and will
be our concern. But I can say the lavish buildings
and extravagant lifestyles of many churches and televangelists
is the denial of what they claim to believe. Question 21. Television is undoubtedly a very
powerful medium. which can deliver messages literally
throughout the world. But what happens when the television
viewer needs personal help? You don't have to be homeless
to be in some kind of need for help. How can a ministry thousands
of miles away sit down with a cup of coffee with someone? Is there
a danger in the faithful becoming too faithful to television ministries? My answer The Lord ordained the
local church to meet the needs of his people on earth. The local
church cannot be replaced by television churches or television
pastors. The local churches, under the
leadership of pastors, deacons, and elders, preach the gospel,
teach the word of God, train ministers, minister to the needs
of the church family, and send forth missionaries to establish
other local churches. The vast organizations and programs
promoted by television evangelists bring little or no help to the
individual. Most of their time is spent on
promotion, money raising, building empires, which will crumble when
the leader dies or errs. There is no substitute for the
local church ordained of God for our spiritual well-being.
We need to strengthen the local church. All right, question 22. How big can a church become before
it is failing to meet the needs of its members? How can the large
church satisfy every single member? Now, listen to this. He seems to put a question mark
on, he's asking rather, why can a church get too large? The church
at Jerusalem had over 5,000 members shortly after Pentecost. They
didn't have one pastor. They had many elders who ministered
to the people. They were probably meeting in
many different places and being taught by many different men.
And in a church, in a local church, large or small, all the brethren,
all the people exhort, encourage, and minister to one another.
That's the secret. Minister to one another. Help
one another. Encourage one another. Encourage one another in psalms
and hymns and spiritual songs. Doesn't matter about the size.
All right, last question. As we talked before, public confidence
in television evangelists is at an all-time low. Many people
don't know who or what to believe. Any advice for those people who
are trying to figure out what's true and what's a lie? Who's
for real and who's the next national embarrassment? Here's my answer. John the Apostle
tells us to try the spirits or preachers who speak in the name
of God. How are they to be tried? By
the word of God. Particularly in reference to
their message concerning the Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? What did he do? Why did he do
what he did? And where is he now? It says
in 1 John 2, 22, who is a liar, but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ. He is an antichrist that denieth
the Father and the Son. The Bereans were called noble
because even after hearing the apostles, they went home and
searched the scriptures to see if these things be so. I don't
mean to oversimplify this problem, but the Word of God is still
our only rule of faith and practice. And if preachers speak not according
to God's word, there's no light in them. The Bible, Old and New
Testament, is one book with one message, redemption by God's
grace through the person and work of the Messiah, the Lord
Jesus Christ. The Old Testament declares that
he is coming. The four gospels declare that
he has come. And the epistles declare that
he will return. And they teach the attitude of
faith and lifestyle of those who really believe him and await
his return. Just outstanding. They deal with
things that need to be dealt with. All right, Mike, come lead
us in a closing here.

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